Semi Professional Installs

[hmjgriffon]

So I told a guy at work about some of my camera/security/home automation stuff and he's been telling other people at work and a few have shown some interest in having me set up some stuff at their houses. Anyone in here do installs professionally or for friends? I've got no idea what you would charge people for this stuff or how, hourly? by the task? Just curious on other people's thoughts. The idea of doing this stuff for money has been floating around in my head.

 

[fenderman]

So I told a guy at work about some of my camera/security/home automation stuff and he's been telling other people at work and a few have shown some interest in having me set up some stuff at their houses. Anyone in here do installs professionally or for friends? I've got no idea what you would charge people for this stuff or how, hourly? by the task? Just curious on other people's thoughts. The idea of doing this stuff for money has been floating around in my head.

In many states you need to be licensed...

 

[drew91101]

Are you charging friend prices or trying to make a few $$. Agree you likely have to be licensed but I did a few jobs for "friends" at restaurants and houses, I charged the cost of equipment plus 15% for random stuff (wire, connectors, drill bits, ext...) then came up with a per camera price depending on how easy they were to run. IOW a to run a camera to a drop ceiling was a lot cheaper than fishing through drywall.

 

[hmjgriffon]

Are you charging friend prices or trying to make a few $$. Agree you likely have to be licensed but I did a few jobs for "friends" at restaurants and houses, I charged the cost of equipment plus 15% for random stuff (wire, connectors, drill bits, ext...) then came up with a per camera price depending on how easy they were to run. IOW a to run a camera to a drop ceiling was a lot cheaper than fishing through drywall.

definitely trying to make some money, I value my free time, since I would be new to it I might kind of discount it a little until I felt confident but once I did I'd wanna be in full swing. As far as licensing, I've got no problem getting a license, hell if it took off I'd quit my god awful current job and make a business out of it. If that jackoff lester jackson can sell security systems and wear $5k suits I have a possibility of being able to at least make what I make now working for a bunch of assholes lol.

 

[drew91101]

Hah I hear you there. I looked into it as well. The license wasn't much of an issue as paying for insurance which I believe you need to get the license. For me to do the jobs professionally, I'd have to quit my full-time job so I could do the installs quickly and not just in my spare time.

If you are looking to make money, I would probably up-charge the equipment 50% and then charge between 100-300 per camera depending on the difficulty to install. I know that sounds like a lot but get a quote from a professional company and you will me amazed at some of the prices they throw out for hik systems.

 

[fenderman]

definitely trying to make some money, I value my free time, since I would be new to it I might kind of discount it a little until I felt confident but once I did I'd wanna be in full swing. As far as licensing, I've got no problem getting a license, hell if it took off I'd quit my god awful current job and make a business out of it. If that jackoff lester jackson can sell security systems and wear $5k suits I have a possibility of being able to at least make what I make now working for a bunch of assholes lol.

Depending on the state, licensing may require working in the security industry for thousands of hours..its not like anyone can simply apply for a license .
For example, to install cameras in NJ you need a burglar alarm license. These are the requirements to obtain the license. See no. 7...
13:31A-3.1 REQUIREMENTS FOR BURGLAR ALARM OR FIRE ALARM LICENSURE a) All applicants seeking licensure to engage in the burglar alarm or fire alarm business shall: 1) Be at least 18 years of age; 2) Be of good moral character pursuant to N.J.S.A. 45:5A-27; 3) Not have been convicted of a crime of the first, second or third degree with 10 years prior to the filing of the application for licensure; 4) Not have been convicted of the fourth degree offense of engaging in the unlicensed practice of electrical contracting; 5) Hold a high school diploma or equivalency certificate; 6) Have successfully completed the burglar alarm or fire alarm examination, as applicable to the field in which the applicant is seeking licensure, set forth in N.J.A.C. 13:31A-3.2; and 7) Have immediately preceding the submission of the application, at least four years of experience in burglar alarm or fire alarm business, which shall be satisfied by one of the following: i) Proof that the applicant has completed at least four years of practical hands-on experience, which shall include a minimum of 6,720 hours, working with tools in the installation, alteration, or repair of wiring for fire alarms, burglar alarms, and/or electronic security systems and proof that the applicant has completed 80 hours of technical courses applicable to the field in which the applicant is seeking licensure. The 80 hours of technical courses shall include two hours of training in the Barrier Free Subcode, N.J.A.C. 5:23-7, two hours of training in the New Jersey Uniform LICENSEES AND BUSINESSES—ALARMS/LOCKS LAW AND PUBLIC SAFETY Chapter 31A Page 36 of 44 Last Revision Date: 10/03/2016 Construction Code, N.J.A.C. 5:23, exclusive of the Barrier Free Subcode, two hours of training in the Americans with Disabilities Act Code, 36 CFR 1191, two hours of training in industrial safety, two hours of training in New Jersey law and rules governing the provision of burglar alarm, fire alarm, and locksmithing services, and 70 hours of training in trade-related subjects. "Practical hands-on experience" shall not include time spent supervising, engaging in the practice of engineering, estimating, and performing other managerial tasks relevant to the alarm business. The applicant shall submit a certification by an employer verifying the applicant's practical hands-on experience; ii) Proof of having earned a bachelors degree in electrical engineering and having completed one year of practical hands-on experience, as defined in (a)7i above, which shall include a minimum of 1,680 hours. The applicant shall submit a copy of his or her diploma and a certification by an employer verifying the applicant's one year of practical hands-on experience; or iii) Proof of having completed a minimum of one-year course in the study of traderelated electronics at a technical school and having completed three years of practical hands-on experience, as defined in (a)7i above, which shall include a minimum of 5,040 hours. The applicant shall submit a copy of his or her diploma or certificate of completion and a certification by an.....

