Newbie Recommedations

dok0619

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Hi I was about to buy the Reolink POE NVR camera system to put on my house for security and saw where this forum was warning everyone not to purchase. We have a lot of early morning car break ins etc but also daytime vandalism... can anyone recommend a 4k / 8mp POE system that's still fairly affordable but still effective? I know I know... cheap and good dont go together in the same sentence lol. But was hoping to find something in the $500 range for a small 4 camera system...appreciate any help or input...
 

sebastiantombs

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:welcome:

The first thing to do is read all the material in the Wiki in the blue bar at the top of the page on a real computer, not a phone or tablet. The Cliff Notes will be particularly helpful to you. Whatever you do, I suggest staying away from kits from the big box stores, Amazon and the like. Stay away from Reolink, SV3C, Ring, Wyze and all the other low end, consumer grade junk.

In that price range you will get two cameras, no NVR, no cable or anything else. It is not a realistic price range for an effective 8MP system. The problem is sensor size is the key ingredient. Any camera can be made to apear to have a good low light, color, picture IF the exposure time is low enough, say 1/10-1/30 seconds. That may sound "fast" but 1/60 is the lowest that will work for minimal blur at night and 1/100 is much better. That, in turn, makes color totally impossible for smaller sensors and even large sensors have trouble. Every camera needs light to see in color. Never chase megapixels, chase sensor size. Remember sensor sizes are expressed in fractions, 1/3", 1/2.8", 1/2.7", 1/1.8", 1/1.2" being the most common. Here's a resolution/sensor size chart that may help -

720P - 1/3" = .333"
2MP - 1/2.8" = .357" (think a .38 caliber bullet)
4MP - 1/1.8" = .555" (bigger than a .50 caliber bullet or ball)
8MP - 1/1.2" = .833" (bigger than a 20mm chain gun round)

The current effective models are in the $175-$250 per camera price range. That doesn't include an NVR. With an NVR you need to have sufficient bandwidth to handle the resolution and number of cameras. Low priced NVRs may handle one or two cameras at full resolution, but then choke when another camera is added not matter what the resolution it may be.

I'd suggest you contact Andy, from EmpieTech. He's a vendor and a member here. He provides great prices and service as well as excellent support.

Andy
IPCT Thread

Andy's Store

King Security/EmpireTech Store

Email
Andy Wang kingsecurity2014@163.com
 
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wittaj

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Welcome!

Here are a few guidelines and considerations as you piece something together.

It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL). Starlight, ColorVu, Full Color, etc. are simply marketing terms, so don't be sold on those names.

To identify someone with the wide-angle 2.8mm lens that most people opt for (and what is in most kits), someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera, but realistically within 10 feet after you dial it in to your settings.

1633797957845.png

My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his four 2.8mm fixed lens 4k cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away. Meanwhile my 2MP varifocal optically zoomed in to the public sidewalk provided the money shot to the police to get my neighbors all their stuff back. Nobody else had video that could provide anything useful, other than what time this motion blur ghost was at their car.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well.
  • 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
  • 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
  • 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
  • 49225 PTZ - great PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.
You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A wide angle 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

One camera cannot be the be all, see all. Each one is selected for covering a specific area. Most of us here have different brands and types, from fixed cams, to varifocals, to PTZs, each one selected for it's primary purpose and to utilize the strength of that particular camera.

If your car break-ins are 45 feet away from the camera, no 2.8mm fixed lens camera will do you any good at night.

So you will need to identify the distance the camera would be from the activities you want to IDENTIFY on and purchase the correct camera for that distance as an optical zoom.

Main keys are you can't locate the camera too high (not on the 2nd story or above 7 feet high unless it is for overview and not Identification purposes) or chase MP and you need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who. Also, do not chase marketing phrases like ColorVu and Full Color and the like - all cameras need light - simple physics...

