New house set-up advice please

[Hai1]

Hello All,

I was advised to join this website by @mat200 to get advice on setting cameras outside my new house. I think the rectangular shape (3,600 sq ft under roof) of my house is pretty easy for set-up. As you can see there is a covered front and rear porch as well. The builder has already run power to all four corners of the house. He also ran CAT6 to the four corners and to the front door. CAT6 is run to all bedrooms, gym and office but I don't intend to put cameras inside the house. The CAT6 is run to the rooms for televisions/and or PC so I will not have to deal with wireless. I may put my current wireless Amcrest cam in the living room. If/when I have a child later, I will probably put one in the nursery but that is a bit down the road. Not sure if this matters but there are LED lights in the soffits of each side of the house. My house is out in the country on 11 acres of which I will be living on 3 acres. I have several Echo Shows and dots already if that matters.

What I would like to do is put floodlights and a security camera at each corner of the house. It would be really great to use a security camera that has integrated floodlights. I am not sure how many lumens is acceptable with floodlights. And I think a 3.6mm lens or higher for the security camera for the corners of the house. I think a 2.8mm lens would be acceptable for the front door. I ask you all to please advise me on the set-up and orientation. I would also appreciate recommendations of manufacturers with part numbers. I am new to all this and I want to go with POE. Since I am new to all this, I will need to know what hardware will I need for POE to power the cameras. I think a NVR system to record is the best route to go. Are there any cameras that have free cloud storage? I have read another IPcam contributor stating to not use the cloud but it seems convenient. I will also need to know mounting locations, mounting heights, turret vs. bullet camera and just about anything you all can think of. Again I am a noob to all this and appreciate your patience.

I have attached a picture of my house with where I am thinking the cameras should be with the direction they will face. Any advice and feedback is greatly appreciated. If you need more information, please do not hesitate to ask. Thank you all.

 

[mat200]

Hello All,

I was advised to join this website by mat2000 to get advice on setting cameras outside my new house. I think the rectangular shape (3,600 sq ft under roof) of my house is pretty easy for set-up. As you can see there is a covered front and rear porch as well. The builder has already run power to all four corners of the house. He also ran CAT6 to the four corners and to the front door. CAT6 is run to all bedrooms, gym and office but I don't intend to put cameras inside the house. The CAT6 is run to the rooms for televisions/and or PC so I will not have to deal with wireless. I may put my current wireless Amcrest cam in the living room. If/when I have a child later, I will probably put one in the nursery but that is a bit down the road. Not sure if this matters but there are LED lights in the soffits of each side of the house. My house is out in the country on 11 acres of which I will be living on 3 acres. I have several Echo Shows and dots already if that matters.

What I would like to do is put floodlights and a security camera at each corner of the house. It would be really great to use a security camera that has integrated floodlights. I am not sure how many lumens is acceptable with floodlights. And I think a 3.6mm lens or higher for the security camera for the corners of the house. I think a 2.8mm lens would be acceptable for the front door. I ask you all to please advise me on the set-up and orientation. I would also appreciate recommendations of manufacturers. I am new to all this and I want to go with POE. Since I am new to all this, I will need to know what hardware will I need for POE to power the cameras. I think a NVR system to record is the best route to go. Are there any cameras that have free cloud storage?

I have attached a picture of my house with where I am thinking the cameras should be with the direction they will face. Any advice and feedback is greatly appreciated. If you need more information, please do not hesitate to ask. Thank you all.

View attachment 72461

Good to see you join us here @Hai1

Do you have a sketch of what the front of the house will look like?

 

[Hai1]

Good to see you join us here @Hai1

Do you have a sketch of what the front of the house will look like?

Hello @mat200! Thank you for the quick response. Please see below. Hope this is what you need to advise me. Thank you.

 

[mat200]

Hello @mat200! Thank you for the quick response. Please see below. Hope this is what you need to advise me. Thank you.
View attachment 72469View attachment 72470View attachment 72471View attachment 72472

Hi @Hai1

This is what I would try out, here are approximate placements for cameras - remember to test out locations for exact placement - may need to move a foot or 2...

 

[sebastiantombs]

I throw my two cents in as someone who always over does things. I'd suggest two cameras on each corner of the house, facing back toward each other. This provides dual views, making identification much easier, and provides a view of the approach to each camera to catch people who might try to disable the cameras although that's pretty rare.

