New to security cameras, have a prewired home

[greensleeves]

Hi everyone, like many others here I am shopping for a complete wired security system and am unsure where to start. I've looked around online at Home Depot, Best Buy, Costco, and Amazon and see a bunch of security packages being sold but not sure what's best.

Our home has two prewired camera locations (front and back) with power and some sort of network cabling already done. The network cables terminate in a closet. As you can tell, we are not technically abled but are willing to perform the DIY to setup and install our own camera system setup. Since we have little ones, our free time is limited so anything as simple as possible is preferred!

To take advantage of our house prewiring, it seems like we would need 1 data recorder and 2 decent cameras that can show license plates clearly.

We also are in the market for a motion sensor floodlight above the garage and have seen some cameras that come with a floodlight. Is this recommended?

Thanks in advance to anyone reading this!

 

[samplenhold]

Welcome to the forum!

You need to read the Cliff Notes and checkout the WIKI.

Starting out can be daunting. There are several paths you could take, some of which are:

1. Buy a pre-packaged system with an NVR and a few cams. There are many to choose from and none of them are very good. Most of these budget cams are stripped down models from either Dahua or Hikvision and will give poor low-light performance. Some of them load their own firmware, which can be inferior to the original firmware. The cams FOV will most likely be wide angle which can give a great marketing display but is generally not conducive to getting a good shot of a perp's face unless they are close to the cam. Lately the big marketing strategy is for these systems to be WIFI cams. WIFI cams are notoriously unreliable.

2. Buy an NVR and buy a few Dahua or Hikvision cams. Pick the models (prosumer) by what they can do, what job that cam will perform, and where they will be placed. The NVR should be the same brand as the cams you buy. Get one with enough channels for expansion and it would be best if it was POE.

3. Buy a PC to run BlueIris (BI), this replaces the NVR, and install that software. See the Cliff Notes on this. Again, pick good prosumer cams based on the criteria in 2 above. You will have to buy a POE switch to power the cams and get connectivity to the BI PC.

Stay away from the consumer cams like Arlo, Nest, Ring and anything WIFI. Again see the Cliff Notes as to why. Don't confuse high MP cams as having better images than lower MP cams. Right now at the prosumer price points the best cams are 4MP with 1/1.8" sensors. The 4K (8MP) cams, even if they are on the same 1/1.8" sensor, will have considerably poorer low-light performance.

Read and plan before you buy. It can be very frustrating to go out an spend cash on a bunch of cams and the like, set them up, have an event, and the cams did not give you a useable face shot.

Look for @SouthernYankee 's standard welcome to the forum.

If you decide to go with option 2, @bigredfish is very knowledgeable on NVRs.

As far as "...cameras that can show license plates clearly.", that will really depend on the view of where the cars are with respect to where the cams are. LPR is a special aspect of security cams and is both art and science. It can be very difficult to get consistent reads on plates, especially at night, unless the angle and distance is appropriate. Also, a cam for LPR should be dedicated for just that and nothing else.

There are a few good cams with LED lights included. Several folks here have had good things to say about them. White light is your friend at night. So putting more light out there will help.

You can post pictures of your locations and your IT closet if you need some help with choosing equipment.

Good luck and hope this helps.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Welcome to IPCT and the world of video surveillance lunatics.

The very first thing to do, before buying or looking at pre-packaged systems, is to look in the WiKi in the blue bar at the top of the page. Read the Cliff Notes in there, on a real computer. That will give you an idea of what, where and how to start selecting cameras for your own situation. There is no one system that fits every situation. License plate reading, especially at night, is a very specific camera setup and, at night, the only thing the camera will see is the license plate and head or tail lights. The only way that won't happen is if there is a LOT of ambient light from street and spot lights. Video surveillance is not what you see on TV and the movies, there is no one switching cameras for each shot and editing the final video for you.

 

[looney2ns]

See this attachment courtesy of @SouthernYankee

 

[greensleeves]

Thanks for the info everyone! So it looks like the big box solutions are a no go in terms of quality. We already have a Eufy doorbell camera at our front door.

We don't require the need to plate recognition, just throwing it out there in terms of camera quality options. We had a friend whose truck was stolen at night and the cameras were only able to capture their getaway. Since the LP was illuminated by the car, it overpowered any ability to read the plate so it looked like a big white rectangle.

I will look through the info provided! I like the idea of my posting pics of our prewire locations and the IT box. We may go with the NVR solution over purchasing another laptop so I will look into those, so that narrows it down to either Dahua or Hikvision. Is it true that the Made in China cameras secretly sends our info to China, or is that a huge conspiracy theory?