If you want to see things far away, you need optical zoom, digital zoom only works in the movies and TV...And the optical zoom is done real time - for a varifocal it is a set it and forget it. You cannot go to recorded video and optically zoom in later, at that point it is digital zoom, and the sensors on these cameras are so small which is why digital zoom doesn't work very well after the fact.
 

mat200

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Hi I was about to buy the Reolink POE NVR camera system to put on my house for security and saw where this forum was warning everyone not to purchase. We have a lot of early morning car break ins etc but also daytime vandalism... can anyone recommend a 4k / 8mp POE system that's still fairly affordable but still effective? I know I know... cheap and good dont go together in the same sentence lol. But was hoping to find something in the $500 range for a small 4 camera system...appreciate any help or input...
Welcome @dok0619

Unfortunately the Reolink cameras are simply failures for low light image capture. If you need any low light image capability you have to look for better cameras.

Due to the massive supply chain disruption there a far less deals right now in the USA for products. So I do not see you hitting such a low price target for a decent "4K"/8MP 4 camera system. You will need to adjust what you are looking for.

One of the best recommendations at this time is for those new to security cameras to get one good varifocal 4MP dahua oem a small PoE switch ( or other PoE power source ) a good long cat5e/6 cable ( copper wires, 23 of 24 awg ) and start playing around with it to learn more.

Get one of those cameras, and read the reviews here and cliff notes. Learn more before jumping in on a full kit.
 

dok0619

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yeah I was basing it off the REOLINK RLC-811a or RLC822a cameras... both have optical zooms and one has some LED lights on it as well I think...both have some good reviews online but general opinion on here seems to be they are junk and do not come close to meeting what they advertise....I have a small home, very small yard as well... driveway parking is close to garage and I park my truck on the grass near the road which is roughly 30' from the house...
 
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sebastiantombs

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Avoid Reolink, Foscam, SV3C, Nest, and all the other consumer grade cameras. They all struggle mightily at night and never get anything useful on video. Here's a link to a whole thread debunking Reolink in particular. Always look for reviews that include night video with motion and generally doubt what you see on the popular YouTube reviews. Those reviewers are making money off their reviews in multiple ways.

Compiled by mat200 -

Avoid WiFi cameras, even doorbell cameras. WiFi is not designed for the constant, 24/7, load of video that a surveillance camera produces. At best, with two cameras on WiFi, they will still experience dropouts multiple times daily. Murphy's Law says that will happen at the worst possible moment.

Lens size, focal length, is another critical factor. Many people like the wide, sweeping, views of a 2.8mm lens but be aware that identification is problematic with a lens that wide. Another factor that effects view angles is the sensor size. Typically larger sensors will have a larger field of view in any given lens size.
 

dok0619

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Avoid Reolink, Foscam, SV3C, Nest, and all the other consumer grade cameras. They all struggle mightily at night and never get anything useful on video. Here's a link to a whole thread debunking Reolink in particular. Always look for reviews that include night video with motion and generally doubt what you see on the popular YouTube reviews. Those reviewers are making money off their reviews in multiple ways.

Compiled by mat200 -

Avoid WiFi cameras, even doorbell cameras. WiFi is not designed for the constant, 24/7, load of video that a surveillance camera produces. At best, with two cameras on WiFi, they will still experience dropouts multiple times daily. Murphy's Law says that will happen at the worst possible moment.

Lens size, focal length, is another critical factor. Many people like the wide, sweeping, views of a 2.8mm lens but be aware that identification is problematic with a lens that wide. Another factor that effects view angles is the sensor size. Typically larger sensors will have a larger field of view in any given lens size.
Thanks, yes thats the article that actually brought me to this site when I was researching Reolink systems... I want to stick with all POE and no wireless cams so we can have 24x7 recording.
 

Rob2020

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yeah I was basing it off the REOLINK RLC-811a or RLC822a cameras... both have optical zooms and one has some LED lights on it as well I think...both have some good reviews online but general opinion on here seems to be they are junk and do not come close to meeting what they advertise....I have a small home, very small yard as well... driveway parking is close to garage and I park my truck on the grass near the road which is roughly 30' from the house...