 

[samplenhold]

Welcome to the forum. Please read the Cliff Notes and check out the WIKI. There is a lot of info there for you.

Since you are here, then you have made the decision to do your camera system yourself. That will mean making all of the decisions, doing the install, and troubleshooting any issues that come up. That also means learning your recording system. IPCAMTALK is a great place to get info and help to do this.

@mat200 and @sebastiantombs have given you some good info.

Once you get some of the background, you will have to decide on how to interface with the cams. Basically the choices are a dedicated NVR, a PC running cam software, like Blue Iris, or if you have a NAS that has cam software using that. People on this forum, in general, have decided one over the other. Though I have seen posts of folks that use both an NVR and a software solution at the same time.

If you decide to go the NVR route, it is a good idea to choose all one brand of cams and NVR. Mixing brands will give you headaches. However, if you go the PC and BI route, then mixing brands of cams is fine. Personally I have gone with all Dahua cams. Currently have 19 cams recording spread over 11 different models. Have four more on the bench to install once the temps get a little cooler.

Once you have decided on the interface, you then need to decide on cams. In order to do that, you need to understand what you want from the system. And I mean specifically, not just 'I want to be able to monitor the house'. What does that mean specifically? Front door coverage? Back door coverage? Do you have your cars parked on the street or in the driveway? How are you going to get ethernet to those locations? So basically you need to start making a plan.

It is important to understand what views you will get from a specific location. You really should make a plan that states what you wish to accomplish by putting a cam in a specific location. I know it is easy to just say "put a cam at each corner in the soffit and one by the garage", but without stating exactly what you expect from a cam in that location, if you have an incident and don't get a good useable shot, you will be pissed. Or like the guy down the street that installed several Ring cams and got blurry video of the person pilfering through his truck. His wife said, basically "You spent a grand on those cams and you can't even tell if it is a guy or girl?"

It is good that you are asking for comments. I would advise you to not go and buy a bunch of cams and install them right away. Start out small. I suggest one varifocal cam, like the 5442 turret varifocal (HDW5442T-ZE aka T5442T-ZE). Place it on a test rig as described in the Cliff Notes and test your plan. Do not run wires or mount cam until you are happy with the proposed location. Here is my test rig:
Make sure you walk it at night.

Use that to critique your plan. See what the views look like from the locations you are thinking about. This can also help you decide on the specific cam for each location. It is important to understand what you want from each location/view and buy the appropriate cam for that. Fit-for-purpose cams are really the way to go.

As you begin your cam journey, you will gain experience and knowledge which will most probably cause you to change your plan. It did to me and countless others. The cam plan is ever evolving. New ideas will present themselves as you progress.

A few other things to consider:
Do not chase MP. Realize that the way to get good low light performance is to get as big a sensor as possible. Currently in the prosumer grade of cams, the Dahua 5442 series is the go to cam. It is 4MP on a 1/1.8" sensor. It gives great low light color performance. The 4K cams are generally on 1/2.8" sensors, with some on 1/1.8" sensors. But even on the 1/1.8" sensors, shoving 8MP on there gives each pixel less light, half the light of the 4MP cams on the same sensor. They look nice in daytime wide angle shots and well lit nighttime shots for marketing purposes, but in real life they are not good in low light and any movement of the subject will cause blur.

The wider the angle, the closer a perp has to be to the cam to get a useful face shot. Wide angle cams are fine for overview shots, but you need to have cams focused on the action areas to get good enough face shots to ID and convict.

Dome cams are not recommended for outdoors as they get quite dirty and rain beads up on the dome and makes it useless when wet. Also the IR can reflect off the dome and cause poor video. The plastic domes are susceptible to UV fogging over time. Stick with turrets or bullets for outdoor cams. Choosing a bullet or turret is mostly personal taste. Some like the bullets since they scream "Security Camera!" but others like the turrets since they tend to blend in more. It depends on whether or not you want people to notice your cams. Some folks believe that the obvious cams prevent theft. But I have seen countless videos of perps giving the finger to the cam as they do their dirty deeds. Some say the bullets give a little better depth of field than the turrets.

Good luck and hope this helps.

