Putting Together a New Dahua Based System

essjay

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Hi guys......

So my brother has asked me to start some research into a system for him which we'll look to build in about 8 weeks. Currently I'm all Hikvision but looking to Dahua for this system as he wants at least 1 camera with a microphone. My thinking is that I might as well stick with the same brand/ecosystem for ease of use and consistency.

My brother is a dog breeder so wants the camera with a mic so he can keep an eye/ear on the mothers/puppies. He's quite rural and his yard has been robbed a couple of times including all his chickens (!). He's also not at all tech savvy so being the only member in the family that works in IT, I'm on speed dial whenever there's a family computer issue. When I say not tech savvy I mean he can't even figure out eBay. Whatever system I come up with I'll need remote management as I live 120 miles from him.

For recording I'm thinking a prebuilt Dell i5 4590 with a 4TB WD Purple. I have a spare gigabit switch and some PoE injectors that I'll give him. I'll pick up a used APC UPS from the local classifieds. I'll go with Blue Iris as he liked the look of the app on my phone. With TeamViewer installed I should be able to do most maintenance. His broadband is not good at all (5 meg down and about 0.5 meg up) but we'll just have to live with that. Nothing I can do there.

So cameras. I'm thinking I'll give him a choice of 2 or 3 cameras in total so I don't confuse him. Maybe a fixed turret (recommendations please), low range PTZ and a upper range PTZ.

Position 1 - "puppy room/house"
The camera here is just to watch the puppies/mothers. He wants a mic and as the room is small enough the onboard IR should be good enough. I'm thinking a 2.8mm lens should be fine. Here I'll recommend the fixed turret (model unknown at this stage) or perhaps the SD29204T-GN (or SD29204S-GN) might be a fun camera to have in there where he can PTZ all he wants.

Position 2 - dog run
He'd like a camera on the dog run so this could just be a 2.8mm fixed camera for a wide field of view or the SD29204T-GN again. Will need a couple of additional IR illuminators.

Position 3 - front entrance.
This is a bit more complicated as I can put a camera on the eves of his house looking down on the gate. But I think I'll need way more than 6mm as it could be 10m or 15m from the camera mount point to the gates. I'll definitely need some sort of IR cannon. I don't think a fixed camera would be good in this location and maybe the SD29204T-GN could do a job again. My other option is to mount a camera on his garage about 40m from the gates with a good zoom like the SD59430U-HN. It is expensive but you get what you pay for.

Appreciate any feedback or recommendations. These are the three main positions he's spoken about but I'm sure he'll want more cameras. I'll need a recommendation for a fixed turret. What the general conscious on a cheap Dahua camera for this? The IPC-HDW4431C-A?
 

bp2008

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0.5 mbps up is going to suck for remote camera viewing, but teamviewer should do a decent enough job with it.

I like the HDW4421C, which is almost the same as the HDW4431C-A. https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Dahua-IPC-HDW4431C-A-Built-in-MIC-HD-4MP-IR-30m-IP-Camera-security-cctv-Dome/1282343_32580229073.html

You can see pics from my 6mm HDW4421C compared to several other cams here: https://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php/13034-DH-IPC-HFW4800EN-(4K-1-2-3-quot-bullet)?p=119025&viewfull=1#post119025

I got a SD29204S-GN just yesterday from Shenzhen Kingstar International Trade Co., Ltd. (aliexpress seller). Of course, they sent a PAL version (25 FPS limit) despite my choosing NTSC (30 FPS limit) in their options. It is mostly irrelevant since I run it at 10 FPS anyway. I'm not terribly impressed by its image quality but considering what it is and how much it cost, it isn't too bad. It at least has decent WDR.
 

mando209

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lol@ubiquiti aircam.umm what happened to the night pic? :p the 4421 looks good.:)
 

bp2008

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That original aircam didn't have IR support. Permanent IR filter installed at the base of the lens. They could see IR only if you replaced the lens, or physically removed the IR filter from the stock lens, which made daytime video look like it had a sepia filter applied.
 

nayr

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if this is a rural commercial enterprise he may not care precisely about form factor so much.. for those long distance shots you can build a gun camera that goes in a normal CCTV enclosure.. the LPR one in my signature is easily reading car plates @ 180ft because I matched it up with a 60mm lens and an IR cannon with a tight focus..

