Setting up a wifi camera on a network without access to the router

Cam_MJT

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Hi everybody,

So far, I could not find an answer to my specific problem:

I have a small sailing boat on a Greek island and would like to keep an eye on it using a wifi camera. There is a little taverna nearby who kindly provide the network password to their customers of who I am a regular. My idea is to use this network with a little wifi webcam attached to the mast so I can occassionally check on my boat. Even stills/pics are fine. I am very new to this but after reading up I realised that the camera has to be attached to the router of the specific network at least in the beginning for setup. Is this always compulsory or are there ways around this? I would obviously like to avoid it as it would be awkward to ask them for access to their router. Is there any way to finish the setup via an Android phone only or will the router firewall block my video? Alternatively, could you think of a solution where still pictures are emailed to me regularly or does this not solve the problem?

Any reply is very much appreciated. The boat is in a dangerous spot and has been damaged by choppy sea before. It would help me sleep so much better if I could remotely check up on it.

Many thanks in advance!
Best.
 

Fastb

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Cam_MJT,

Welcome to the forum!
You touched on many items and options. Let's break it down.
WiFi cam: In general, they are less dependable than wired. But let's not dig into that.
Camera setup: Your camera must be set up for the network. It must have the password. Usually this is done using a wired connection to a laptop (no WiFi). Configure the camera for the SSID and password.
Email setup: If you want periodic snapshot sent from the camera to you, you must program the camera for a) schedule the snapshots b) set up SMTP (email) with the right info (email address, incoming/outgoing ports, security, etc) This is usually done with the camera connected to your laptop (before connecting to WiFi)
Test: get the system working to your satisfaction while wired, before trying with WiFi
Remote viewing: If you want to surf in to the cam, you'll need access to the router for port forwarding. Yes, this might be the "awkward" conversation with the tavernia. If the camera supports P2P, you may be able to reach the camera remotely, using an Android app on your phone. The app is typically from the same vendor who made the camera.
Solution: emailing photos from the camera to you is simple, and only needs the outgoing connection. To remotely access your camera from the internet requires an incoming connection. That's trickier.
Camera on mast: The image of the boat will be clear, since the mast, camera and boat move as one. However, images of the dock, mooring, waves, etc will be blurry with motion.

Send me a plane ticket, and I'll come to that Greek Island to help you!

Fastb
 

Cam_MJT

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Thank you so much for your long reply. It's a relief that it can be done. Does every camera have the functionality to send pics via email? Can you recommend one? The ideal camera would have to be very small (for easy and inconspicuous mounting), have a wide field of view, and be absolutely weather proof. IR is not necessary as the area is illuminated by strong harbour lights. I want to keep the energy consumption low as the system would have to run on my 12V solar/battery setup. Please let me know if you have a camera and software in mind that would work. Is this one an option: 720P HD Mini Wifi Infrared Waterproof Hidden Spy Video IP Camera Security Cam | eBay ?

Thanks for your help!
 
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Fastb

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Cam_MJT,

You're welcome!

Does every camera have the functionality to send pics via email?
No.
This camera supports POP3. But it doesn't list the SMTP (simple mail transport protocol) which is the underlying protocol for POP or IMAP type of mail support. So it's not 100% clear that the camera can send emails.
Also the cam specs don't include anything about sending snapshots.

The ideal camera would have to be very small (for easy and inconspicuous mounting)
Why must the camera be hidden?
Some believe a visible camera has benefits, in that it might keep the bad guys from doing something to your property.
Others believe a hidden camera will a) catch the bad guys in the act and b) provide images to positively identify the bad guys for the police to use.
This camera, depending how high it is mounted on the mast, probably won't provide a good enough picture to identify the bad guys.
If the cam is to monitor the boat in rough weather, the cam would be mounted high. And aimed straight down, I imagine, to get a view of the water, the dock, and the mooring lines. If so, that mounting location is poor for getting images of faces as they board your boat. You'd get shots of the top of their head, or their hat.

I want to keep the energy consumption low as the system would have to run on my 12V solar/battery setup.
This camera specs say 12V @ 2amps, for 24 Watts. That's a lot for a camera. I doubt the camera will consume that much power, since the package is very small to dissipate that much heat.
But if we believe that power consumption spec, that's a lot of power if you plan on using batteries (with solar cell re-charging). 2amp for 12hour of night requires a 24 Ah battery. This will cost more than the camera itself. The cam needs a big battery.

Please let me know if you have a camera and software in mind that would work
No, I don't have experience with a) battery powered applications, b) small covert cams, c) cheap cams.

Temp spec:
The cam doesn't list a temp range. Putting that black cam in the sunshine, and high temps of the Greek Islands meanns you should be checking the high end of the cam's temp range.

Sensor:
1/4" is small. I can't comment on the sensor type, if it produces good images or not.