Now, most folks installing cams dont have these licenses but know that it may be problematic if there are issues with the install/customer..

 

[hmjgriffon]

Hah I hear you there. I looked into it as well. The license wasn't much of an issue as paying for insurance which I believe you need to get the license. For me to do the jobs professionally, I'd have to quit my full-time job so I could do the installs quickly and not just in my spare time.

If you are looking to make money, I would probably up-charge the equipment 50% and then charge between 100-300 per camera depending on the difficulty to install. I know that sounds like a lot but get a quote from a professional company and you will me amazed at some of the prices they throw out for hik systems.

do you do anything else? I was going to do cameras, home automation and security.

 

[hmjgriffon]

Depending on the state, licensing may require working in the security industry for thousands of hours..its not like anyone can simply apply for a license .
For example, to install cameras in NJ you need a burglar alarm license. These are the requirements to obtain the license. See no. 7...
13:31A-3.1 REQUIREMENTS FOR BURGLAR ALARM OR FIRE ALARM LICENSURE a) All applicants seeking licensure to engage in the burglar alarm or fire alarm business shall: 1) Be at least 18 years of age; 2) Be of good moral character pursuant to N.J.S.A. 45:5A-27; 3) Not have been convicted of a crime of the first, second or third degree with 10 years prior to the filing of the application for licensure; 4) Not have been convicted of the fourth degree offense of engaging in the unlicensed practice of electrical contracting; 5) Hold a high school diploma or equivalency certificate; 6) Have successfully completed the burglar alarm or fire alarm examination, as applicable to the field in which the applicant is seeking licensure, set forth in N.J.A.C. 13:31A-3.2; and 7) Have immediately preceding the submission of the application, at least four years of experience in burglar alarm or fire alarm business, which shall be satisfied by one of the following: i) Proof that the applicant has completed at least four years of practical hands-on experience, which shall include a minimum of 6,720 hours, working with tools in the installation, alteration, or repair of wiring for fire alarms, burglar alarms, and/or electronic security systems and proof that the applicant has completed 80 hours of technical courses applicable to the field in which the applicant is seeking licensure. The 80 hours of technical courses shall include two hours of training in the Barrier Free Subcode, N.J.A.C. 5:23-7, two hours of training in the New Jersey Uniform LICENSEES AND BUSINESSES—ALARMS/LOCKS LAW AND PUBLIC SAFETY Chapter 31A Page 36 of 44 Last Revision Date: 10/03/2016 Construction Code, N.J.A.C. 5:23, exclusive of the Barrier Free Subcode, two hours of training in the Americans with Disabilities Act Code, 36 CFR 1191, two hours of training in industrial safety, two hours of training in New Jersey law and rules governing the provision of burglar alarm, fire alarm, and locksmithing services, and 70 hours of training in trade-related subjects. "Practical hands-on experience" shall not include time spent supervising, engaging in the practice of engineering, estimating, and performing other managerial tasks relevant to the alarm business. The applicant shall submit a certification by an employer verifying the applicant's practical hands-on experience; ii) Proof of having earned a bachelors degree in electrical engineering and having completed one year of practical hands-on experience, as defined in (a)7i above, which shall include a minimum of 1,680 hours. The applicant shall submit a copy of his or her diploma and a certification by an employer verifying the applicant's one year of practical hands-on experience; or iii) Proof of having completed a minimum of one-year course in the study of traderelated electronics at a technical school and having completed three years of practical hands-on experience, as defined in (a)7i above, which shall include a minimum of 5,040 hours. The applicant shall submit a copy of his or her diploma or certificate of completion and a certification by an.....

