New system recommendation with some weird parameters

Discussion in 'NVR's, DVR's & Computers' started by mangler, Feb 12, 2019 at 11:35 PM.

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  1. mangler

    mangler n3wb

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    Hello,

    I will be moving to a new property soon and would like to have it under surveillance before the official move in date. Here are the specifics:

    -Property is delimited by a 90' cliff on 2 sides, and access to the house is basically only down a 650' driveway.
    -I don't like buying cheap, but I have limited cash flow right now, so I would not mind a basic system to start (say a 8 channel NVR and a single camera pointed down the driveway) that I could expand at a later date.
    -I have laid some cat6 underground cable along the driveway, from the road gate to the house. Would be nice to have a camera at the gate. Problem is the run is obscenely long (700'+). Is there a mega POE that could reach that far? Or am i better running a little solar station at the gate?
    -So far from my very limited research I am leaning towards Dahua branded hardware, but I am willing to consider anything else if it offers better value.
    -I have a lot of wildlife on the property so having the flexibility to run excellent nightvision cams would be a plus (even if I am not getting them right now).
    -I am very power conscious, so I would like to avoid running a pc and additional hardware if i can.
    -Not expecting this to become a hobby, so anything with good motion detection with cameras that can make out faces and license plates is all I need.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019 at 11:41 PM
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  2. tangent

    tangent IPCT Contributor

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    Officially, Ethernet is limited to 100m (328'), and you'd need power and a switch every 100m. In practice it can go farther especially at slower link speeds.
    Dahua has a line of products that support what they call ePoE that are supposed to work over longer distances.
    A pair of long range wifi devices would also work.

    If you want a motorized gate opener solar is your best option for power at that distance.
     
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  3. tigerwillow1

    tigerwillow1 Getting comfortable

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    ePOE advertises up to 2624 feet. If you think you ever might go beyond 8 cameras, spend a few bucks more now for an nvr with more channels. It doesn't add a whole lot to the price. I'm on a few acres and started out with 2 cameras, then adding more one at a time. I'm up to 14 now, and buried about 1000' of conduit over a few years.
     
  4. tangent

    tangent IPCT Contributor

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    I'm not sure that I'd trust it at the full distance they claim
     
  5. mangler

    mangler n3wb

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    Thanks all, 2624ft is a LONG pull. What are the thoughts on NVR vs homebuilt? Ilike the fact I can get the POE integrated in the NVR, but I don't know if you can you get 48v or long range in an NVR? Also not sure if i will ever need 8 channels, let alone 16. But I am sure these words have been spoken quite a few times in an NVR upgrade thread, so I will take it into consideration :)

    Also while I like the simplicity, lower cost and likely lower power consumption of the standalone NVR option, I am worried about Chinese backdoors for something that may be connected to my network. Are the security and ease of connection/configuration improvements worth it when you go to a blu iris or Milestone machine with additional poe switch? Is there such a thing as flashing a proprietary NVR with open source software?
     
  6. tangent

    tangent IPCT Contributor

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    Are you connected to the power grid or are you "off the grid" with onsite solar / wind? The way you worded a few things left me wondering.
     
  7. mangler

    mangler n3wb

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    Connected to the grid. I'm just energy conscious (some less charitable people would call it cheap). To be fair electricity in our parts is outrageous. And this is going to be a 24/7 continuous load.
     
  8. looney2ns

    looney2ns IPCT Contributor

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    More about ePoe: ePoE
     
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  9. CCTVCam

    CCTVCam Pulling my weight

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    If you want to be energy conscious, ever thought about investing in a Tesla Powerwall & solar to supplement your grid use? OK capital investment up front, but in the longer term your cctv system and probably many other house systems could be running for free or subsidised, depending on the time of year.

    This is just a random google result, but it seems to suggest solar may pay in Ontario: Ontario homeowners to reap solar benefits in 5 years, association says

    Btw, if you don't want to go the solar route, then 1 of the biggest savings you can make is switching all your light bulbs over to LED. In my house that reduced every 60W bulb to 8w, with the 8W's looking nearer to 100's. More to the point though, change 10 bulbs and you have 600W vs 80W, albeit not all of the bulbs will be on all of the time. Can make similar savings with floodlights and outside lights.