An enclosure like this: https://www.amazon.com/VideoSecu-Weatherproof-Surveillance-Enclosure-HS861/dp/B004CBGFOS/ would have stood out too much for residental use, far too industrial and big.. so I put mine in a fake birdhouse, but it sounds like this environment none of that will really matter.
 
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essjay

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if this is a rural commercial enterprise he may not care precisely about form factor so much.. for those long distance shots you can build a gun camera that goes in a normal CCTV enclosure.. the LPR one in my signature is easily reading car plates @ 180ft because I matched it up with a 60mm lens and an IR cannon with a tight focus..

An enclosure like this: https://www.amazon.com/VideoSecu-Weatherproof-Surveillance-Enclosure-HS861/dp/B004CBGFOS/ would have stood out too much for residental use, far too industrial and big.. so I put mine in a fake birdhouse, but it sounds like this environment none of that will really matter.
Thanks I'll take a look.

Also I'm not adverse to something like a Dahua NVR as the 4216 will save about $100 over the PC + Blue Iris. That said I've never used an NVR so no idea how to control it or if I could do anything remotely on it (I suspect not).
 
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essjay

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0.5 mbps up is going to suck for remote camera viewing, but teamviewer should do a decent enough job with it.

I like the HDW4421C, which is almost the same as the HDW4431C-A. https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Dahua-IPC-HDW4431C-A-Built-in-MIC-HD-4MP-IR-30m-IP-Camera-security-cctv-Dome/1282343_32580229073.html

You can see pics from my 6mm HDW4421C compared to several other cams here: https://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php/13034-DH-IPC-HFW4800EN-(4K-1-2-3-quot-bullet)?p=119025&viewfull=1#post119025

I got a SD29204S-GN just yesterday from Shenzhen Kingstar International Trade Co., Ltd. (aliexpress seller). Of course, they sent a PAL version (25 FPS limit) despite my choosing NTSC (30 FPS limit) in their options. It is mostly irrelevant since I run it at 10 FPS anyway. I'm not terribly impressed by its image quality but considering what it is and how much it cost, it isn't too bad. It at least has decent WDR.
Thanks, some good reading there.
 

nayr

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remotely with mobile apps you can view recordings and view live streams, configuration takes place through OSD, WebUI, or SmartPSS.. but if you set it up to record continuously and flag motion events on timeline then there is not much to do remotely other than check on things.

Dont sound like you'll be needing many of the more advanced features BI offers, a NVR is pretty simple and basic.. but nothing wrong with KISS.
 

Fastb

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essjay,

mic: This forum indicates the built in mics are not impressive with their performance. I don't have a cam with built in mic, so I can't attest to that.
I do use cams with external powered mics. I can report they work real well, even at 30' away.

I use a mic that supports pass through on power: https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B004REA7MG/ref=nosim/ipctk-20
I use POE to the cam. Then I use a POE splitter to create 12V from the POE voltage. https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0146LFMZG/ref=nosim/ipctk-20
The POE splitter powers the mic, and the mic passes 12V to the cam.

You have many more camera choices if you use an external mic. The selection of cameras with built-in mics is limited, at least with Dahua (the brand I use).

I have a pir/radar sensor (https://www.amazon.com/BOSCH-SECURITY-VIDEO-OD850-F1-Detector/dp/B0041WX11I) or a laser line (https://www.amazon.com/E3JK-R4M2-12-24V-Retroreflective-Photoelectric-Reflector/dp/B0057UMESY?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00) connected to the camera's EXTERNAL ALARM input. I'm using two Dahua IPC-HDBW4421E-AS Dome IP Camera for the above.