Keep in mind you do not have to build the entire system all at once.

I started with one Dahua 2231, added another cam a Dahua 5442, then another, kept expanding over a period of about 6 - 8 months.

I have 5 cams active 24/7 recording and 3 to be mounted, probably in the Spring of 2022.
 

mat200

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yeah I was basing it off the REOLINK RLC-811a or RLC822a cameras... both have optical zooms and one has some LED lights on it as well I think...both have some good reviews online but general opinion on here seems to be they are junk and do not come close to meeting what they advertise....I have a small home, very small yard as well... driveway parking is close to garage and I park my truck on the grass near the road which is roughly 30' from the house...

Hi @dok0619

If you want to keep an eye on your truck at night parked 30' ( 30 foot away ) you will need a better camera than any that Reolink has available.

See the DORI section of the cliff notes...

".. and I park my truck on the grass near the road which is roughly 30' from the house... "

as well as the discussing here on the thread by @tibimakai

 

wittaj

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See my recommendations above on distance and the proper camera for a selected distance.
 

dok0619

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See my recommendations above on distance and the proper camera for a selected distance.
It sounds like the IPC-T5442T-ZE camera would work well in my situation? IPC-T5442T-ZE I just measured the distance to my truck and its 30' and my wife's van is much closer than that...
 
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dok0619

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Keep in mind you do not have to build the entire system all at once.

I started with one Dahua 2231, added another cam a Dahua 5442, then another, kept expanding over a period of about 6 - 8 months.

I have 5 cams active 24/7 recording and 3 to be mounted, probably in the Spring of 2022.
yeah that sounds like a good idea... mainly for now I'm mostly concerned about the front of the house... I was thinking maybe get the IPC-T5442T-ZE for now...then maybe either a doorbell cam or lesser turret cam with 2way voice then cams later for the side and back yard.....just not sure if I should get an NVR or use a pc with the Blue Iris software I see people discussing on here....
 
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Rob2020

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yeah that sounds like a good idea... mainly for now I'm mostly concerned about the front of the house... I was thinking maybe get the IPC-T5442T-ZE for now...then maybe either a doorbell cam or lesser turret cam with 2way voice then cams later for the side and back yard.....just not sure if I should get an NVR or use a pc with the Blue Iris software I see people discussing on here....

When I came here about a year ago I was set on a NVR and Hikvision Cams and ended up with BI and Dahua Cams after chat and research here.

Assuming you have a PC that supports BI (has enough CPU horsepower and RAM) BI is the way to go.

I found BI to work with no issues and no drama, everything just worked, there is a learning curve, but I found no learning curve to get it up and running. Sure I had a minor hiccup occasionally but it was easily solved, lots of supportive people on this website willing to share their knowledge. Another BI advantage is if you do end up mixing and matching cams (Hik and Dahua for example), BI easy, NVR not so much.

My only mistake, I knew I wanted 4 cams tops, matched the switch, had to buy a second switch :slap:
 
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dok0619

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When I came here about a year ago I was set on a NVR and Hikvision Cams and ended up with BI and Dahua Cams after chat and research here.

Assuming you have a PC that supports BI (has enough CPU horsepower and RAM) BI is the way to go.

I found BI to work with no issues and no drama, everything just worked, there is a learning curve, but I found no learning curve to get it up and running. Sure I had a minor hiccup occasionally but it was easily solved, lots of supportive people on this website willing to share their knowledge. Another BI advantage is if you do end up mixing and matching cams (Hik and Dahua for example), BI easy, NVR not so much.

My only mistake, I knew I wanted 4 cams tops, matched the switch, had to buy a second switch :slap:
I have an old desktop with 16g ram and an I7-6700 processor...would that work ok?
When I came here about a year ago I was set on a NVR and Hikvision Cams and ended up with BI and Dahua Cams after chat and research here.