Now, most folks installing cams dont have these licenses but know that it may be problematic if there are issues with the install/customer..

So to get the license, you have to have been doing it for 4 years, but you can't do it without the license, gotta love new jersey, will never live there lol, also this part. "2) Be of good moral character pursuant to N.J.S.A. 45:5A-27;"

 

[drew91101]

Depending on the state, licensing may require working in the security industry for thousands of hours..its not like anyone can simply apply for a license .
For example, to install cameras in NJ you need a burglar alarm license. These are the requirements to obtain the license. See no. 7...
13:31A-3.1 REQUIREMENTS FOR BURGLAR ALARM OR FIRE ALARM LICENSURE a) All applicants seeking licensure to engage in the burglar alarm or fire alarm business shall: 1) Be at least 18 years of age; 2) Be of good moral character pursuant to N.J.S.A. 45:5A-27; 3) Not have been convicted of a crime of the first, second or third degree with 10 years prior to the filing of the application for licensure; 4) Not have been convicted of the fourth degree offense of engaging in the unlicensed practice of electrical contracting; 5) Hold a high school diploma or equivalency certificate; 6) Have successfully completed the burglar alarm or fire alarm examination, as applicable to the field in which the applicant is seeking licensure, set forth in N.J.A.C. 13:31A-3.2; and 7) Have immediately preceding the submission of the application, at least four years of experience in burglar alarm or fire alarm business, which shall be satisfied by one of the following: i) Proof that the applicant has completed at least four years of practical hands-on experience, which shall include a minimum of 6,720 hours, working with tools in the installation, alteration, or repair of wiring for fire alarms, burglar alarms, and/or electronic security systems and proof that the applicant has completed 80 hours of technical courses applicable to the field in which the applicant is seeking licensure. The 80 hours of technical courses shall include two hours of training in the Barrier Free Subcode, N.J.A.C. 5:23-7, two hours of training in the New Jersey Uniform LICENSEES AND BUSINESSES—ALARMS/LOCKS LAW AND PUBLIC SAFETY Chapter 31A Page 36 of 44 Last Revision Date: 10/03/2016 Construction Code, N.J.A.C. 5:23, exclusive of the Barrier Free Subcode, two hours of training in the Americans with Disabilities Act Code, 36 CFR 1191, two hours of training in industrial safety, two hours of training in New Jersey law and rules governing the provision of burglar alarm, fire alarm, and locksmithing services, and 70 hours of training in trade-related subjects. "Practical hands-on experience" shall not include time spent supervising, engaging in the practice of engineering, estimating, and performing other managerial tasks relevant to the alarm business. The applicant shall submit a certification by an employer verifying the applicant's practical hands-on experience; ii) Proof of having earned a bachelors degree in electrical engineering and having completed one year of practical hands-on experience, as defined in (a)7i above, which shall include a minimum of 1,680 hours. The applicant shall submit a copy of his or her diploma and a certification by an employer verifying the applicant's one year of practical hands-on experience; or iii) Proof of having completed a minimum of one-year course in the study of traderelated electronics at a technical school and having completed three years of practical hands-on experience, as defined in (a)7i above, which shall include a minimum of 5,040 hours. The applicant shall submit a copy of his or her diploma or certificate of completion and a certification by an.....

Now, most folks installing cams dont have these licenses but know that it may be problematic if there are issues with the install/customer..

Wow, that's pretty intense. Only NJ would require a bachelor's degree in electrical engineering to install cameras. Where did you find that cameras fall under that provision?
Also, a BIG part of me installing cameras is telling the individual, again usually friends, that I dont professionally install camera systems and don't hold a license but am rather doing a favor and getting compensated for time and equipment. I realize NJ wouldn't see it this way but it sets expectations up front. Having said that, I haven't had any issues with any systems yet.

 

[drew91101]

do you do anything else? I was going to do cameras, home automation and security.

I have offered to do security systems as well...honeywell vista with wireless components..but have only done them on my house and my mothers house

 

[hmjgriffon]

I have offered to do security systems as well...honeywell vista with wireless components..but have only done them on my house and my mothers house

they may as well call it the socialist republic of new jersey, that place is ridiculous, I know a guy who got his gun rights taken away for killing a pidgeon (that he ate) with a bb gun. to hell with that place and new york, the snow flakes can have them both. that being said, I will look into what florida requires but yeah I do not plan to get any license until it becomes more than a few side jobs. Do you write them receipts? I wonder if one of them could be a jerk at some point and come after you like oh I got broken into and I blame you for installing this or that or you know, any number of retarded reasons assholes use to sue other people lol.

