ready to buy

[kolbasz]

So, I finally got my first main camera in and also added an ezviz doorbell cam to round out the front door view. But a camera is crap without any history, so I need to get BI and for BI a system to run it.

I am eyeing a system with an i5-6500 and 8GB ram, hp z240. Looking at the sizing guide bits, I get a little confused. It talks about the MP and the frame rates, etc, but my question is, if I am recording secondary feeds (most of the time) with lower MP and resolution, then the numbers change.

Those calculations are only accurate in the event that I am running all cameras at full resolution, full time, right? Meaning if at a given time if only 3 cameras are triggered, then the calculation is for 3 cameras, not 7 (or however many I end up with).

As I give it thought, I see potentially 8-10 cameras in my future. This would be longer term, but if things progress, I can see myself getting there. I may also add an LPR, but that's more of a wish list thing because I think the tech is cool.

So yeah, pretty simple, before committing to a purchase, would this system be sufficient for my plans?

 

[samplenhold]

I really prefer to continuously record, 24/7. Too many times you can miss something if you only have it set up to record on motion. I have used several cams that were not tripped but gave information as to where a person came from, where they went, info on cars, etc. If the were not set up for continuously recording, that info would not be available.

Here is a post that talks about that.

Why I like Continuous Recording (aka 24/7)

So a guy came to the door yesterday, and while my wife did not open the door, it kind of spooked her out. She said he seem suspicious saying he found a driver's license on the lawn and wanted to know if it belonged to her. So when I got back from the range, I checked out the cams. This is one...

ipcamtalk.com

If you use substreams in BI that should be fine. Here is a thread that someone else asked the same question:

Deciding on a "workstation"

Hello everyone, I'm just looking for some friendly advice and maybe a nudge in the right direction. Long story short, I had blue iris in the past running on a gaming laptop, with 5 cameras (3 exterior, 2 interior), but with a new place of living, it's time to get a bit more serious, as-well-as...

ipcamtalk.com

Just make sure that the PC is capable of dual channel memory and has that installed and that you can put at least one 3.5" HDD for recoding the videos. If you plan on using the Dual-NIC process to isolate your cams, you will need to be able to install a PCIE NIC card, so an expansion slot is needed.

 

[kolbasz]

thanks. I guess that's one bit that is misleading. My plan was to go 24/7, but i assume not recording 4k all the time, which is the reason for the substream. It sits, recording a lower quality image and then ups the quality when needed. However, this might be a misunderstanding on my part. Also, maybe I am just assuming that 4k at 15fps (seems to be the average used), will use lots of space 24/7 and instead it is not that much and 4-TB will yield me 30-ish days from several cameras.

I know quicksync is important for the h264/h265 bit, but your mention of memory is interesting. I was reading some posts yesterday talking about AMD processors and matching them with different memory and memory speeds. Does this mean that memory is actually more important than the CPU for overall system size?

The one linked post was most helpful as it mentions a similarly sized machine and actually links to one thats a few buck less because of free shipping.

 

[sebastiantombs]

I think you have it backwards. Recording, in Blue Iris, is normally done with the high resolution stream. The substreams, low resolution, are used for the display console unless a single camera is displayed, then a full resolution window is used. BI does not, significantly, process video that is being recorded and recording a high res stream has little to no impact on system performance. Playing them back does, though, but normally you'd want the highest resolution available in those recordings to be able to see accurately what happened and, hopefully, identify who did it.

 

[looney2ns]

Keep in mind that 4k cams, takes a LOT of horsepower and storage space. And in most situations aren't needed.
They also will not do nearly as well at night as the current king Review-OEM Loryta IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal 4mp camera (Dahua) | IP Cam Talk

Stick with Intel in either a Dell Optiplex or an HP Elitedesk.

 

[kolbasz]

Keep in mind that 4k cams, takes a LOT of horsepower and storage space. And in most situations aren't needed.
They also will not do nearly as well at night as the current king Review-OEM Loryta IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal 4mp camera (Dahua) | IP Cam Talk

I think I mixed up my 4k with 4MP. This is the very camera I have.