You have chosen a 3.6mm lens and you really have no data to say that this lens is the best for your situation. A varifocal cam can tell you what the proper fixed lens would be.

 

[Hai1]

Hi @Hai1

This is what I would try out, here are approximate placements for cameras - remember to test out locations for exact placement - may need to move a foot or 2...

Thank you @mat200 for the response. I think the CAT6 cables are run through the space above the soffits. Is it okay to mount the cameras on the soffits? I just spoke to the builder and he said it is too late to run or change cabling without calling in the electricians back in at an extra cost. I neglected to mention I have 2 sets of CAT6 to each corner and not just one.

I am not clear on your camera placement. Are the two cameras on the front corners facing toward the back of the house to cover the each side of the house? I don't see you showing any cameras at the back of the house to cover the back yard. Do you have any input on my floodlights question? Also, do you have any suggestions on camera brands and part numbers? Thanks again for the feedback and look forward to your response.

 

[bradner]

That's awesome that you have 2 CAT6 runs to each corner! But don't fret if that's still not enough as I use a couple POE splitters to turn one POE run into two and use a couple Unifi Flex 5 POE switches which turn one 65+watt POE run into 4 - 12W outputs (most POE cams use 8-12 watts - not PTZ ones).

I would stick to Dahua cameras only for performance and value. I'd only get cams with the larger 1/1.8" sensor too - the best light gathering at night. All cams look great during the day, the night shot separates them.

I searched for spotlight cams and have settled on these ones IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED . Review here. They are ok for a small area, I'd say 12 feet x 12 feet max'ish.

I'd also caution about 2.8mm cams as their field of view is so wide you won't have great details of people in it unless they are very close. 3.6mm is the widest I'd go myself, or even 6mm if you measure out the FOV that you want covered.

If you're going to be more actively involved in your camera system, maybe even consider a bigger PTZ for one of the house corners (or at the top peak for some height - but you don't likely have a cable run there yet), then you have the best of both - maneuverability and zoom options. But they run $400-700 USD - I have two of them. I live on acreage and love the practicality of a 25x PTZ for looking around the yard.

 

[Hai1]

Welcome to the forum. Please read the Cliff Notes and check out the WIKI. There is a lot of info there for you.

Since you are here, then you have made the decision to do your camera system yourself. That will mean making all of the decisions, doing the install, and troubleshooting any issues that come up. That also means learning your recording system. IPCAMTALK is a great place to get info and help to do this.

@mat200 and @sebastiantombs have given you some good info.

Once you get some of the background, you will have to decide on how to interface with the cams. Basically the choices are a dedicated NVR, a PC running cam software, like Blue Iris, or if you have a NAS that has cam software using that. People on this forum, in general, have decided one over the other. Though I have seen posts of folks that use both an NVR and a software solution at the same time.

If you decide to go the NVR route, it is a good idea to choose all one brand of cams and NVR. Mixing brands will give you headaches. However, if you go the PC and BI route, then mixing brands of cams is fine. Personally I have gone with all Dahua cams. Currently have 19 cams recording spread over 11 different models. Have four more on the bench to install once the temps get a little cooler.

Once you have decided on the interface, you then need to decide on cams. In order to do that, you need to understand what you want from the system. And I mean specifically, not just 'I want to be able to monitor the house'. What does that mean specifically? Front door coverage? Back door coverage? Do you have your cars parked on the street or in the driveway? How are you going to get ethernet to those locations? So basically you need to start making a plan.

It is important to understand what views you will get from a specific location. You really should make a plan that states what you wish to accomplish by putting a cam in a specific location. I know it is easy to just say "put a cam at each corner in the soffit and one by the garage", but without stating exactly what you expect from a cam in that location, if you have an incident and don't get a good useable shot, you will be pissed. Or like the guy down the street that installed several Ring cams and got blurry video of the person pilfering through his truck. His wife said, basically "You spent a grand on those cams and you can't even tell if it is a guy or girl?"

It is good that you are asking for comments. I would advise you to not go and buy a bunch of cams and install them right away. Start out small. I suggest one varifocal cam, like the 5442 turret varifocal (HDW5442T-ZE aka T5442T-ZE). Place it on a test rig as described in the Cliff Notes and test your plan. Do not run wires or mount cam until you are happy with the proposed location. Here is my test rig:
View attachment 72480 Make sure you walk it at night.

