Suggestions to mitigate poor night time quality vs day light.

Redbone

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My daytime vs night recording quality is dramatic. I'm not able to identify faces at night and get a lot of ghosting. Little difference with I.R. lights or even outside garage lights on.
Suggestions welcome for those who have solved similar issues.
Camera model IPC-HDW2831TM-AS-S2 8MP Lite IR Fixed-focal Eyeball Network Camera.
 

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wittaj

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That is a budget camera that puts 8MP on the same size sensor meant for a 2MP, so the 2MP will kick its butt all night long. That camera will just simply struggle at night.

With that said, it appears you are on default/auto settings and that never results in a good picture and that is why you get ghost blurs at night.

Now in terms of getting the most out of the camera, here is my "standard" post that many use as a start for dialing in day and night that helps get the clean captures. You need to get off of default. These are done within the camera GUI thru a web browser.

Start with:

H264
8192 bitrate
CBR
15FPS
15 iframes

Every field of view is different, but I have found you need contrast to usually be 6-8 higher than the brightness number at night.

We want the ability to freeze frame capture a clean image from the video at night, and that is only done with a shutter of 1/60 or faster. At night, default/auto may be on 1/12s shutter or worse to make the image bright.

In my opinion, shutter (exposure) and gain are the two most important parameters and then base the others off of it. Shutter is more important than FPS. It is the shutter speed that prevents motion blur, not FPS. 15 FPS is more than enough for surveillance cameras as we are not producing Hollywood movies. Match iframes to FPS. 15FPS is all that is usually needed.

Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.

Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-4ms exposure and 0-30 gain (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared or white light.

Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night static image results in Casper blur and ghost during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?

In the daytime, if it is still too bright, then drop the 4ms down to 3ms then 2ms, etc. You have to play with it for your field of view.

Then at night, if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 16.67ms (but certainly not above 30ms) as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.

You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image.

You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.

But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.

Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible.

After every setting adjustment, have someone walk around outside and see if you can freeze-frame to get a clean image. If not, keep changing until you do. Clean motion pictures are what we are after, not a clean static image.
 

mat200

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My daytime vs night recording quality is dramatic. I'm not able to identify faces at night and get a lot of ghosting. Little difference with I.R. lights or even outside garage lights on.
Suggestions welcome for those who have solved similar issues.
Camera modelIPC-HDW2831TM-AS-S2 8MP Lite IR Fixed-focal Eyeball Network Camera.
In general, with a 8MP 1/2.7" sensor expect challenges with low light image capture.

I would only use this for places you have significant light ..

FYI -

Camera specs:


1681307691291.png
 

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Injunfarian

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Start with:

H264
8192 bitrate
CBR
15FPS
15 iframes
Now would this also apply to other Dahua/OEM Cameras? I have a Loryta IPC-T2431T-AS-2.8mm-S2 from Andy at EmpireTech and I wouldn't mind it being dialed in as well. I understand not to expect alot from this budget camera but if I could get the most out of it with settings that would be great... Also may I ask why H264 vs H265? and I assume that is simply just H264 and not H264H or H264B correct?
 

wittaj

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Yes this is a good starting point for all Dahua OEM cameras. The same concept is the same for other cameras, but they may call parameters other things and some cameras like Reolink and other consumer cameras won't adhere and honor all the settings a user puts in.

This will explain H264 versus H265 a little better.

H265 in theory provides more storage as it compresses differently, but part of that compression means it macro blocks big areas of the image that it thinks isn't moving. However, it also takes more processing power of the already small CPU in the camera and that can be problematic if someone is maxing out the camera in other areas like FPS and then it stutters.

In theory it is supposed to need 30% less storage than H264, but most of us have found it isn't that much. My savings were less than few minutes per day. And to my eye and others that I showed clips to and just said do you like video 1 or video 2 better, everyone thought the H264 provided a better image.

The left image is H264, so all the blocks are the same size corresponding to the resolution of the camera. H265 takes areas that it doesn't think has motion and makes them into bigger blocks and in doing so lessens the resolution yet increases the camera CPU demand to develop these larger blocks.

In theory H265 is supposed to need half the bitrate because of the macroblocking. But if there is a lot of motion in the image, then it becomes a pixelated mess. The only way to get around that is a higher bitrate. But if you need to run the same bitrate for H265 as you do H264, then the storage savings is zero. Storage is computed based on multiplying bitrate, FPS, and resolution.


1667974399793.png



In my testing I have one camera that sees a parked car in front of my house. H265 sees that the car isn't moving, so it macroblocks the whole car and surrounding area. Then the car owner walked up to the car and got in and the motion is missed because of the macroblock being so large. Or if it catches it, because the bitrate is low, it is a pixelated mess during the critical capture point and by the time H265 adjusts to there is now motion, the ideal capture is missed.

In my case, the car is clear and defined in H264, but is blurry and soft edges in H265.

Digital zooming is never really good and not something we recommend, but you stand a better chance of some digital zoom with H264 rather than a large macroblocked H265. I can digital zoom on my overview camera and kinda make out the address number of the house across the street with H264, but not a chance with H265 as it macroblocked his whole house.