Assuming you have a PC that supports BI (has enough CPU horsepower and RAM) BI is the way to go.

I found BI to work with no issues and no drama, everything just worked, there is a learning curve, but I found no learning curve to get it up and running. Sure I had a minor hiccup occasionally but it was easily solved, lots of supportive people on this website willing to share their knowledge. Another BI advantage is if you do end up mixing and matching cams (Hik and Dahua for example), BI easy, NVR not so much.

My only mistake, I knew I wanted 4 cams tops, matched the switch, had to buy a second switch :slap:
 

SouthernYankee

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An I7-6700 with 16 GB is a great computer for BI.

========================================
My standard welcome to the forum message.

Read Study Plan before spending money
Cameras are for surveillance to get information for after the fact.

Please read the IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes and other items in the IP Cam Talk Wiki. (read on a real computer, not a phone). The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.


Quick start
1) If you do not have a wired monitored alarm system, get that first
2) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras if you need good low light cameras.
3) Start with a good variable focus camera, so you test for the correct lens,lighting, camera placement.
4) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
5) Do not use WIFI cameras.
6) Do not use cloud storage
7) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
8) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
9) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
10) Do not use reolink, ring, nest, Arlo, Vivint cameras (they are junk), no cloud cameras
11) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
12) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
13) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
14) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 7ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
15) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)
16) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator
17) POE list PoE Switch Suggestion List
18) Camera Sensor size, bigger is general better Sensor Size Chart
19) Camera lens size the bigger number the more range the less FOV. . Which Security Camera Lens Size Should I Buy?
20) verify your camera placement, have a friend wearing a hoodie, ball cap and sunglasses looking down approach the house, can you identify them at night ?
21) DO NOT UPGRADE your NVR or camera unless you absolutely have a problem that needs to be fixed and known what you are doing, if you do you will turn it into a brick !!

Cameras to look at
IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED . Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+) - 4MP starlight
.................... Dahua IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED review
IPC-T5442TM-AS ..... Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ - 4MP starlight+
IPC-HDW5442t-ZE .... Dahua IPC-HDW5442T-ZE 4MP Varifocal Turret - Night Perfomance testing -- variable focus 2.7 mm-12mm 4 MP Starlight
IPC-B5442E-ZE ...... Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+ -- variable 2.7mm-12mm bullet
IPC-B5442E-Z4E .... bullet 8mm-32mm variable focus zoom 4MP
IPC-HFW7442H-Z ..... Review - Dahua IPC-HFW7442H-Z 4MP Ultra AI Varifocal Bullet Camera -- 4 MP variable focus AI
IPC-T2347G-LU ...... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera. (DS-2CD2347G1-LU)
IPC-HDW2231R-ZS .... Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal
IPC-HDW2231T-ZS-S2 . Review-OEM IPC-T2231T-ZS Ver 2, 2mp Varifocal Starlight Camera
IPC-HDW5231R-ZE .... Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
IPC-HFW4239T-ASE ... IPC-HFW4239T-ASE
IPCT-HDW5431RE-I ... Review - IP Cam Talk 4 MP IR Fixed Turret Network Camera
IPC-T5241H-AS-PV ... Review-OEM IPC-T5241H-AS-PV 2mp AI active deterrence cam
IPC-T3241-ZAS ...... Review-OEM IPC-T3241-ZAS 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal -- 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal
IPC-HFW2831T-ZS ... Review-Dahua IPC-HFW2831T-ZS 8MP WDR IR Bullet Network Camera -- 8MP Bullet 1/1.8” sensor variable focus.
DS-2CD2325FWD-I
N22AL12 ............ New Dahua N22AL12 Budget Cam w/Starlight -- low cost entry
IPC-T2347G-LU....... Review-Loryta OEM 4MP IPC-T2347G-LU ColorVu Fixed Turret Network 4mm lens & Junction Box -- 4MP ColorVu
.................... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera.
 
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