 

[sebastiantombs]

A laptop is not appropriate for running Blue Iris software. A used Dell Optiplex can be had for less money than a laptop and will easily run Blue Iris. If you're looking for cameras not made in China, bring your checkbook, well loaded, and don't expect state of the art performance. The trick to stopping cameras from "phoning home" is to have them on a separate network and deny them access to the internet. All of this is covered in the WiKi.

 

[greensleeves]

Thanks sebastiantombs for the info! I will go with putting the cameras on a separate network then.

I attached my crude paint drawings of where the prewire locations are outside the house and a picture of the IT box. The AT&T box is huge and takes up a ton of space in there. Please let me know thoughts regarding a typical NVR set up - I'm concerned there's not enough room in there. Thanks in advance!

 

[samplenhold]

Yup, your IT box looks a lot like mine. You are not going to get an NVR in there.

I originally tried to just use that space and then as I added IT stuff, I mounted switches on the wall. Ultimately I ended up putting an 8U rack in. I have three switches and two patch panels. One switch is for the main LAN that feeds the desktops and TVs in the house and has internet access. The other two are POE switches on a separate sub-net for IP cams only.

Original box


Current set up

 

[Holbs]

I have a strong dislike for those in-wall networking boxes. Sure, on paper they sure look beautiful and cool. But in reality, you out grow that box in a week. And now you have a rats nest of wires.
I'd rip that thing out and put in a 4' wall hung swing gate rack, myself (I prefer swing gates so you can easily get behind components and wiring patch panel). Such as the Chatsworth swing gate:

 

[sebastiantombs]

Good luck with a doorbell camera. There are a number of threads here covering most of the "popular" models that will integrate with Blue Iris. None of them are truly plug and play and most require jumping through smaller and smaller hoops to get them to work reliably. Seriously, they need extra gear, firmware updates that may or may not work well. You're better off with a real camera and a regular old doorbell. The Ring style stuff all rely on the "cloud", monthly fees, which introduces tons of security problems and really won't integrate with an NVR or Blue Iris at all.

 

[greensleeves]

Thanks samplenhold and holbs for your photos! That looks like it will take up quite a bit of closet space, which would stink for my youngest but oh well. My DH doesn't feel confident enough for a re-do of the IT closet DIY style after showing him those pics. We're now thinking of using a third party security installer to do it for us and maybe we will pick out whichever Dahua or Hikvision equipment beforehand... based on reviews I'm seeing locally a lot of them set up for small businesses but I'm hoping doing ours as residential will be far simpler. Unsure if this is the way to go for us. My biggest concern is the placement of the prewire above our garage door, it is in between the 2 car and 3rd car doors so is there a camera that would have clear vision for the entire width of the driveway?

As for the doorbell camera, we actually installed Eufy so we're not planning to integrate this into the NVR. So far it's been performing alright for the purposes (looking at who's at our porch, deliveries, etc.). But of course I want visibility into our driveway and back.

 

[Holbs]

I have a 2 car garage and have multiple camera's covering multiple angles (far left, far right, doorbell boobie camera, 2nd floor overwatch of driveway). If you are prewiring, consider left and right side camera installation.

 

[looney2ns]

Study this: Cliff Notes and the attached file.

 

[greensleeves]

I solicited a few estimates from local security install companies and narrowed it down to two candidates who were most responsive to my questions.

Company 1: Told me the "best deal" usually comes in 4 cam bundles and he can get a four 4MP camera "mini bullet" Dahua cam NVR bundle for $675 and install will be $250, so total is $925. (1 year warranty) I asked about turret vs. bullet and he says the bullet is "lower profile" and the ones today don't have the same issues as older models?

Company 2: Told me he sources "ENS Security" cameras (commercial he says) and can get me two 8MP turret cams for $230 each and NVR for $200 with 2TB harddrive $80, install fee $150 for total of $890. (3 year warranty)

ENS Security | 8MP WDR Network Water-proof Dome Camera

<p>8MP Network IR Water-proof Dome Camera, 2.8mm Lens, 20~30m IR distance, WDR, PoE, IP67</p>

enssecurity.com

Thoughts?

 

[mat200]

I solicited a few estimates from local security install companies and narrowed it down to two candidates who were most responsive to my questions.

Company 1: Told me the "best deal" usually comes in 4 cam bundles and he can get a four 4MP camera "mini bullet" Dahua cam NVR bundle for $675 and install will be $250, so total is $925. (1 year warranty) I asked about turret vs. bullet and he says the bullet is "lower profile" and the ones today don't have the same issues as older models?

Company 2: Told me he sources "ENS Security" cameras (commercial he says) and can get me two 8MP turret cams for $230 each and NVR for $200 with 2TB harddrive $80, install fee $150 for total of $890. (3 year warranty)

ENS Security | 8MP WDR Network Water-proof Dome Camera

<p>8MP Network IR Water-proof Dome Camera, 2.8mm Lens, 20~30m IR distance, WDR, PoE, IP67</p>

enssecurity.com

Thoughts?