 

[kolbasz]

I think you have it backwards. Recording, in Blue Iris, is normally done with the high resolution stream. The substreams, low resolution, are used for the display console unless a single camera is displayed, then a full resolution window is used. BI does not, significantly, process video that is being recorded and recording a high res stream has little to no impact on system performance. Playing them back does, though, but normally you'd want the highest resolution available in those recordings to be able to see accurately what happened and, hopefully, identify who did it.

ah, so the substream while you can view it on the screens is not technically recording. and recording only happens when it detect movement, records the iframe bit and then full res. After that it reverts to substream and not recording 24/7

 

[sebastiantombs]

I was talking about recording 24/7, continuous recording, but BI will always record the high res stream. The low res, substreams, are simply for viewing and to lower system load significantly.

 

[kolbasz]

ah, gotcha. I thought I read/heard there was a way to record the low quality stream when nothing is happening.

it was on a selfhosted podcast.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Sure, you can do that too, but it is a serious trade off. Let's say camera "A" is triggered but camera "B", which also sees that same area, isn't triggered. Any details that are missed in camera "A" won't be viewable in the video from "B" because the resolution is too low to be useful. Disk space is relatively cheap, 4TB for about $120 and 8TB for about $200 on Amazon, assuming a WD "purple" drive, so provision enough disk space and record the high res streams. You can also use less expensive drives but they are not rated for constant writing like the "purple" is. Be sure to read ALL the tips about setting up a disk drive for video recording, cluster size is important, and for setting things properly in Blue Iris (if you plan on using Blue Iris).

 

[kolbasz]

hmm. OK. I know I saw some stuff that said 8TB (maybe 4TB) is good for 30 days. If that is full resolution, then I am OK with that actually. I guess once I get a system I can play and figure it out.

 

[sebastiantombs]

The actual drive size is governed by how many cameras, the frame rate, the bit rate and, to a lesser degree, the iframe rate. Estimates of how much a drive will store need to take these factors into account. Somebodies post that says x will store y days without those reference markers are useless. There is a drive size calculator, or a link to one, in the Cliff Notes here on IPCT, I believe.

Example, I get about a week with three 4MP, 6144bps, 10FPS, 10 iframe, and ten 2MP, 2048bps, 10 FPS, 10 iframe on a single 4TB drive. They all record 24/7 at those rates. There are a couple of other directories that store about an additional 20GB of clips that I maintain for traffic use.

 

[Arjun]

I wholesome agree, if you're not recording 24/7, you don't have a surveillance system

I really prefer to continuously record, 24/7. Too many times you can miss something if you only have it set up to record on motion. I have used several cams that were not tripped but gave information as to where a person came from, where they went, info on cars, etc. If the were not set up for continuously recording, that info would not be available.

Here is a post that talks about that.

Why I like Continuous Recording (aka 24/7)

So a guy came to the door yesterday, and while my wife did not open the door, it kind of spooked her out. She said he seem suspicious saying he found a driver's license on the lawn and wanted to know if it belonged to her. So when I got back from the range, I checked out the cams. This is one...

ipcamtalk.com

If you use substreams in BI that should be fine. Here is a thread that someone else asked the same question:

Deciding on a "workstation"

Hello everyone, I'm just looking for some friendly advice and maybe a nudge in the right direction. Long story short, I had blue iris in the past running on a gaming laptop, with 5 cameras (3 exterior, 2 interior), but with a new place of living, it's time to get a bit more serious, as-well-as...

ipcamtalk.com

Just make sure that the PC is capable of dual channel memory and has that installed and that you can put at least one 3.5" HDD for recoding the videos. If you plan on using the Dual-NIC process to isolate your cams, you will need to be able to install a PCIE NIC card, so an expansion slot is needed.

 

[samplenhold]

My plan was to go 24/7, but i assume not recording 4k all the time, which is the reason for the substream. It sits, recording a lower quality image and then ups the quality when needed.