Nightime performance:

Minimum illumination( Lux): 0.01
Not impressive. But for a small lens opening (the aperture is not specified), the camera can't gather a lot of light at night.
Nightime perf probably stinks.

WiFi:
802.11 b & g only.
These are old standards. Bandwidth and range are limited.
If the camera is constantly streaming live video (since snapshots aren't supported), then the taverna WiFi performance may be degraded by the bandwidth this cam consumes.
If the camera only streams video when you connect remotely with you Android app on your phone (or surf in with IE), this reduces that problem.
But that type of connection, assuming you use P2P, should be tested.

Price:
Suspiciously low. I suspect it may be junk.

Quality:
The cam is listed as "Brand: Unbranded/Generic"
Warning bells go off in my head.
Product support/assistance will not be available.
The manual is probably useless.
Getting P2P to work may be a problem.

Positive note:
It's cheap. You can use it as a learning experience. If you throw it away (since returning it may be impossible), you won't lose a lot of money.

Application:
Lots of things for you to sort out. I definitely suggest you get the system working on a table before bringing it to the tavernia or mounting it on the boat.

Do a google search using this as the search terms:
battery operated camera, site:ipcamtalk.com

Fastb
 

Fastb

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Another thought:
P2P consumes bandwidth to maintain the connection.
How much bandwidth depends on the camera and P2P service.
It shouldn't be so much that the tavernia or customers notice slower network performance.
But the P2P traffic would add to the data consumed by the tavernia.
If they have an "unlimited data" plan, they won't care.
If they pay by data used, then they are paying for your camera's data consumption.

I had a system connected via cellular. P2P consumed more MB than the snapshots that were emailed to me, or the occasional viewing of live video by me, remotely. It approached 1GB/mo
A cellular expense that caused me to not use P2P (among other things. P2P is easy for consumers, but not good for long term reliability or security)
 

Dodutils

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This camera supports POP3. But it doesn't list the SMTP (simple mail transport protocol) which is the underlying protocol for POP or IMAP type of mail support. So it's not 100% clear that the camera can send emails.
Cameras do not support POP3 nor IMAP because it is used to retrieve e-mails (why should a camera retrieve e-mail anyway), it is SMTP that is used to send e-mails.

You also have more and more ISP or e-mail providers that requires Secured SMTP (SMTP STARTTLS or SSL over SMTP) and may also require Auth SMTP especially if you send an e-mail with a "from" that do not belong to supported ISP's domain names of the Bar tender connection, all this and this cheap camera may not support any of those protocols.

@Cam_MJT the camera you linked to on Amazon is certainely NOT waterproof and NOT "salted air" proof too by the way ;-) it is the cheapest crap you may find, used as IP video source from an NVR can do the job but the internal firmware of this camera is crap it is certainely something like the "TOP-201" camera model (there is a huge thread here about this camera), very cheap, fun to use, no fear to hack in case you break it but not the most realiable.

Also you'll have to deal why motion detection, how do you want to be alerted ? your are on a boat with many light change conditions (sun/cloud) that will produce tons of false alerts.

I do not think this model is really 24W I guess it's closer to 12W.

And as you may not be close to your boat in case of any system crash/freeze/non reponsive you'd better invest in a much higher quality model.

And for the first "stand alone" configuration if the camera is only WiFi then it will certainely start in a "HotSpot" mode howing its own SSID on which you connect to, get into the config page of the camera and set SSID/password of the router on which the camera will have to connect to so you can do it on boat.

If camera have Ethernet+WiFi then you can link Ethernet cable to connect camera to your Notebook (may need crosslink cable), and then camera may have default IP on which you can connect (but will have to setup your computer IP config in same IP mask) or camera may come with some auto-discover/config tool to install on your computer that will send a broadcast network packet to discover camera and send it some parameters you may have set in the config tool.
 
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spankdog

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This may be a situation where something like the Nest camera would work well. I dont believe it requires you to do anything with the router. Once you connect it to wifi you're done.
 

Cam_MJT

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Thank you so much for your help!! Just to clarify, I am in no way fixed on this specific camera. I quite liked it because of it's size. On second thought, I will most likely not attach it to the top of the mast but under the boom pointing forward. Like that I can see the entrance to the cabin, the front mooring lines, the general position of the boat in relation to the quay, and most importantly the waves ahead. A small sized camera will not be in the way during sailing. I understand that the camera I linked to my post is not suitable for several reasons. I am very open to any camera and software solution. I had a look at the Nest camera but I don't really want to record continously as the network I use is shared by many, and I don't want to overload it. A still sent to my email account (or some webspace I can access) every hour would be more than enough. By the way I have two parallel 100A batteries so even 2A would be fine, given that I am not planning to record continuously, and that the Greek sun is very strong. As most cameras I have seen so far work with 12V, my energy source is not an issue. I am not interested in motion detection as I don't want to use it to identify thieves.

So please if you have any camera and software in mind I would be very grateful.
 
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