Hi @greensleeves

What are your functional requirement?
Will cameras in either company meet those requirements?
Did you review the cliff notes?

hint: there's a lot more to this than just MegaPixels...

 

[greensleeves]

Hi mat, I did look through the cliff notes and it is very comprehensive, thanks. We basically just need basic 24/7 surveillance enough to see details that will be useful in the event of suspicious activity etc. We are new to home security and this is the first time we've looked into it. Since we have little ones and my DH is not a great handyman, we decided to go through a third party installer to make the process easier, even though we know it comes at a cost.

 

[samplenhold]

Thoughts?

Without knowing the exact model numbers it is hard to give you help.

#1: If I go to the Dahua US site and search for a 4MP mini bullet I come up with two cam lines. Both are on a 1/3" sensor which will not give you good low-light color performance. They retail on eBay for about $110. But they come in different lens options that will give you different fields of view.

So 4 x $110 = $440. That leaves about $235 for the NVR. Without knowing what NVR he is quoting, it is impossible to know how good it is. Install of $250 for 4 cams is good, but if he uses existing ethernet drops, then it is a little high. But you are paying for the convenience of having it all done by him and a 1 year warranty. So the cost is probably OK.

But the statement "...the bullet is "lower profile" and the ones today don't have the same issues as older models..." is not really true. A turret is way smaller than a mini bullet. Not sure what he means by "lower profile". If you are looking for cams that are inconspicuous, then a turret will beat a bullet every time. What 'issues' is he talking about? It is possible that he has these cams on hand and needs to move them.


#2: ENS Security does not 'manufacture' their own hardware as their website implies. Someone supplies them with cams and NVRs with ENS logo. They probably do put their own firmware on the cams and it is probably a dumbed down version of the manufacturer's firmware.

Two 8MP cams for $230 each, without knowing their specs, is impossible to say how good they will be. But I can tell you that being 8MP they will not get good low-light color. Maybe their IR performance will be good, but they are probably on a 1/3" sensor or something a little bit bigger. That is a lot of pixels on a small sensor.

They use Seagate Skyhawk drives. A Seagate Skyhawk two TB drive on Amazon is $70, so just $10 more from ENS. So the total is $30 cheaper than #1 but you get two less cams.

So without knowing more about the equipment, I would think that #1 is giving you more bang for buck. It might be worth it to press him about turrets. Also, before you sign anything, ask if he can show you what the view from each cam at the position will look like. That might help you decide. He may feel that is too much work to do to get a < $1000 sale though.

 

[greensleeves]

Thanks samplenhold! I asked company 1 to provide specs and await their response. He mentioned "low profile" like a robber swinging a bat to knock off your cameras. I asked about plastic deterioration issues and he says that's not an issue these days. (?) I do agree with you that with a prewired home the $250 install fee is significantly higher than company 2 which is a slight turn off. We are not planning to add wires too so the extra two cameras will be stored away until we change our mind regarding adding wires.

I called company 2 about a possible lower MP camera and he says he can get me 5MP cameras for cheaper ($50-70 cheaper a piece if I recall?).

I agree with you regarding this sale being on the low end for them, I could tell they usually do more small business or warehouse type gigs based on their websites and I'm probably a drop in their bucket when it comes to a sale.

 

[Holbs]

If you are good to hire/contract out someone... of course, that comes with a price based on labor + material. If someone hired my company to wire 4 Cat6 cables in a house, you can expect a rather surprisingly large labor cost. Hard drywall ceilings and internal structure framing make me cringe. I tell people, expect your average local labor charge (here in Northern Nevada...could be between $75 - $125) to double (houses usually required 2 technicians....one up in attic and one below) and take all 8 hours of the day if unexpected obstacles arise like they ALWAYS do). So if one of your quotes prices it at around $250, wow....go for it Something tells me they would just staple network cable to the corners of walls at that price.
I have 5 camera's 8 feet off the ground for my outside perimeter within easy golf club/baseball bat reach. Any higher, faces would be too hard to make out so what's the point of having camera's? Can't show the police that someone in a 49er's sweatshirt came to cause trouble We all accept that low hanging camera's are susceptible to vandalism. You will record those faces when they swing that bat I have 3 other camera's up high above 2nd floor as overwatch watching those camera's and wide angled.

Turret vs Bullet. Turret wins: smaller profile/real estate, does not stick out so far, less jiggly during storms.

 

[greensleeves]

Thanks holbs! We are actually not planning to add additional wires which makes me wonder why the labor cost is much higher for one company versus another. It's just them setting up the cameras and NVR, calibrating, etc. It seems like I need to get turret over bullet so definitely leaning towards that. We have realized sometimes it's easier to contract out some projects for sure. That is the case for us here...