Need Advice for Increasing Megapixels & Changing Lens

[BPet]

I have a Foscam FI9805 1.3MP pointed at the Cul De Sac in the front of our house. I like the FOV and it works pretty well with Blue Iris catching cars coming into the area and people walking around. We have had some break-ins in the area and I would like the camera to be able to take a clear picture of any the perpetrators should they eventually be caught. My issue is that the detail is not very sharp when I zoom in to look at people. The distance to the sidewalk is 30ft and to the center of the street is 70ft. I looked at higher resolution cameras, like the 4MP IP4M-1025E(which I think is made by Dahua), but the lens is 2.8mm and my current lens is 4mm. I don't want to increase my FOV because it will just be blocked by trees. If I get a 4MP camera and replace the lens with a 4mm or similar, would I get much more detailed images of people/cars etc. and maintain a similar FOV? Thanks in advance for any suggestions

 

[bp2008]

4MP @ 4mm would certainly do better, at least during the day, but to be really effective you will need more zoom.

There is a calculator which I think you would find extremely useful: IPVM Camera Calculator V3

You can just use the "Generic Camera" model and fill in specs: "Resolution", "Focal Length", and "Imager" then put different values for "Distance" and it will show you roughly what kind of image quality to expect at that distance. Try to aim for 100 pixels per foot to be able to capture a face really well. You'll see that not even a 4MP camera with 4mm lens will be close to adequate at 70 feet (more like 20-25 feet). You will need a lot more zoom. Also, though this calculator can't really show it, higher resolution is mostly useful only when there is a whole lot of light. At night you are probably better off with a 2MP starlight camera than a 4 or 8 MP.

Here are two cameras I could wholeheartedly suggest:

IPC-HFW5231E-Z5 (7mm~35mm varifocal lens == 35°~12° horizontal FOV)
Dahua Starlight Varifocal Bullet Z5 7-35mm (IPC-HFW5231E-Z5)

IPC-HFW5231E-Z5 (5.3mm~64mm varifocal lens == 59°~5° horizontal FOV)
Dahua Starlight Varifocal Bullet Z12 5.3-64mm (IPC-HFW5231E-Z12)

The Z12 model has a much larger zoom range, and can go both significantly wider than the Z5 and significantly narrower. Of course the problem with zooming in a long way is that you don't cover much area anymore, so you may find you want several cameras.

 

[mat200]

Welcome BPet

Bp2008 as some good suggestions, definitely do consider multiple cameras for front of the house coverage.

It's easy to get swamped with information here, so I wanted to share some notes with you

Please check out @giomania 's notes:
Dahua Starlight Varifocal Turret (IPC-HDW5231R-Z)

I have also made notes which are a summary of a lot of the reading I've been doing here,:
Looking for some advice and direction!

Have fun joining us here.

 

[BPet]

4MP @ 4mm would certainly do better, at least during the day, but to be really effective you will need more zoom.

There is a calculator which I think you would find extremely useful: IPVM Camera Calculator V3

You can just use the "Generic Camera" model and fill in specs: "Resolution", "Focal Length", and "Imager" then put different values for "Distance" and it will show you roughly what kind of image quality to expect at that distance. Try to aim for 100 pixels per foot to be able to capture a face really well. You'll see that not even a 4MP camera with 4mm lens will be close to adequate at 70 feet (more like 20-25 feet). You will need a lot more zoom. Also, though this calculator can't really show it, higher resolution is mostly useful only when there is a whole lot of light. At night you are probably better off with a 2MP starlight camera than a 4 or 8 MP.

Here are two cameras I could wholeheartedly suggest:

IPC-HFW5231E-Z5 (7mm~35mm varifocal lens == 35°~12° horizontal FOV)
Dahua Starlight Varifocal Bullet Z5 7-35mm (IPC-HFW5231E-Z5)

IPC-HFW5231E-Z5 (5.3mm~64mm varifocal lens == 59°~5° horizontal FOV)
Dahua Starlight Varifocal Bullet Z12 5.3-64mm (IPC-HFW5231E-Z12)

The Z12 model has a much larger zoom range, and can go both significantly wider than the Z5 and significantly narrower. Of course the problem with zooming in a long way is that you don't cover much area anymore, so you may find you want several cameras.

Since I am looking for good day and night quality, I will definitely consider the 2MP instead of the 4MP. The specs on the Z5 indicate that LED range is 100M and the Z12 indicates 200M. My current 9805 indicates 30M - which turns out to be fine for viewing the scene, but not nearly good enough for detail at a distance of 50-70ft. Do you think either the Z5 or the Z12 would really be good at 50-70ft at night? Based on the specs it would seem that LEDs at that distance would be awesome, if the cams can really do 300 and 600 ft ?