    Beyond that, ensure your new property has a modern energy efficient boiler. Something at 94 or 95% efficiency can make a huge difference to your heating bills.

    All those savings, should offset the cost of CCTV power and pay for themselves in any event in the long run.
     
  10. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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    An efficient pc running blue iris or another vms will consume 30w or so on your low load. It is well worth the slightly higher cost.
    Dahua has several epoe switches so that technology is not limited to NVR's. The camera simply needs to support it.
    There are other similar devices that allow you to extend poe range.
     
  11. mangler

    mangler n3wb

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    30w does not sound bad. If I can keep the whole thing (with poe switches) around 60w continuous I'll be happy. I guess I could steal my wife's Optiplex 9020 and build her a new rig (she actually uses the computer, and sometimes it overheats anyway). What are the "real" minimum specs to run blue iris, zone minder or Milestone, with say 8 4Mp cameras at 15fps?
     
  12. mangler

    mangler n3wb

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    Powerwall still has a terrible return on investment with no incentives. Only makes sense if you are forced to go off-grid. If you are connected to the grid unless you REALLY need/want the outage convenience you are much better off with net metering. Garage is solar ready, but the pay for solar program ended before I could enter. Right now unless I install the panels myself the cost for a 10kw system is too high (30k). All my bulbs are LED, and water heater and furnace are both gas at 93% plus.

    BTW even for a modest power draw system (say 60w total, running continuously), that would still cost me about $0.25 a day, or $7.50 a month. I don't consider that negligible.The only thing that would consistently cost me more to run per unit is my fridges and freezers. And I want to remain a food chiller, so that's considered a necessity.

    More on topic, I would consider turning off some cameras when I am home (maybe with geofencing), if that was possible with current software and it had a proportional impact on the electrical consumption
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019 at 7:14 AM
  13. CCTVCam

    CCTVCam Pulling my weight

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    I potentially disagree on the powerwall. If you have spare electricity in the day, which most people who work do, then you get to use it at night to power your lights and appliances. That has the potential to pay for itself very quickly. If you stop and think about it, the average home uses very little energy during the day. In fact, if you're out at work, it's probably only going to be a couple of watts of power on clocks and on meters etc, and the timer on your heating system, and maybe the for a short period the pump if the heating kicks in, plus your fridge. Other than that, it all goes to waste, albeit you may get paid for feeding it back into the grid.

    Don't know how the US / Canadian system works but in the UK you get paid for what you generate irrespective of whether you feed it back in, so long as you are grid connected. So it might as well go into a battery instead of the grid.

    Even if you don't earn a tariff on your side of the pond unless it physically goes to the grid, then you still have to offset that against the electricity you'e going to use all evening and night and that's in addition to the day requirements above, lighting throughout the house, including security lights outside, several tv's @ several hundred watts each, thousands of watts if you cook electric, run aircon or heating from electric, washing machines, clothes dryers, hair dryers, shower pumps, and if you eventually get an electric car, thousands of watts charging the car overnight. The Powerwall can supply a good proportion of that depending on the net draw / gain during the day and dependant on the weather.
     
  14. mangler

    mangler n3wb

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    Well if you get paid for the electricty you produce AND get to do whatever you want with it, then maybe the Powerwall would be a good deal. That's a double dip, I'm afraid that currently getting paid for the electricity you feed back in is not an option in Ontario, let alone getting paid and charging your battery with the electricity! Best "deal" right now is net metering, with no credit after a year if you produced more than you used.

    At 8k Canadian installed, on top of the 30k for a 10kw array, the Powerwall just does not make sense. The time of use premium would have to be insane for it to be worthwhile for me, as offsetting high peak consumption with cheap off-peak saved electricty might start to make sense if say on peak was 5x as much as off peak. I seem to be on a set pricing at the new property, which makes it even less attractive.
     
  15. CCTVCam

    CCTVCam Pulling my weight

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    10KW is a big system. Average uk is around 16-20 panels = 4.5KW with Suntech 280W panels at around $204 per panel (for self installation) = $3,240 for a 4KW system (+ mounts, cables, invertor etc). Prices have really fallen. A 180W panel would have cost 3-4 times that a year or more ago. Might be worth re-checking prices at your end.

    Anyway, I diverge from CCTV, apologies. Fenderman gave your answer above if you don't want to self generate.