Network cabling issues for POE cameras

[Nanookofthenorth]

I keep experiencing issues when making a cable over approximately 50 feet. I'm not sure if it is the distance, the connectors, or something else. I test the cable after making them and they test correctly for the pin out. Cable is UTP 4PR 24AWG Cat5e. The last one I tried that would not recognize the camera is 58 feet in length. Since I don't carry network ninja credentials, what am I missing? Is there a better cable to use?

 

[fenderman]

What brand of cable are you using? Is it solid copper or copper clad aluminum? What kind of camera? Are you using poe? does the camera get power? Does the camera test fine with shorter cable and or premade cable?

 

[Nanookofthenorth]

What brand of cable are you using?

Premier Elite 100 UTP 24AWGx4P

Is it solid copper or copper clad aluminum?

Not sure, looks and behaves like solid copper. Product code TUR2404E03
Style: CMR

What kind of camera?

Hikvision and please forgive me . . . .Foscrap (lesson learned). Same issue with any of the cameras.

Are you using poe?

Yes

does the camera get power?

Yes

Does the camera test fine with shorter cable and or premade cable?

Yes

I have one of my cameras working fine with a 40' custom cable, although it was slow to sync the first time. I'm due for another spool of cable so please recommend what to use and a source.

 

[nayr]

cat6 is minimum for new installs IMHO; having said that it sounds like you either have the wrong ends or are not getting good connections.. are you trying to put cat6 ends on cat5 cable? Or ends for solid on stranded? That wont make a very tight connection.

edit:
This is the cable I suggest: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10234&cs_id=1023403&p_id=11438&seq=1&format=2

 

[icerabbit]

Could it be something to do with the power being sent over or required by the camera? if it pins out fine, it sounds like a power drop or resistance issue ... 50ft cutoff. 40 works, over 50 doesn't.

I have gone through multiple boxes of monoprice item 8103 including 100+ & 150ft+ POE runs. A bit lower spec and lesser protective jacket, than what nayr linked, but still code compliant as in solid copper in wall rated etc. Not disagreeing with the recommendation better is better, just a bit more budget friendly.

On second thought, a poor connection could I guess pin out fine, but not give a good power or data connection. I always double check mine before crimping down and make sure the little wire guide is inserted all the way too, as I've seen failed crimps,when it isn't, so the wire can be out of center just a bit on one or more, and the crimped pins don't all connect.

 

[nayr]

as long as its solid cat6 550MHz you really cant go wrong; just avoid any cat5, stranded, and anything clad.. if you can afford better shielding then its worth it.. if its exposed to the elements it needs to be outdoor rated and grounded properly.. when using PoE having a heaver gauge of cat6 with solid strands really helps deliver power.. Wait until you start running PoE+ Devices that can pull 30-40w and you'll be glad you ran solid cat6

I suspect even 12v injected should make it further than 50ft before dropping so low the device does not boot up properly... make sure your cables dont run parallel to any power lines or else it needs to be shielded and grounded as well.

 

[icerabbit]

http://www.2mcctv.com/blog/2011_11_17-cctv-power-supply-distance-cables/ shows a few power - distance charts along my line of thinking (proper pins, lack of power), but that's all I know. Knock on wood I've always done good within rated specs and quality cable.

 

[Nanookofthenorth]

Well, my next spool is cat6. Just can't believe a 50 foot cable doesn't work. I'm confident that the connections are tight. So, does the pin out assignment matter? Straight-through or cross-over? Can the POE switch be suspect? Just want to make sure all the basics are correct since the problem is from the custom cables.

 

[nayr]

Always straight through; forget about cross over cables.. you'll never use one of those again in your life (All Gigabit ports should be able to auto-cross over if needed)..

Your using a PoE switch? So its standard 48v PoE which should have no problem with 50ft of cable even on cat5.. what kind of camera is it? Do you know how much power it draws? Its not a PoE+ camera is it?

 

[Nanookofthenorth]

The cameras are Hikvision DS-2CD2032-I. I get the same issue with the Foscam, although I have the Foscam running on the 40' cable no problem. Yes to POE switch.

 

[nayr]

well you say a basic tester verifies pinout and continuity; so that means its unlikely the cable its self is damaged and there is some sort of connection being made.. yank on your ethernet ends nice and firmly and make sure they dont come out.. look at it head on and make sure all the wires were pushed all the way forwards and the blades are fully depressed.

You might try another switch port just to make sure you dont have a bad one.. Is your device getting power but no network? No power at all? Can you try powering it directly and see if it gets network?

 

[Shockwave199]

Having a tough time sourcing 100' direct burial pre-made that isn't a fortune. Anything out there? Would like to find at monoprice.

