PoE maximum length?

Discussion in 'Chit-Chat' started by born2ride, Jan 21, 2016.

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  1. born2ride

    born2ride Getting the hang of it

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    Is there a maximum length for a Poe camera before signal degrades?
     
  2. zero-degrees

    zero-degrees Known around here

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    More power attenuation problem then signal transmission. 300' is MAX for POE without inserting another switch/router/extender.

    POE-E101-Applications-1.gif
     
  3. born2ride

    born2ride Getting the hang of it

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  4. j4co

    j4co Pulling my weight

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    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 22, 2016
  5. Del Boy

    Del Boy Getting comfortable

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    You can go longer with better wire. The rating is the maximum certified length.
     
  6. zero-degrees

    zero-degrees Known around here

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    That's not exactly true - the max data transmission before signal/data becomes unstable in a POE environment is 320 -330'...

    If your just talking "theory" then you may be correct, I don't pull cables past that length without a switch, however standards are 32X is MAX distance for data in a POE environment.
     
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  7. Del Boy

    Del Boy Getting comfortable

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    I bow to your personal experience as I've never actually tried it but had heard you could go a bit further.
     
  8. j4co

    j4co Pulling my weight

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    I work in computer networks and when i was in LAN department many years ago, we never exceed 90 meter for the in wall cabling. Than you have some meters in the patch room to the switchport and also to use user desk so stay below 100 meters.
    It has off course to do with attunuation, so better cables will work over longer distance indeed. But in installs we have let done it is never exceeded. In general you get measurement reports of all the cables including lenght.

    For POE you also have loss in voltage over long cables, but that would perhaps still be in the threshold of the specifications. I would take care if you have a device that is near the power limit of the class if falls in on a 100 meter cable. You can loose some 4.4 watt according to that Wiki page.
     
  9. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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  10. Del Boy

    Del Boy Getting comfortable

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    I think thicker copper wire (lower AWG number) will help. Theoretically it must, that was my logic! But this was one of those broken watch occasions, where I was right through a bit of theoretical logic and blind luck!
     
  11. erkme73

    erkme73 Getting comfortable

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    Just to add mud to the water, keep in mind that longer lengths - especially non-shielded/non-grounded runs - will also pick up transient voltages through induction. The big one is lightning. Even if the bolt never hits the ground, a long, ungrounded run can pick up enough voltage through induction that it can fry your switch/end-points.
     
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  12. MR2

    MR2 Young grasshopper

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    we've got a few 150+Meters and they are quite stable, these are behind good HP Managed switch's though...
     
  13. born2ride

    born2ride Getting the hang of it

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    I have been thinking about a 1000ft run for one camera , Was looking into long range access point or some sort of repeater. Maybe even wired and wifi togther
     
  14. zero-degrees

    zero-degrees Known around here

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    Hey @born2ride I don't believe any cable will allow for this - power will be lost and data will be beyond unstable - especially video. Your best bet would be a Point to Point wireless system assuming this 1,000 foot run is outdoors. If its internal you just need to add switches or extenders along the way. Outdoors though a 5GHz point to point will easily handle it with minimal lag.

    Example below - this is a beast and what a lot of point to point internet providers use in farming communities as it has a 3-4mile range.
    http://www.wlanparts.com/ez-bridge/ez-bridge-ezbr-ultra5-5ghz-100mbps-250mw-wireless-bridge/
     
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  15. hiky

    hiky Getting the hang of it

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    that 5Ghz p to p looks like a nice bit of kit actually, downside is direct line of sight
     
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  16. Jack B Nimble

    Jack B Nimble Pulling my weight

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    I believe Razor says he has run many at 500 ft without issue. Id suggest high quality cable is a large part of any battle of maximizing POE loss at distance.
     
  17. JFire

    JFire Getting the hang of it

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    You'll find a ton of antenna options for long distance wifi on ebay. Even how to build them on youtube.

    Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
     
  18. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    FiberOptics is what you use at those distances, but then of course you need a parallel line for power, presuming you dont have power in your remote location already.... the fiber and equipment is usually not that much when your looking at the cost of trenching nearly a quarter mile.. if you look around used enterprise market you can find switches/routers with SPF ports for a song and dance.

    but I agree with your conclusion, this is one of the rare cases where WiFi would be better.. as long as there is nothing super critical your cameras need to watch.. If you have very high valued goods in that remote building then dig the trench and lay the fiber. and as an added bonus fiber is immune to lightning.. unlike a P2P Wifi bridge with external antennas or long runs of copper.
     
