Should I switch from BI to Dahua or Hikvsion NVR?

[korin]

I've been running Blue Iris since 2016, and currently have 7 no-name cameras covering my home interior and exterior running on an Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4790 CPU with 6GB of RAM. I use the indoor cameras for pet/pet-sitter monitoring and the exterior ones for identification in case of trespassers. I've decided it's time to upgrade the server, cameras, and coverage and I'm considering whether moving to a commercial NVR like the Dahua N52B3P would have benefits for me. Some of the things I like about an NVR include:

• The ability to add several fisheye overview cameras and dewarp/PTZ the live stream and playback. I understand that BI dewarp functionality is not always on par with what you get from the manufacturer's NVR. For example, it can only dewarp during export, which seems like it would limit real-time image tasks like zone detection using that feed
• Intelligent features like motion detection that can distinguish people and vehicles, automatic tracking, facial recognition/alerting, plate number recognition/alerting. The BI intelligence features seem limited and onboard camera intelligence is only accessible directly through the camera web interface, but maybe I'm overlooking something.
• Network rackable to save space. I have a 9U network rack with 2U available, but my BI server is currently a large standalone desktop. I'm having trouble finding a 1U server less than 17" deep that supports an Intel Core i7 processor to run BI on.
• Integrated PoE switch could help save ports on my core network switch and isolate the cameras from the LAN, though I have a 24 port managed PoE+ switch, so this isn't a huge factor until I start to inch close to 16 cameras and run out of ports for my other devices
• Secure remote access and user management to allow trusted neighbors to view select camera feeds and recordings. I don't think BI is sufficiently hardened to be placed on the internet and connecting to a VPN is probably beyond the ability of my neighbors, though I could try it.
• Access control - I would like to install a video intercom and an access control system with remote lock/unlock and entry via RFID/passcode/bluetooth/biometric, etc. The Dahua SmartPSS software appears to integrate their intercom, access control, and NVR systems, and this seems like it would be beneficial, but maybe SmartPSS doesn't provide integration so much as just a convenient interface to access the two systems, and if so it wouldn't exclude the use of BI for recording.
• Mobile access - This is a big factor. The BI website works fine for monitoring from mobile devices, but it's not great, especially when trying to scrub for a specific event or follow activity across multiple cameras. The mobile app has its own quirks, though I havent used it in a couple years so I don't know if it's improved. Neither integrates with video intercom systems as far as I know, so that would mean having two different tools for camera monitoring and intercom/access control, while the Dahua DMSS app does both.

I do appreciate that BI lets me use just about any camera I want, but I'm already planning to replace all of my cameras, so I can stick with a single manufacturer and get the benefits of their advanced features at the cost of limiting my hardware options somewhat. In that case, I do still have to choose a vendor, and Dahua and Hikvision both seem to have good cameras and access control systems, but Dahua appears to be the only one with a 1U form-factor NVR or built-in PoE switch. I've also already spent hours reading manuals and watching YouTube videos on how to configure and integrate the Dahua products and I really don't want to do it all over again with Hikvision.

Can anyone share their experience to help me understand whether moving from BI to an NVR would provide the benefits I'm looking for, or maybe whether I can already get this from BI and just haven't figured it out yet?

 

[fenderman]

I've been running Blue Iris since 2016, and currently have 7 no-name cameras covering my home interior and exterior running on an Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4790 CPU with 6GB of RAM. I use the indoor cameras for pet/pet-sitter monitoring and the exterior ones for identification in case of trespassers. I've decided it's time to upgrade the server, cameras, and coverage and I'm considering whether moving to a commercial NVR like the Dahua N52B3P would have benefits for me. Some of the things I like about an NVR include:

• The ability to add several fisheye overview cameras and dewarp/PTZ the live stream and playback. I understand that BI dewarp functionality is not always on par with what you get from the manufacturer's NVR. For example, it can only dewarp during export, which seems like it would limit real-time image tasks like zone detection using that feed
• Intelligent features like motion detection that can distinguish people and vehicles, automatic tracking, facial recognition/alerting, plate number recognition/alerting. The BI intelligence features seem limited and onboard camera intelligence is only accessible directly through the camera web interface, but maybe I'm overlooking something.
• Network rackable to save space. I have a 9U network rack with 2U available, but my BI server is currently a large standalone desktop. I'm having trouble finding a 1U server less than 17" deep that supports an Intel Core i7 processor to run BI on.
• Integrated PoE switch could help save ports on my core network switch and isolate the cameras from the LAN, though I have a 24 port managed PoE+ switch, so this isn't a huge factor until I start to inch close to 16 cameras and run out of ports for my other devices
• Secure remote access and user management to allow trusted neighbors to view select camera feeds and recordings. I don't think BI is sufficiently hardened to be placed on the internet and connecting to a VPN is probably beyond the ability of my neighbors, though I could try it.
• Access control - I would like to install a video intercom and an access control system with remote lock/unlock and entry via RFID/passcode/bluetooth/biometric, etc. The Dahua SmartPSS software appears to integrate their intercom, access control, and NVR systems, and this seems like it would be beneficial, but maybe SmartPSS doesn't provide integration so much as just a convenient interface to access the two systems, and if so it wouldn't exclude the use of BI for recording.
• Mobile access - This is a big factor. The BI website works fine for monitoring from mobile devices, but it's not great, especially when trying to scrub for a specific event or follow activity across multiple cameras. The mobile app has its own quirks, though I havent used it in a couple years so I don't know if it's improved. Neither integrates with video intercom systems as far as I know, so that would mean having two different tools for camera monitoring and intercom/access control, while the Dahua DMSS app does both.

I do appreciate that BI lets me use just about any camera I want, but I'm already planning to replace all of my cameras, so I can stick with a single manufacturer and get the benefits of their advanced features at the cost of limiting my hardware options somewhat. In that case, I do still have to choose a vendor, and Dahua and Hikvision both seem to have good cameras and access control systems, but Dahua appears to be the only one with a 1U form-factor NVR or built-in PoE switch. I've also already spent hours reading manuals and watching YouTube videos on how to configure and integrate the Dahua products and I really don't want to do it all over again with Hikvision.

Can anyone share their experience to help me understand whether moving from BI to an NVR would provide the benefits I'm looking for, or maybe whether I can already get this from BI and just haven't figured it out yet?

Yes switch. Then you will come to appreciate how good BI is. NVR's dont provide secure remote access. Use zerotier with BI.
BI supports both camera AI and its integrates codeproject ai.
You must switch though otherwise you will always be wondering what if.
There are many other pc based vms options other than BI. Most are better than any nvr.

 

[wittaj]

I had NVRs for many years. It was a frustrating experience.

There is a big debate here on which is better. Personally I found the NVRs to be too clunky and not very user friendly and got to the point that I was reactive instead of proactive. I literally tested BI and knew within a few minutes it was better than any NVR I ever had.

Like literally I would go months on end not even looking at the NVR videos because the interface was too clunky and would take forever to pull up any motion from the night before. And ended up turning off the alerts because there were so many false triggers. I would only look at it if I could tell someone messed with something on my property or a neighbor asked me if my cameras caught anything.

With BI, in addition to being able to configure it such that I get notifications whenever someone gets too close to my house, I can literally in less than 30 seconds every morning do a quick review to see if there was any suspicious activity or people walking down the sidewalk at 2am. I could never do it that fast with an NVR.

Here is the search tool of all the NVR versus BI comparisons:

blue iris vs nvr ip cam site:ipcamtalk.com - Google Search


I have had whatever the NVR operating system is running on go out. TWICE. Got to buy a whole new NVR - TWICE

I have had the ethernet port go out on an NVR. Got to buy a whole new NVR.

i had the HDMI port go out on an NVR. Got to buy a whole new NVR.

Most I ever got was 2.5 years. The only working part was the HDD that I simply moved from the old NVR to the new one. I got to the point of realizing that an NVR is simply a stripped down computer, so I went to BI and never looked back. I got tired of buying a whole new unit.

So in my BI Computer, at least if the SSD goes out, I can just replace it. If the ethernet card goes out, I can just replace it. If the HDMI port goes out, I can just replace it. etc.