 

[drew91101]

I hate living in new jermany. And what are these gun rights you speak of? To legally own a bb gun in NJ, it takes the same process for purchasing an AR-15.
I never wrote receipts. Whenever I installed systems, I was very upfront that I wasn't a professional and the equipment that I was installing held a factory warranty (lts) and not through me. I have one guy who's camera system keeps "failing". I would try to fix it over the phone with him but he didn't know a modem from a router so I would charge him $50 to go find that his kids unplugged his switch. I have yet to have a problem with any of my installs that wasn't the persons fault.

 

[nayr]

none of my friends or neighbors can afford me.. and I dont have time to be there personal tech; so no.. Gonna take a check with 5+ numbers in it to get my attention.

 

[hmjgriffon]

none of my friends or neighbors can afford me.. and I dont have time to be there personal tech; so no.. Gonna take a check with 5+ numbers in it to get my attention.

That's why you charge the dummy fee, every time they have problems, you charge them, but I get it. If I turned it into a business I would definitely want to enjoy an actual coder like yourself to do all the really really cool stuff.

 

[fenderman]

So to get the license, you have to have been doing it for 4 years, but you can't do it without the license, gotta love new jersey, will never live there lol, also this part. "2) Be of good moral character pursuant to N.J.S.A. 45:5A-27;"

You have to work for someone else, just like many other trades....

 

[fenderman]

Wow, that's pretty intense. Only NJ would require a bachelor's degree in electrical engineering to install cameras. Where did you find that cameras fall under that provision?
Also, a BIG part of me installing cameras is telling the individual, again usually friends, that I dont professionally install camera systems and don't hold a license but am rather doing a favor and getting compensated for time and equipment. I realize NJ wouldn't see it this way but it sets expectations up front. Having said that, I haven't had any issues with any systems yet.

You dont need a bachelor degree, its just one of the many options..if you read the regs you will see that cctv cams fall under electronic security systems...for a while ip cameras were not covered but they have since updated cctv to include ip..

 

[spork]

I can understand why there would be strict requirements and training for installing alarms as a business. They are designed to be installed professionally as a lot of guys in the trade will tell you. That being said a lot of these pro's only want to slap a all in one unit by your front door and sell you a expensive monitoring contract.

Now that they are modernizing some of the newer systems they are trying very hard to lock out anyone thats not a dealer or licensed installer. You need a special account or software and not just anyone can activate them. They want to force people into their proprietary monitoring. So you think no problem I can just slap in a envisalink? Newer panels also have a encrypted keypad bus to keep you from using any kind of 3rd party module. Some of the new all in one units have removed bell / trigger outputs as well. Maybe its just to simplify or possibly prevent someone using a relay to trigger a device for self monitoring? These companies really hate that. At least give us the option rather than forcing us into a paid plan.

Most of the security kits on amazon are absolute junk which is why so many diyer go for a pro panel. Even so the amazon kits are taking revenue from them because they refuse to support the diy crowd. I have a vista and envisalink. Its awesome but I would think even the hardwired panels will be replaced with more restricted versions eventually.

It would be cool to have something like blue iris take the place of my alarm panel. There are even some raspberry pi projects where people have replaced their hardwired alarm with fee's and just coded there own. I would like to order one myself and start learning and experimenting so I'm not reliant on a proprietary panel.

 

[hmjgriffon]

They are going the way of the dodo like libraries, people don't need them anymore, any company that offers to monitor diy installs will make a fortune, fuck them all, this is what the GPL and things like that are all about, I use domoticz, they can kiss my ass, lol.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[smiticans]

Z-wave/home automation systems/video surveillance systems will never take the place of traditional alarms systems. They each have their own purposes and those type of systems just don't have the proper supervision when it comes to fire and CO sensors. There are plenty of professional grade alarm systems available to DIYers and plenty of alarm monitoring services that cater to DIYers, such as, AlarmGrid, GeoArm, Alarm Relay etc. I cringe whenever I see advertisements for "security systems" based on Z-wave technology. Z-wave is just not reliable enough to be used for security.

 

[hmjgriffon]

Z-wave/home automation systems/video surveillance systems will never take the place of traditional alarms systems. They each have their own purposes and those type of systems just don't have the proper supervision when it comes to fire and CO sensors. There are plenty of professional grade alarm systems available to DIYers and plenty of alarm monitoring services that cater to DIYers, such as, AlarmGrid, GeoArm, Alarm Relay etc. I cringe whenever I see advertisements for "security systems" based on Z-wave technology. Z-wave is just not reliable enough to be used for security.

got anything to back that up with? or do you want to change it to, systems that are not properly set up and configured?