 

[nayr]

Here you go..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JEFA-Tech-Outdoor-Shielded-Cat5e-Assembly-100-Feet-TOUGHCable-Connectors-/221165934420?pt=US_Ethernet_Cables_RJ_45_8P8C_&hash=item337e845754
http://www.ebay.com/itm/100FT-Cat6e-Outdoor-Direct-Burial-Cable-cord-waterproof-Ethernet-network-Inwall-/171087619544?pt=US_Ethernet_Cables_RJ_45_8P8C_&hash=item27d59de5d8

 

[icerabbit]

Yes, it should work fine. It really is tough to say where the issue is. I've tested some hikvision poe cameras with pre-made 50 & 100ft cat5e lines (just strung about the house to a window). So it should work on cat 5e (just according to electrical code it has to be solid etc for permanent and in wall use).

When you make your own cable, I always suspect my crimping first. Human factor. It only needs to be a tiny bit off. I've got a couple of bad crimp tails in my low voltage tool bag as reminders what to avoid (first ones I did and some other anomaly)

Beyond that, there could be a bad section in one of the lines (internal wire damage, manufacturing issue) if you recrimp the same line twice and the issue persists. But you may have to look with an eagle eye or magnifier to see if for instance all the wire ends are to the end, they're all straight, if all pins are properly depressed and if/how the bi-pin thingy touches the cable. Can be an issue if the connector has a guide piece and it is not all the way to the end, and one of the wires is just slightly out of straight.

Then if you have more than one segment of line that doesn't work (as in, you're making a second and third); you have to start looking at specs, ports, voltage, ...

Swap ports. Swap cables. Maybe do a voltage test on the lines. ...

 

[Nanookofthenorth]

Nayr,

I tried this. Plug the custom 50'+ cable into a non POE port and added an ac adapter for power, ran the SADP utility from Hikvision and no luck=no data. When I put the custom cable back into a POE port (without the adapter of course) I get enough power to illuminate the IR LED's = good power. Checked the cables and the connections and they look beautiful.

Icewabbit,

Tried a couple of different custom cables and ran into the same issue.

I've got two 25' premade cables I can try coupling together. I'll have to run out and get a coupler to test. Is using a coupler a bad idea? Can we conclude that the cat5e I'm using is solid copper?

 

[Shockwave199]

I had trouble finding this thread. Please post issues in the appropriate forum. This really isn't a blue iris question.

 

[nayr]

I just had a nasty encounter with a bad jumper cable; made me think I had a bad run when it was the last foot.. replaced all the jumpers and it worked fine.

where is this cable running through? Is it coming close to any HID/Fluro ballasts? Power Mains? or do u just have it free out in open air in your room?

 

[icerabbit]

Is using a coupler a bad idea?
Can we conclude that the cat5e I'm using is solid copper?

You can use a coupler for testing purposes. Do not use it during a permanent install. Go end to end with a single cable (up to 300-ish feet).

Cannot conclude the 5e cable you have is solid as my search for premier elite utp cable came up empty.

I agree with Nayr, we should establish which what and where we're looking at.

Router - POE switch - cable - Camera

No SADP is a red flag. As SADP hasn't seen it, you can't have reprogrammed the IP to see it in any other software or verify additional operation.

Try a single short cable on a different port.

You said IR comes on ... any other blinking lights inside the enclosure?

Do you have a different camera to try? ... Maybe the cable is good and the camera isn't?

 

[Nanookofthenorth]

Nayr,
I currently have it on the floor in the office. No HID/Fluro ballasts, power mains, etc. that would be suspect.

Icerabbit,
I suspect the cable. So far, prefab cables work in all ports with all cameras. Long custom cables will not work with any cameras, both POE or with power supply added. Shorter custom cables work with all cameras. All POE ports are working. One thing that bothered me several weeks ago is the time it took to boot the Foscam camera on the 40' custom cable. It booted and works flawlessly, without issues, it just took much longer to sync up than a shorter cable, custom or prefab. I've also unplugged all cameras and tested with the single long custom cable, thinking that maybe the POE switch voltage wasn't robust enough for multiple cameras. No luck. POE switch works fine with one 40' custom cable, one shorter 30' custom cable, and a third camera with short custom cable. But, when I use the longer custom cable, I cannot get SAPD. The other cameras continue to work fine.

All custom cables are sourced from the same 1000' spool mentioned previously, and all connectors are from the same bulk supply. I would like to find a local prefab cat6 cable (50' or 100') and give it a try, but don't know where to find one. Any of the box stores sell them? And thanks to everyone for your help.

 

[nayr]

the only things left then are you have the wrong ends for your cable type, the connectors are not making good contact with the camera port or the bulk cable your using is badly defective... I dont think the PoE would matter if you cant establish a normal non-powered link; which should be easy on any cable under 300ft