Personally I gave up on NVRs because I have found them to be clunky and a struggle to review clips and if a component goes out like the internet port, then you are stuck buying a new NVR whereas a computer part goes out and you replace just that component. I went to BI on a dedicated machine and haven't looked back.

Keep in mind an NVR is simply a watered down computer....



You can use the camera AI to trigger events in BI.

An NVR is way less secure on the internet than a BI computer. NVRs are rarely provided with updates to fix vulnerabilities. Your BI computer can get constant antivirus updates or Windows updates if you want to (though most of us disable them and it is still more secure than an NVR).

One of many areas where I think BI does a better job is how it displays the alerts/timeline, and I believe it is still the same as when I last ran SmartPSS and DMSS.

As we can see from this screenshot, it gives a green timeline with lines at various times to show when it triggered. Over to the right is a graphic/text representation of each trigger, but no image of the trigger.



So when I wanted to find or look at something, I needed to click each one until I found what I was looking for.

Wanna know when UPS came by in an NVR....well just start clicking on the timeline triggers till you see the UPS truck. May take awhile depending on the amount of traffic that goes by.

With BI, it gives alert thumbnails, so I can quickly scroll and find UPS way quicker than I ever could with an NVR playback timeline.

Or if you want to be notified when UPS, or FEDEX, or USPS comes by, with BI AI, you can set up an alert just for those vehicles. Good luck doing that with an NVR.

But to me, the thumbnails are invaluable. I can quickly scroll it at night and look for any activity instead of having to click each one and be like "oh that is John coming home" If I recognize the vehicle or person in the image, no need to investigate further.

 

[saltwater]

+1 for the overnight alert checking. I have time in the mornings before work to quickly check overnight activity, thankfully it's reasonably quiet where I live.

 

[Flintstone61]

review incidents on my NVR. There doesnt seem to be a menu option to synchronize the cameras to playback at the same moment. So they all start showing an image at different times so its not easy to see how things unfolded.
on the BI machine its more chronological to my mind.

 

[IAmATeaf]

Also some of the AI features will be features of the cam so you might have to get a specific NVR and cams to make use of the listed features.

My Dahua 5442 cams have car and person detection so have configured clones with BI to trigger on external ONVIF triggers from the cams when it detects a person or a car on my driveway and it works really well. I have alerts set for these cams so only ever receive alerts when these events occur on my driveway.

Many here also use CodeProject AI, I personally don’t but you can achieve a similar level of controlled alerts using AI.

In terms of secure remote access, the NVR will simply ask you to set up port forwarding, the security being that you need a username/password so essentially the same can be setup with BI.

 

[jarrow]

(Might be off topic, wanted to address this)

review incidents on my NVR. There doesnt seem to be a menu option to synchronize the cameras to playback at the same moment. So they all start showing an image at different times so its not easy to see how things unfolded.

This feature is available with SmartPSS by clicking the SYNC button next to the play/pause buttons and also when attaching a monitor to the NVR and playing back from there.

 

[looney2ns]

What version of BI are you currently running?
A dell Optiplex SFF on a shelf in a rack would work.

 

[Ri22o]

I had NVRs for many years. It was a frustrating experience.

There is a big debate here on which is better. Personally I found the NVRs to be too clunky and not very user friendly and got to the point that I was reactive instead of proactive. I literally tested BI and knew within a few minutes it was better than any NVR I ever had.

Like literally I would go months on end not even looking at the NVR videos because the interface was too clunky and would take forever to pull up any motion from the night before. And ended up turning off the alerts because there were so many false triggers. I would only look at it if I could tell someone messed with something on my property or a neighbor asked me if my cameras caught anything.

With BI, in addition to being able to configure it such that I get notifications whenever someone gets too close to my house, I can literally in less than 30 seconds every morning do a quick review to see if there was any suspicious activity or people walking down the sidewalk at 2am. I could never do it that fast with an NVR.

Here is the search tool of all the NVR versus BI comparisons:

blue iris vs nvr ip cam site:ipcamtalk.com - Google Search


I have had whatever the NVR operating system is running on go out. TWICE. Got to buy a whole new NVR - TWICE

I have had the ethernet port go out on an NVR. Got to buy a whole new NVR.

i had the HDMI port go out on an NVR. Got to buy a whole new NVR.

