Noob looking for decent budget system.

ctd1995

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New member introduction here.

Currently have a ring doorbell and cheaper amazon motion camera setup that has been sufficient over the last few years until someone recently ran my mailbox over. I am now in the market for a better system but am very limited by cost. I'm aware "you get what you pay for" and that a better system equals better insurance but I live in a low-crime/rural area and my current budget limits me to a sub $400 system.

Now to the point, after jumping on amazon and being overwhelmed by the amount of systems that all look the same with similar specs and mixed reviews I was led to this site where I have learned a good amount but haven't found an answer to a decent cheaper system. Any of the good information I found was old and it seems like new deals come out daily on things like this.

Any recommendations for a system under $400? I've read through the cliff notes and know roughly what I want. Was considering some brands like Reolink, Lorex, Swann, and Annke but those seem to be frowned upon here. Are they really THAT bad?

Looking for a complete system or to build system that is PoE, has atleast 4 cameras, includes an NVR, covers long range as I live on an acre and would like to see things up to 100ft away.

Thanks in advance.
 
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wittaj

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You need to decide what you want the system to provide - to be able to IDENTIFY or OBSERVE what is going on.

An all-on-one box system kit for $400 will NEVER be able to IDENTIFY at 100 feet. It is all about the focal length measured in mm and the cheap commercial systems provide the small focal length, wide angle view that is useless for any distance IDENTIFY purposes.

Here are a few guidelines and considerations as you piece something together.

It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k on the wrong sensor will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL). Starlight, ColorVu, Full Color, etc. are simply marketing terms, so don't be sold on those names.

To identify someone with the wide-angle 2.8mm lens that most people opt for (and what is in most kits), someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera, but realistically within 10 feet after you dial it in to eliminate motion blur at night.

1636597507833.png

My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his four 2.8mm fixed lens 4k Lorex cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away. Meanwhile my 2MP varifocal optically zoomed in to the public sidewalk provided the money shot to the police to get my neighbors all their stuff back. Nobody else had video that could provide anything useful, other than what time this motion blur ghost was at their car. That neighbor with the 4k started to replace with 2MP models based on what he saw my do compared to his.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well.
  • 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
  • 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
  • 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
  • 49225 PTZ - great PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.
You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A wide angle 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

One camera cannot be the be all, see all. Each one is selected for covering a specific area. Most of us here have different brands and types, from fixed cams, to varifocals, to PTZs, each one selected for it's primary purpose and to utilize the strength of that particular camera.

You would be better off purchasing one good camera at the sub $200 range and slowly build up from there.

Many of us here started with the $400 crap all-in-one box kit. I started with the 4-camera pack and was like "I can place one on each corner of the house and see my whole property and the whole neighborhood." A newbie loves the wide angle "I can see the whole neighborhood" of the fixed wide angle lens. Consumer grade cameras you buy at the big box stores cater to that mindset. Once that novelty wears off and you want to IDENTIFY, then that is when the varifocal becomes a benefit over the fixed lens.

You get lured in to thinking that is great because you are watching it and you see a neighbor go by and you are like "Look at that I can tell that is Heather out walking." and "Yeah I can tell our neighbor 4 down just passed by".

Little do we realize how much WE can identify a known person just by hair style, clothing, walking pace, gait, etc.

Then one day the door checker comes by. Total stranger. Totally useless video other than what time the door checking happened.

Then you realize that this wide-angle see the whole neighborhood comes at a cost and that cost is not being able to IDENTIFY who did it. These 2.8mm wide angle cameras are great overview cameras or to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet of the camera. At 40 feet out you need a different camera.

So then we start adding more cameras and varifocal cameras so that we can optically zoom in to pinch points and other areas of interest to get the clean IDENTIFY captures of someone. While the varifocals are great at helping to identify at a distance, they come at a cost of a reduced field of view.

Of the brands you mentioned, Lorex would be the one to go with IF you really decide you want to buy an all in one kit. Lorex is Dahua OEM, but usually cheaper build quality and lower quality sensors, but when you decide to upgrade, you can still use some of the equipment in less sensitive places.

This is the quality from reolinks:

Is this person a ghost or missing a leg?


1636251478411.png



You cannot get much closer to the camera than this and look at that blur (but the things not moving look great and detailed)...


1636251601736.png


And my fave from their marketing videos - do you see a person in this picture...yes, there is a person in this picture. Could this provide anything useful for the police? Would this protect your home? The still picture looks great though except for the person and the blur of the vehicle... Will give you a hint - the person is in between the two columns:

1636597993069.png

Bad Boys
Bad Boys
Watcha gonna do
Watcha gonna do
When the camera can't see you


The Reolinks will only be able to let you know what time something happened in the middle of the night (maybe). Look at this unofficial thread and the countless examples people have provided of the the lack of quality they get from these cameras at night...

 
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Flintstone61

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I started out with a Budget Nightowl system...because my House mate came from a bad hood, and impulsively wanted a system she saw at Costco.
Alledgedly these pieces of Chit, are 5MP with a 2.8 mm lens. look great on a sunny day. but not much detail at night.
But after learning on this forum, I have been accumulating Ip camera's one at a time ( have 3 Dahua's)
and right now I have an Amcrest 8 channel NVR and an Amcrest XVR... waiting to swap for the costco recorder because it is not streamable to BLue Iris.
I can't afford a lot either, but I can afford 1 camera at a time, and being patient.
If you try for a whole system you will be dissappointed, Although if you buy a decent NVR,
you can build i nice package. And as you gain experiance you'll find you can upgrade cameras for quite a few years as you learn.
Heres my DVR....this is all you'll see. and the playback interface is dismal bordering on Suicide. Notifications are not very tunable. so i had to turn them off. SO what good is that.
I'm going to smash this piece of shit into a pancake with a sledge hammer and post it on Youtube.
Screenshot 2021-11-10 204513.png
 
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sebastiantombs

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Reality and budgets are two opposing forces. I'd suggest getting one decent camera at a time. Buying low cost cameras will just result in the same problem you've already experienced. There are less expensive models that do perform quite well but they are still in the 125-150 dollar range.

2231 Reviews

3241T-ZAS Review

Less expensive models -
 

Flintstone61

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^+1 yeah what he said above.
He taught me a lotta shit. Here's my latest system at Work. of course this has a bigger budget. The laundry room cams were $54 bucks each and they have built in Audio. work fine for close distance Amcrest 1179Ew's. The underground parking cams Amcrest 5 MP. also about 50 bucks.
But the outdoor cams are from EmpireTech on Amazon, a Dahua reseller here in the forum. top quality cams, awesome lowlight color. But like $150 a cam up to $250 for the 5241e z12 model.



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wittaj

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If I had it all over to do again, I would have avoided the $400 box kits x 3 (I was a little slow in learning this until I came to this site LOL).

With that box kit running, I started with one good IP camera and was blown away at the differences. I simply used an SD card and reviewed the video through the camera GUI.

That works well until you get to about the 3rd camera, then it makes sense to get an NVR or Blue Iris/computer combo.

So get those two cameras and play with them and cover your critical areas and then build from there as budget/time allows.

2 good cameras that are positioned in such a way to stand a 50% plus chance of being able to IDENTIFY the person is much better than a 4 camera system that will not IDENTIFY and only tell you what time the person came by.
 
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