H265 is one of those theory things that sounds good, but reality use is much different.

As always, YMMV.
 

Injunfarian

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Awesome thank you for the wonderful insights, it definitely helps a new user like myself to understand, also the bitrate of 8192 is correct for my 4MP camera as well or should that be lower?
 

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I was looking for a cheap budget cam specifically for night conditions. After reading lots of the advice in this forum, I decided to try the "lite" Dahua HFW2231S model, which puts just 2MP (that is fullHD) on a sensor of the same size (1/2.8"). And the result is much better than what some 4 MP cams with smaller sensors delivered. After all, I am not shopping for a vacation cam. I want to see moving things at night. They don't have to look pretty. They have to be sharp enough.
I am not sure if anyone mentioned ROI (region of interest) yet, but I found that to be quite useful too, if you expect visitors only in certain regions.
From my own testing, I have to agree though that the 5442 models do deliver even better night footage.
 

looney2ns

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Awesome thank you for the wonderful insights, it definitely helps a new user like myself to understand, also the bitrate of 8192 is correct for my 4MP camera as well or should that be lower?
8192 is a good starting point, depending on your scene, you may want to bump it higher.
Make certain you do ALL settings directly in the cameras own setup page, not in the NVR.
 

Injunfarian

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8192 is a good starting point, depending on your scene, you may want to bump it higher.
Make certain you do ALL settings directly in the cameras own setup page, not in the NVR.
Yeah I am doing it via the Dahua Camera's Webserver and not via Blue Iris. The only issue is the max setting for bitrate is 6144 and if i do custom to add 8192 then it reverts back to 6144... Attached is what the settings are for video, also is there any particular settings for Audio that you recommend? since mine is setup for G.711A currently and seems to be working well.

Also what about motion/events? should we allow the Camera to send ONVIF events? or do you disable that to reduce the load on the camera as well and just let BI/CodeProject handle it all?
 

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wittaj

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Yeah I am doing it via the Dahua Camera's Webserver and not via Blue Iris. The only issue is the max setting for bitrate is 6144 and if i do custom to add 8192 then it reverts back to 6144... Attached is what the settings are for video, also is there any particular settings for Audio that you recommend? since mine is setup for G.711A currently and seems to be working well.

Also what about motion/events? should we allow the Camera to send ONVIF events? or do you disable that to reduce the load on the camera as well and just let BI/CodeProject handle it all?
Make sure you are using Internet Explorer and not Edge or Chrome with IE plug in or compatibility mode.

Any other browser and we see issues of settings not holding.

It is up to you on if you want to use the camera AI or CodeProject. For many the camera AI is more than adequate.
 

Perimeter

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The only issue is the max setting for bitrate is 6144 and if i do custom to add 8192 then it reverts back to 6144...
Same here with the 2231cam. We have the same bandwidth but you (2831) have 4x the pixels to transmit.
 

Injunfarian

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Make sure you are using Internet Explorer and not Edge or Chrome with IE plug in or compatibility mode.

Any other browser and we see issues of settings not holding.

It is up to you on if you want to use the camera AI or CodeProject. For many the camera AI is more than adequate.
Thank you for the tip but unfortunately that is no beuno. I added both of the Dahua Cam's IP address to the Internet Explorer mode list and tried.. same issue just goes back to 6144 but all of the other fields are changing correctly... even that field if i change it lower than 6144.

Same here with the 2231cam. We have the same bandwidth but you (2831) have 4x the pixels to transmit.
I am actually running 2431, I thought it would be a good middle ground between the 2231 and 2831 but now I am kind of wondering if I should have just got the 2231's. It was the original poster Redbone that has the 2831's
 

wittaj

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OK maybe since that is a budget camera it limits the bitrate.
 

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Make sure you are using Internet Explorer and not Edge or Chrome with IE plug in or compatibility mode.
I see this suggestion a lot. Is that a Windows thing? I use Macs and only use Chrome. As far as I can tell, I'm not having any issues.
 

looney2ns

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It can depend on the camera and cameras firmware version.
I also use chrome for the most part, and don't have issues.
But some of the newer cams are very finicky and need to use plain old Internet Explorer.
 

Perimeter

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now I am kind of wondering if I should have just got the 2231's.
I guess it depends on what you want. I already had a 4MP cam with too small a sensor. I wanted night vision above all and was willing to sacrifice resolution any time. So I looked for cheap dahua offers with 2MP on 1/2.8" sensor. I found the 2231 and the 2230. From what I read here, I picked the 2231. Later I also found the 4231, which has a real starvis sensor. But it is older and I could not get much info on it. Perhaps someone here can tell me more about it.
 

wittaj

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I see this suggestion a lot. Is that a Windows thing? I use Macs and only use Chrome. As far as I can tell, I'm not having any issues.
It is more a firmware issue. Way back when the cameras were developed, they centered the firmware around Internet Explorer. They don't want to re-write new code, so sometimes issues happen when using other browsers.

And it doesn't happen to every camera, so maybe you have models that aren't as dependent on browser as some other models. Or maybe Chrome on a mac processes differently?
 
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