 

[BPet]

Welcome BPet

Bp2008 as some good suggestions, definitely do consider multiple cameras for front of the house coverage.

It's easy to get swamped with information here, so I wanted to share some notes with you

Please check out @giomania 's notes:
Dahua Starlight Varifocal Turret (IPC-HDW5231R-Z)

I have also made notes which are a summary of a lot of the reading I've been doing here,:
Looking for some advice and direction!

Have fun joining us here.

Thanks! I will definitely read up on those links

 

[bp2008]

My Z5 does a great job at 70-100ft though I have a pretty big IR illuminator pointed the same direction. http://a.co/a74mnIf

This guy is about 70 ft away and the camera is at about the middle of its zoom range.

 

[BPet]

My Z5 does a great job at 70-100ft though I have a pretty big IR illuminator pointed the same direction. http://a.co/a74mnIf

This guy is about 70 ft away and the camera is at about the middle of its zoom range.

Thanks for the pic...if that was a person, I wonder if the pixels on the face would be blended or if it would be discernible as to exactly who the person it? The tree on the right that is further than the deer looks super crisp, but I guess because the deer does not have much contrast on its head, its a little harder to see detail? Is it possible that the Illuminator is causing to much light at 70ft and washing out the dears head, or is the detail much less when Illuminator is turned off? Looks like it may make sense for me to get an illuminator as well - for $35, it is hard to pass up...is that illuminator reliable and have you had it a while? Thank you so much for all of your help with this!!

 

[mat200]

Thanks for the pic...if that was a person, I wonder if the pixels on the face would be blended or if it would be discernible as to exactly who the person it? The tree on the right that is further than the deer looks super crisp, but I guess because the deer does not have much contrast on its head, its a little harder to see detail? Is it possible that the Illuminator is causing to much light at 70ft and washing out the dears head, or is the detail much less when Illuminator is turned off? Looks like it may make sense for me to get an illuminator as well - for $35, it is hard to pass up...is that illuminator reliable and have you had it a while? Thank you so much for all of your help with this!!

Hi BPet,

If your street has enough light you maybe able to keep the starlight camera in color mode and get some really good images at night.

Also calculated what you need for a 2MP / 1080p camera to meet 100 ppf ID spec at that distance

At 14 degrees horizontal FOV a 2MP / 1080p camera will give you an ID distance of 78.6 feet.

So you want to pick the varifocal camera which can hit that tight FOV.

 

[BPet]

Thanks mat200! When I look it up on the IPVM calculator, it looks like I am getting 86ft horizontal currently (assuming 1/2.5 sensor). Looks like at 14 degrees, I will only get approx. 20ft horizontal viewing - which I guess is the age old dilemma: If I want to cover most of the cul de sac, I would need 4 or 5 cameras to get a high ppf image at that distance.

My initial thought is that for security purposes, and providing something to the Police that can be actionable, I would need to cover the entire cul-de-sac so that I can see people walking and trying the door handles of the cars etc., but it seems like it is going to get very expensive to come up with a solution that will give ID type detail for such a large area.

As an alternative, I am going to go with the Dahua IPC-HFW5231E-Z12 and use it for a license plate camera and stick with my existing camera for the overall large view.

 

[mat200]

Thanks mat200! When I look it up on the IPVM calculator, it looks like I am getting 86ft horizontal currently (assuming 1/2.5 sensor). Looks like at 14 degrees, I will only get approx. 20ft horizontal viewing - which I guess is the age old dilemma: If I want to cover most of the cul de sac, I would need 4 or 5 cameras to get a high ppf image at that distance.

My initial thought is that for security purposes, and providing something to the Police that can be actionable, I would need to cover the entire cul-de-sac so that I can see people walking and trying the door handles of the cars etc., but it seems like it is going to get very expensive to come up with a solution that will give ID type detail for such a large area.

As an alternative, I am going to go with the Dahua IPC-HFW5231E-Z12 and use it for a license plate camera and stick with my existing camera for the overall large view.

Hi BPet,

For a 2MP camera at 100 ppf spec the horizontal view will be 19.2 feet. Yes, about 20 feet.

Indeed, it does surprise a lot of people once you do the math on this.

Yes, need more cameras - suggest attempting to cover the choke point somehow with a good zoom, and an over all view for what is going on, as well as a potential LPR - wow that quickly become 3 cameras..