  19. Razer

    Razer Pulling my weight

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    As a note, yes, I have more than a few 500 foot runs now and they are all working fine. I have had 500 foot runs going for over a year with no issues at all of any kind actually which surprised even me. I am running Hikvision bullets at the end of these long runs and I have at least 20-30 500 footers and one is close to 550. I once tried on my workbench two separate cables coupled together for a total length of 1000 feet and it would not work, the camera powered up and I could see it in SADP at times and even get logged into the camera but could never see video. I have never tried on a solid spool but I would say 1000 is too long. I am totally comfortable with 500 feet now and do not even worry about that.

    I often use fiber too, for example I have locations that I have a switch connected over 600 feet of fiber, then cameras 400 feet and farther form that fiber connected switch so my total distance from my NVR is 1000 feet or more.

    I also use Ubiquiti wireless, so I have a 450 foot wireless shot that then connects to a switch and then I have 8 3mp cameras on that and one of those cameras is where my 550 foot run is. I have wireless with as many as 14 cameras connected and then wirelessly coming back to the NVR and the Ubiquiti equipment is cheap and rock solid. Cannot believe how well it works for such inexpensive equipment.

    I do the long runs when I have to, as in I really have no choice because of lack of power and or no place to put a switch. All of my cameras are outdoor and in most cases I am retrofitting an existing location so my options are more limited. I greatly prefer proper planning during the construction phase so I don't have to worry as much but in the end the solutions I am using at the distances I need are working fine so I'm not too concerned about the longer runs now.
     
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  20. riggz

    riggz n3wb

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    Ha! I've always thought about taking a fresh 1000' box of CAT6, terminating both ends and testing it.

    I love Ubiquiti! What Ubiquiti equipment are you using with 14 cameras and how much throughput are you getting? I would guess with 3mp cameras at full resolution and 15fps would yield about 100mbps no?
     
  21. Razer

    Razer Pulling my weight

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    Haha, I had a hard enough time finding the far end on my half full 530 foot test spool, Like to never got to the far end to terminate it lol. I would love to try 1k but don't have the patience to get to the end of a full spool!

    Here are a few examples of the wireless shots and equipment on them. I use Nanastation M5 for my wireless shots in all of these. Hik cameras are usually 8-10 FPS and they may be in 2 or 3mp mode depending on the shot I need, at times the wide view is more useful and they are at 2mp.

    1. I have 10 IP cameras on the wireless side of the connections with 500' camera runs and less on here, 7 Hikvision 3mp cameras, 2 older ACTi 1mp cameras and one ACTi 2mp camera. Streaming 25mb or so over the wireless.

    2. I have 14 IP cameras here, 12 Hikvison 3mp cameras, one 4mp hemispheric, and one 4ch Axis analog encoder with 2 cameras on it now. Total data stream is about 40mb and it says I am using about half of what my wireless shot will handle.

    3. 5 4mp Hikvision cameras all running in 4mp mode, 8 fps. Using 30mb here! Good lord the 4mp cameras have GIANT streams compared to the 3mp cameras, looking at the data on the streams in exacq they are 5-6 times larger streams than the 3mp cameras here at this same site. There would be no way to do 14 4mp cameras and really be reliable I do not believe.

    4. 6 IP cameras here, 5 Hikvision 3mp and one ACTi 2mp camera. Total stream is only 7mb on this shot, I double checked my settings and all is normal but my streams seems very small for 6 cameras but I'm not going to complain. Says I'm using about 9% of my available bandwidth.


    I have had great reliability out of them, all of these mentioned have been in place for more than a year, and I have locations that are over three years with wireless running perfectly. I have had exactly one wireless transceiver go bad so far, and that was water damage on an end so I cannot blame Ubiquiti for that one either. All in all I do some weird runs using fiber, wireless, and even double spec 550 foot cat5 runs and they all work perfectly so I'm pretty happy overall. More issues out of my fiber links than I've ever had with wireless or over long cat5 oddly enough.

    Also - I do have a site running a full 100mb on the DVR side nonstop now I noticed the other day. 29 IP cameras, 27 of them Hikvision and 2 ACTi. 8 fps primarily but a few at 10 and 12 fps. None of these are wireless though lol.
     
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  22. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    Ive got Ubiquiti Access points installed in other states that have been churning along outside 5 years minimum without as much as a hiccup.. I have 3 dual band AC access points spread throughout the house and I can max out my 100Mbit internet with any device from anywhere on my property.

    its hard to beat Ubiquiti in cost vs performance.. unless you buy one of there cams lol