Use that to critique your plan. See what the views look like from the locations you are thinking about. This can also help you decide on the specific cam for each location. It is important to understand what you want from each location/view and buy the appropriate cam for that. Fit-for-purpose cams are really the way to go.

As you begin your cam journey, you will gain experience and knowledge which will most probably cause you to change your plan. It did to me and countless others. The cam plan is ever evolving. New ideas will present themselves as you progress.

A few other things to consider:
Do not chase MP. Realize that the way to get good low light performance is to get as big a sensor as possible. Currently in the prosumer grade of cams, the Dahua 5442 series is the go to cam. It is 4MP on a 1/1.8" sensor. It gives great low light color performance. The 4K cams are generally on 1/2.8" sensors, with some on 1/1.8" sensors. But even on the 1/1.8" sensors, shoving 8MP on there gives each pixel less light, half the light of the 4MP cams on the same sensor. They look nice in daytime wide angle shots and well lit nighttime shots for marketing purposes, but in real life they are not good in low light and any movement of the subject will cause blur.

The wider the angle, the closer a perp has to be to the cam to get a useful face shot. Wide angle cams are fine for overview shots, but you need to have cams focused on the action areas to get good enough face shots to ID and convict.

Dome cams are not recommended for outdoors as they get quite dirty and rain beads up on the dome and makes it useless when wet. Also the IR can reflect off the dome and cause poor video. The plastic domes are susceptible to UV fogging over time. Stick with turrets or bullets for outdoor cams. Choosing a bullet or turret is mostly personal taste. Some like the bullets since they scream "Security Camera!" but others like the turrets since they tend to blend in more. It depends on whether or not you want people to notice your cams. Some folks believe that the obvious cams prevent theft. But I have seen countless videos of perps giving the finger to the cam as they do their dirty deeds. Some say the bullets give a little better depth of field than the turrets.

Good luck and hope this helps.

You have chosen a 3.6mm lens and you really have no data to say that this lens is the best for your situation. A varifocal cam can tell you what the proper fixed lens would be.

@samplenhold Thank you for the feedback. My cars will be parked in the garage and as I mentioned my house is in the country and about 170 feet from the main dirt road. I also have a steel detached garage sitting to the right of the house which nothing electrical or ethernet is run to. I will have to deal with that later since I do not have CAT6 run there to my control center (office). One contributor on this site said do not go with wifi but I may have no choice at this point since the cables are run and my house sits on a cement slab so I cannot cost effectively run wires after the fact.

I am conflicted about the turret and bullet cams. I have heard positives and negatives both ways. I am thinking maybe bullets for the four corners and a turret for the front door. I am thinking the front door cam will get less exposure to the sun and rain due to it being under the covered porch.

Seeing the locations of my two CAT6 run to the four corners of my house and to the front door, I am fixed on that now and cannot change it since the wall construction is done. Do you agree with a four corner set-up facing in the directions in my picture?

I agree that Dahua seems to be a good and popular choice. I have an Amcrest wireless cam in my living room entertainment center and happy with the performance and phone app. If I am reading correctly is just rebranded Dahua.

Also any input on separate floodlights and/or security lights with integrated flood lights?

In the end, I would like a turn-key NVR to keep it simple. That said, do you have a recommendation for a NVR system with 4 cameras for the corners and one for the front door? If so, please give me a manufacturer and part number for a turn-key kit. Extra cameras are fine since they can be used as spares or used in another security system for the steel detached garage. Since I have two CAT 6 run to the front door, I can run two cameras at the front door. Thank you again for your input.

 

[Hai1]

That's awesome that you have 2 CAT6 runs to each corner! But don't fret if that's still not enough as I use a couple POE splitters to turn one POE run into two and use a couple Unifi Flex 5 POE switches which turn one 65+watt POE run into 4 - 12W outputs (most POE cams use 8-12 watts - not PTZ ones).

I would stick to Dahua cameras only for performance and value. I'd only get cams with the larger 1/1.8" sensor too - the best light gathering at night. All cams look great during the day, the night shot separates them.

I searched for spotlight cams and have settled on these ones IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED . Review here. They are ok for a small area, I'd say 12 feet x 12 feet max'ish.