As others have stated, the main stream is used for recording. No real processing is done by BI if you choose the direct to disk option. If you take advantage of the new sub-stream option, the sub-stream is used for display in a multi-cam view and for motion detection, which is where the real resources are used up. Folks have reported their system going from 70% CPU use to below 10% by using the sub-stream option.

Does this mean that memory is actually more important than the CPU for overall system size?

BI is more efficient if the motherboard's RAM connections are dual channel AND you use two sticks of RAM instead of one. So say you are looking at a PC that says it has 16GB RAM. Is that ONE stick of 16GB or TWO stick of 8GB? On a dual channel system with two sticks, memory access is faster than if you only have a single stick. But I would not say that memory is more important that the CPU. Just realize that there are nuances to systems that can impact the performance.

I thought I read/heard there was a way to record the low quality stream when nothing is happening.

This was probably referring to using VBR versus CBR (Variable versus Constant Bit Rate). A VBR stream will use less diskspace than CBR when the scene changes little, but when the scene changes a lot, the bit rate increases and uses more diskspace. But there is a trade off for VBR in recording artifacts.

 

[kolbasz]

I wholesome agree, if you're not recording 24/7, you don't have a surveillance system

I guess I just wasnt sure about the quality of the recordings during downtimes. Do I technically need a full resolution image of my bushes and flowers and empty driveway.

Not that it is bad, but my assumption was that there would be lower quality footage of something static and when there is activity, we get the full resolution. However, this might have been a misunderstanding on my part and if full resolution 24/7 is the only way, then I am OK with it. Storage is dirt cheap these days so getting an 8TB drive is fine. Especially in the beginning with only a few cameras, it will take weeks to fill it.

 

[kolbasz]

This was probably referring to using VBR versus CBR (Variable versus Constant Bit Rate). A VBR stream will use less diskspace than CBR when the scene changes little, but when the scene changes a lot, the bit rate increases and uses more diskspace. But there is a trade off for VBR in recording artifacts.

Perhaps. I know simply looking at live view with vbr the image is pretty bad/disappointing, so CBR it is. I am sure i will figure it out as I go and make the tweaks where necessary. I tell my neighbors their blink systems are meh, so yeah, just want to do it right.

 

[sebastiantombs]

My experience, for what it's worth, is that the higher MP cameras need CBR at a fairly high rate which is why I run them at 6144CBR. The 2MP cameras do fine at 2048VBR. I think it's may be a function of how the cameras, 5442 series, handle VBR versus the 2MP cameras, 52xx, 42xx and 22xx, do it. I've tried VBR on the 5442 and the video goes "blocky" in a very short time period.

 

[kolbasz]

My experience, for what it's worth, is that the higher MP cameras need CBR at a fairly high rate which is why I run them at 6144CBR. The 2MP cameras do fine at 2048VBR. I think it's may be a function of how the cameras, 5442 series, handle VBR versus the 2MP cameras, 52xx, 42xx and 22xx, do it. I've tried VBR on the 5442 and the video goes "blocky" in a very short time period.

Agreed, that's what I have, 5442 and in some testing, with camera in the basement, vbr was crap. Switched back to cbr and things immediately cleared up.

Curious, off topic, but you mention 2mp cameras. Where do these have a place when going against something like the 5442. Is it a cost thing or are there other more important factors?

 

[sebastiantombs]

The biggest factor was that when I started the 2MP Starvis, 1/2.7 or 1/2.8, was "king of the hill". I do like the 5442s but they do cost more, and I squeak when sitting still. I'm not trying to produce a Hollyweird epic, just catch any potential problems that might occur and a good 2MP can still be pretty useful.

 

[kolbasz]

The biggest factor was that when I started the 2MP Starvis, 1/2.7 or 1/2.8, was "king of the hill". I do like the 5442s but they do cost more, and I squeak when sitting still. I'm not trying to produce a Hollyweird epic, just catch any potential problems that might occur and a good 2MP can still be pretty useful.

Makes sense. Probably don't need a 5442 in the garage, but maybe in front of it I do.