Most I ever got was 2.5 years. The only working part was the HDD that I simply moved from the old NVR to the new one. I got to the point of realizing that an NVR is simply a stripped down computer, so I went to BI and never looked back. I got tired of buying a whole new unit.

So in my BI Computer, at least if the SSD goes out, I can just replace it. If the ethernet card goes out, I can just replace it. If the HDMI port goes out, I can just replace it. etc.

Personally I gave up on NVRs because I have found them to be clunky and a struggle to review clips and if a component goes out like the internet port, then you are stuck buying a new NVR whereas a computer part goes out and you replace just that component. I went to BI on a dedicated machine and haven't looked back.

Keep in mind an NVR is simply a watered down computer....



You can use the camera AI to trigger events in BI.

An NVR is way less secure on the internet than a BI computer. NVRs are rarely provided with updates to fix vulnerabilities. Your BI computer can get constant antivirus updates or Windows updates if you want to (though most of us disable them and it is still more secure than an NVR).

One of many areas where I think BI does a better job is how it displays the alerts/timeline, and I believe it is still the same as when I last ran SmartPSS and DMSS.

As we can see from this screenshot, it gives a green timeline with lines at various times to show when it triggered. Over to the right is a graphic/text representation of each trigger, but no image of the trigger.

View attachment 154121

So when I wanted to find or look at something, I needed to click each one until I found what I was looking for.

Wanna know when UPS came by in an NVR....well just start clicking on the timeline triggers till you see the UPS truck. May take awhile depending on the amount of traffic that goes by.

With BI, it gives alert thumbnails, so I can quickly scroll and find UPS way quicker than I ever could with an NVR playback timeline.

Or if you want to be notified when UPS, or FEDEX, or USPS comes by, with BI AI, you can set up an alert just for those vehicles. Good luck doing that with an NVR.

But to me, the thumbnails are invaluable. I can quickly scroll it at night and look for any activity instead of having to click each one and be like "oh that is John coming home" If I recognize the vehicle or person in the image, no need to investigate further.

Given all of the points you made, and the situation my friend is in, would you recommend an NVR or BI for someone who isn't necessarily as into this as we are and needs a more "set it and forget it" piece of hardware that they won't find themselves tinkering with. The ability for her to skim through clips in the morning seems to be easier with BI from my experience. Another upside to BI that I can see is I could always TeamView in and work on her settings remotely, if needed.

 

[wittaj]

In my experience, it is way faster to review clips in the morning with BI than it is an NVR.

I am obviously a big fan of BI, but there are instances where an NVR is sufficient. Especially if they don't care about alerts and stuff and simply want to have something there to look at after the fact.

 

[looney2ns]

If you go BI, you can use your own instance of BI to log into her system from home, and make most settings as if you were sitting right at her BI machine. No teamviewer required.
An NVR is not plug in play and would be harder to remote into to manage settings.
It would mean more work for you, as you would need to learn the ins and outs of the NVR if you arn't used to that.
You do realize you are going to be the on going tech support for whatever she decides.

 

[Mark_M]

Cost effectiveness is my suggestion to you.


I have a Dahua NVR5x-I.
The NVR is very good for being an NVR to handle video analytics detection and trigger events.

But this model costs $2,200 new in my country..... it is totally not worth the price for what a VMS can do on cost-effective hardware.
As an 'All in one' solution is is perfectly fine.
But a VMS would out perform this in unique detection/events, like multiple cameras triggering before a notification, or being able to update the detection algorithms.
I bought this because the demo-unit price was the same price as two 6tb Skyhawks drives.... and it came with two 6tb Skyhawk drives.


Regarding your circumstances;
No stand alone NVR would handle the remote access part well and access control isn't something in non-enterprise NVRs.
ANPR, Facial Rec, Autotracking and IVS is something a 5 series Dahua NVR can do.
(Autotracking is done by a supported camera).

 

[Luniz97]

I moved to a synology system for surveillance and couldn’t be more happy. Also added Tailscale as a one click security solution for free.