I'd also caution about 2.8mm cams as their field of view is so wide you won't have great details of people in it unless they are very close. 3.6mm is the widest I'd go myself, or even 6mm if you measure out the FOV that you want covered.

If you're going to be more actively involved in your camera system, maybe even consider a bigger PTZ for one of the house corners (or at the top peak for some height - but you don't likely have a cable run there yet), then you have the best of both - maneuverability and zoom options. But they run $400-700 USD - I have two of them. I live on acreage and love the practicality of a 25x PTZ for looking around the yard.

Thanks for the feedback @bradner . @mat200 recommended on a different website I run two CAT6 to each corner since the house was still being built. The front door also has two CAT6 run to the front door sitting about 7.5 feet high. I don't know what I need the other one for but redundancy is not a bad thing. (I am prior military so redundancy is a general practice. "Two is one and one is none.")

Thank you for the lens size recommendation. If I am understanding you correctly, you are recommending 3.6mm minimum lens? If so I will stick to that size lens at minimum. Please see my response above. I would like a turn-key NVR to keep it simple. That said, do you have a recommendation for a NVR system with 4 cameras for the corners and one for the front door? Thank you.

 

[bradner]

@samplenhold Thank you for the feedback. My cars will be parked in the garage and as I mentioned my house is in the country and about 170 feet from the main dirt road. I also have a steel detached garage sitting to the right of the house which nothing electrical or ethernet is run to. I will have to deal with that later since I do not have CAT6 run there to my control center (office). One contributor on this site said do not go with wifi but I may have no choice at this point since the cables are run and my house sits on a cement slab so I cannot cost effectively run wires after the fact.

Sounds like we have very similar yards and setups. I had to get internet to my shop which was 100' from the house. I went with a $125 Unifi LocoM5 Nanostation setup a couple years ago (has been rock solid). I "beam" the internet (from an antenna inside my house but pointing to my shop) to a receiver mounted under the roof overhang at the shop. I run that to a switch and voila, I have another half dozen or so cams running off that switch and I can't even tell the difference from a hard wired setup.

Regarding turrets and bullets, I have a bunch of each and really the only difference I find is how they stand out to people. Turrets seem less noticeable and blend in better with the house where my bullets look more "obvious" as a camera. Really personal preference, I find the perform the same in inclement weather. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.... Bullets are a bit easier to aim though I find and maybe have more maneuverability in that sense.

BTW, when I started all this I thought I'd be happy with 4-6 cameras - I'm up to over 25 now LOL. Plan for future expansion....

 

[samplenhold]

In the end, I would like a turn-key NVR to keep it simple.

I believe that you mean a kit that contains an NVR and some cams. Most folks here will not recommend a kit for many good reasons. They usually come with OEM cams that are dumbed down versions of other cams. The cams are usually all the same, are wide angle like 2.8mm, and are large MP (like 8MP) on small sensors. While the still pics in daytime and well lit scenes at night give great marketing pics, this gives a poor performing cam in low light when motion is applied. Most perps work after dark and are always moving.

As far as flood lights, I really do not like the cam/light combos. I prefer to have appropriate light on all night long. Motion lighting is not good for cams as it takes the cams a few seconds to respond to the increase in light and usually miss things during this time.

If you do not make a good plan, test each location, and consider the information given to you here and what is available to you in the Cliff Notes and WIKI, you will be sorely disappointed when something happens and you do not have good video evidence.

 

[Hai1]

Sounds like we have very similar yards and setups. I had to get internet to my shop which was 100' from the house. I went with a $125 Unifi LocoM5 Nanostation setup a couple years ago (has been rock solid). I "beam" the internet (from an antenna inside my house but pointing to my shop) to a receiver mounted under the roof overhang at the shop. I run that to a switch and voila, I have another half dozen or so cams running off that switch and I can't even tell the difference from a hard wired setup.

Regarding turrets and bullets, I have a bunch of each and really the only difference I find is how they stand out to people. Turrets seem less noticeable and blend in better with the house where my bullets look more "obvious" as a camera. Really personal preference, I find the perform the same in inclement weather. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.... Bullets are a bit easier to aim though I find and maybe have more maneuverability in that sense.

BTW, when I started all this I thought I'd be happy with 4-6 cameras - I'm up to over 25 now LOL. Plan for future expansion....