When an breach is detected, it's marked on the playback timeline. And the TOUR setting switches the monitor (connected to the NVR) to that camera, and the audio out is enabled. TOUR usually shows multiple screens, and no audio. An intrusion switches TOUR to a one-camera view, with audio. And the event sends a 15 seecond video clip to my cell phone, using gDMSS for me to see what happened. Then I can decide to remote view or not. With your slow connection to the internet, you might opt to have snapshots sent to your phone, instead of the larger video clip.

Good luck thwarting the chicken thieves!

Fastb
 
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essjay

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remotely with mobile apps you can view recordings and view live streams, configuration takes place through OSD, WebUI, or SmartPSS.. but if you set it up to record continuously and flag motion events on timeline then there is not much to do remotely other than check on things.

Dont sound like you'll be needing many of the more advanced features BI offers, a NVR is pretty simple and basic.. but nothing wrong with KISS.
I'm all for KISS especially when it comes to this fella. I could put TeamViewer on his wife's laptop for remotely logging in to the WebUI or SmartPSS. I also could suggest any money savings be put towards a managed PoE switch which might give me a bit more remote control of his system.
 

nayr

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why not just connect directly to the NVR remotely with WebUI or SmartPSS.. would be easier and smoother.
 

essjay

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why not just connect directly to the NVR remotely with WebUI or SmartPSS.. would be easier and smoother.
I presume it would mean putting a second router in there for VPN or port forwarding. He doesn't have a static IP address but ways around that.

Not against doing that either though.....
 

nayr

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Depends on what router he has now, but many consumer routers already have VPN Servers built in.. and many more can be flashed to DD-WRT or something simuliar w/VPN Servers.. its mostly the provider provided routers that suck so bad they dont have that.

Using the WebUI/SmartPSS remotely wont take really any bandwidth when your not messing w/video.. TeamViewer is going to have to send video even for basic traffic.
 

cor35vet

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The HDW4421C is the old generation of the HDW4431C, would not recommend buying old gen hardware.
Mind the number: 2 -> old gen Themis, 3 -> new gen Eos. Comes with a few more features (more IVS, SmartIR, H265, ?).

mic: This forum indicates the built in mics are not impressive with their performance. I don't have a cam with built in mic, so I can't attest to that.
The microphone of the HDW4431C is pretty good in my opinion, did some nice spying with it :p
You have to turn off the software noise removal however, they messed that up....
MIC Demo from someone here on the forum:
You could also just put a raspberry pi at his home with dyndns and SSH + VPN server so you can get into his network remotely.
Enable RDP on his PC as it is lighter and better than TeamViewer.
 

bp2008

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Enable RDP on his PC as it is lighter and better than TeamViewer.
More secure too, being accessed only by VPN.

The one thing I don't like about RDP on Windows is how it doesn't share the screen and uses a private desktop that the local user can't see. There is probably a way around that, but I don't know how to do it.
 

essjay

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I'll check what version of Windows 7 they have as I'd prefer not to hack it to run RDP.
 

essjay

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its mostly the provider provided routers that suck so bad they dont have that.
You can be sure it's an ISP router he has. I have the same one and bridged it......

Using the WebUI/SmartPSS remotely wont take really any bandwidth when your not messing w/video.. TeamViewer is going to have to send video even for basic traffic.
Never thought of that. TeamViewer would sending be video while WebUI is just sending HTML and assets so much lighter.
 

rotorwash

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More secure too, being accessed only by VPN.

The one thing I don't like about RDP on Windows is how it doesn't share the screen and uses a private desktop that the local user can't see. There is probably a way around that, but I don't know how to do it.
I've used VNC in the past and have had great success with it. http://www.realvnc.com is one of the flavors. For a non-commercial use, the key is free. Set up the VPN as suggested and access the desktop through the VNC client. Simply install the app on the server and you have access to the desktop from anywhere.
 

FrankOceanXray

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4431 has a very nice microphone. Im sure there are upgrades, better ones available. But if the camera sees it, the mic will pick it up. Not whispered conversation but whispers around it... very easy to hear.
 
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