@bradner Since we have similar situations. Call me lazy but I would rather duplicate a known good system than experiment and waste money. Can you please tell me how your outside cam system is set up with NVR, POE switches and any other POE boosters if needed and camera part numbers. My house is not expected to be finished until end of JAN 2021. Also I am mistaken, the sheet rock is not put up. The builder said he will get a price for me to bring the electrician back in to run an additional two CAT6 to the opposite side of the garage and two more CAT6 to the soffit for an overhead cam if needed. To reiterate, I will be living out in the country. My land is 11 acres and all my neighbors have at least 10 acres. Country dirt road and my driveway will be about 170 feet to the house and steel detached garage.

One more thing, I am using Simplisafe in my current house. Another IPC contributor said do not go with wireless home alarm systems. I can have the electrician hardwire for an house alarm system. Now that I think of it, I should probably ask him to run wires for smoke alarms. Where should I put the smoke alarms or is it safe to go wireless with those? I have had no problems with my Simplisafe wireless system and I doubt someone is going to use a wifi jammer to break into my house. The only thing worth of value will be my future family, guns and ammo. My area is safe and rural so not a lot of traffic besides residents of the area and a sheriff's shooting range down the road.

@bradner I would appreciate your help since you seem to have the same layout as me and you have a known good functional system. Thank you.

 

[bradner]

I don't use a NVR, I use Blue Iris on a dedicated PC. All my networking equipment is Ubiquiti (500W-24 port POE switch & a few of their smaller POE switches, USG-Pro4 router). My system takes/took a fair bit of hand-on setting up. All my Dahua cams are listed in my signature (can you see them listed there?). I'd get him to run some drops to your roof peaks front and back too - with your big property, you may want some decent PTZ cams there later on - or sooner.... Having a bit of height on those is better for further out viewing when you're zoomed in 25 - 40x.

If I started over, like you are - I'd only get the bigger sensor cams previously mentioned. Only 9? of my cams have the 1/1.8" sensors currently - those are all my most recent additions to my camera family.

 

[Hai1]

@bradner Is there a dealer on this reputable website that you could recommend to configure a system for me? I hear Empiretecandy has a good reputation here. True?

 

[sebastiantombs]

Yes, Andy is very helpful, reputable and has excellent pricing. He is not a magician though, so you do need to know exactly what your needs are in terms of light availability at night, focal lengths of lenses, total number of cameras and a bunch of other variables that are unique to each installation. That's why packaged systems are generally poor performers in the overwhelming number of cases.

Step one is to get one varifocal camera and test each location you think you want a camera to be located in. That will give you a lens size, night performance, mounting height and so on.

 

[looney2ns]

@bradner Is there a dealer on this reputable website that you could recommend to configure a system for me? I hear Empiretecandy has a good reputation here. True?

It appears you have not read the Wiki and the Cliff Notes. On a real computer, Study it, it will answer many of your questions.
If the sheet rock isn't up, you most likely could pull the extra cables your self with a helper, if the builder will let you. If the builder won't let you, there is always Sundays when there is no one around.....just sayin.

 

[Hai1]

It appears you have not read the Wiki and the Cliff Notes. On a real computer, Study it, it will answer many of your questions.
If the sheet rock isn't up, you most likely could pull the extra cables your self with a helper, if the builder will let you. If the builder won't let you, there is always Sundays when there is no one around.....just sayin.

I am in NC. The house is being built in FL.

 

[Shockwave199]

Have I missed this info?- do all the cat 6 cables you will use for cameras home run to one location and enter/drop all together bundled? This would add an option to have a poe nvr, where they just plug into the nvr without the need for an external switch.

 

[Hai1]

Have I missed this info?- do all the cat 6 cables you will use for cameras home run to one location and enter/drop all together bundled? This would add an option to have a poe nvr, where they just plug into the nvr without the need for an external switch.

@Shockwave199 Yes. Currently there are two CAT6 run to each corner of the house and two CAT6 to the front door. I plan on putting a video doorbell like a RING HD (currently have in the house I am living in) which also has power run for a doorbell. And yes, all cables will be run to my office which is the room to the right of the front door. Thanks for the input. I did read through all the cliffs notes and wikis but there is so much information I am inundated and sometimes confused.