Super New, Overwhelmed, Review my first attempt?

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by lkjew32, Sep 13, 2018.

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  1. lkjew32

    lkjew32 n3wb

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    Just starting this crazy process. Stats:
    • Have read a lot of the Ciff Notes (big help!)
    • Home User with requirements:
      • Subtle, low-profile (not trying to look like the crazy camera guy), thinking of dome-style mounted righ tto the wall
      • According to IPVM thinking of 4 cameras (dont care about license plates or
      • Price Range: Maybe ~$100 per camera (but looking more like I have to spend 200 to get 4k/ir?) and $400 for the NVR
      • Would like to integrate with 'Home Assistant' if possible. https://static.makeuseof.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/dashingio-png-640x393.png
      • Would like IR (would rather not install separate lights, but seems like thats the only way to get decent lighting)
      • Probably 4K
      • Will probably go with Blue Iris recommendation but like to ideally use a linux solution in a docker container on my synology box (but it's probably to demanding with resources)
      • Plan is to run from NVR in basement where my network rack is and go outside to the attic (already ahve wires running that way) then run things outside from the attic and one long cable along the house to the other side of house (should be able to do lots in the attac (Injectors etc)
    • First Attempt at setup
    • Questions:
      • I assume I can mix and match models for a parituclar brand, but the Cliff Notes says not to use different camera models with a different NVR. Do I have this right?
      • I don't have a doorbell at my house Are there any IP doorbell camera wireless options? I see doorbell cameras in the CliffNotes but dont think any are wireless
      • I have motion sensor lights that came with my house. Are these good or bad with a camera setup?
      • With everything going to an NVR, what's to stop someone breaking in my house and grabbing all that gear or smashing it so I have no records of the break-in? Are there cloud syncs of any form with these NVRs?
      • Is Nvidia (discrete GPU) REQUIRED for Blue Iris?
      • I prefer to buy things off Amazon, but I take it Aliexpress is just so much cheaper (for the NVR?)?
    Thanks for any help anyone can give.
     
  2. CCTVCam

    CCTVCam Pulling my weight

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    It appears you have read but chosen to ignore the Cliff Notes.

    Turrets are better than domes outside for numerous reasons - reflections, UV ageing and subsequent increase in opacity of the dome degrading the picture, dirt collection. Turrets are not really much different in size to domes but don't suffer the same shortcomings.

    Megapixels - if you don't need good night vision or you either have 2mp STARLIGHT cameras as well or a a huge amount of external lighting power, then 4K cameras are great. In the absence of the latter, 4K will produce comparatively poor pictures at night compared to the 2mp STARVIS. 4K will give better face retrieval, but only if the lighting is good. You're other option and one I guessing you don't want to go for stealth and cost, is a PTZ. These can offer the 2mp STARVIS but because of the optical zoom, can capture recognisable images of people at huge distances making them ideal as a face recognition camera at the front access point of a property. That said, they can track an innocent target at distance whilst another nefarious target comes in under the zoom black spot after the tracking has been tripped, so best paired with a fixed wide angle.

    Blue Iris - more flexible / powerful than an NVR and won't out date. There are issues with NVR's being hacked.

    I'll be quite up front, I'm a lurker with a strong interest in CCTV rather than a current owner, dashcams aside. I have a few fake cameras if that helps and use a bit of CCTV occasionally at work. However, experience on here has taught me that the current Cliff Notes point to the best solutions in most cases.
     
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  3. awsum140

    awsum140 Getting comfortable

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    Read the Wiki and the Cliff Notes it contains. 2MP Starvis turrets will easily outperform the 4MP stuff at night. I have multiple Starvis cameras with the IR shut off because the night image is that good,especially with ambient light from street lighting. I wouldn't install PoE injector in an attic on a bet, too hot up there for active electronics in my estimation. Get a decent PoE switch and be done with it. Blue Iris on an i5, used/refurb box, will outperform any NVR and allow "home automation" interfaces. Again, read the Cliff Notes and numerous discussions here regarding an appropriate machine. You may not be a fan of Winduhhhs but in this case it is the optimal solution for Blue Iris on a stand alone box. Oh yeah, don't use CCA cable for the cameras, solid copper, 23 gauge, only, and in your case CMR rated.
     
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  4. aristobrat

    aristobrat Known around here

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    NVRs (at least the ones in the price range most folks here play in) rely on the cameras to do motion detection. If the camera and NVR manufactures are different, that almost always means the camera's advanced motion detection features (Dahua calls theirs IVS, Hikvision calls theirs Smart Events) can NOT be used. This limits the NVR to using that camera's basic motion detection, which usually stinks... most folks find basic motion detection overly sensitive at first, and by the time its tuned to reduce the tons of false alerts, it often starts missing true motion that they want to record.

    Blue Iris can do its own motion detection, and its motion detection is typically more configurable than most camera's advanced motion detection features. It's not a problem to mix camera manufactures with Blue Iris and still have advanced motion detection.

    Most of the doorbell cameras reviewed here are wireless, but most require the doorbell wires to power the camera. There was one that was battery powered, IIRC. None of the models seemed totally ready for primetime yet, IMO.

    I have motion sensor lights. I'm keeping them for their usefulness when I'm walking up to the porch at night -- I like the lights automatically turning on, but my camera takes a second or two to adjust from "darkness" to "now it's suddenly bright". During that time it's hard to make stuff out on the camera.

    If you're going to get Dahua stuff, consider getting it through the forum vendor here (@EMPIRETECANDY). If you run into problems with your equipment, he'll help. With other vendors, it's hit or miss. He's been an essential Dahua resource on the forum here for the last two years. He's got a sub-forum on here you can check out for more info.

    nVIDIA support is new (added a few weeks ago) to Blue Iris. The general recommendation is NOT to use a video card with Blue Iris -- as long as your particular Intel processor supports QuickSync, it'll do better with onboard video than it will do with an actual add-on video card. In the Wiki (top blue bar) there should be a few articles about Blue Iris and how best to configure it/build a box.

    x3 on having at least one Starlight 2MP model in your mix, if you need video in low-light conditions. The pixel sizes on the higher MP cameras are usually smaller than the 2MP Starlights, which prevents them from capturing as much light in the image as the 2MP Starlights do. Dahua's just now coming out with some higher-res models that look like they might do as well as a 2MP Starlight, but they're really new (and only bullet form factors for now).
     
  5. lkjew32

    lkjew32 n3wb

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    Thanks so much for your help everyone!

    @CCTVCam
    • Dont assume I ignored the Cliff Notes just because I didn't come to the ideal conclusions, that's not correct
    • I will look into turret again - so if starlight is dome, and dome isn't as good as turret, would you have any recommendation for a Dauha turret? If PTZ are not appreciable bigger or less discreet then I'm willing to consider it (and pay slightly more).
    • My risk tolerance in terms of hacking is pretty high, but thanks for the Blue Iris tip, I didn't know it was so much more flexible
    @awsum140
    • I actually have had lots of things running in the attic (it's very small in a cool area so doesn't get that hot), that said, the only reason I was thinking about it is to have as few cables running from the NVR to the cameras. So best to split downstream as close the camera as possible. If I have this wrong, and I cant save on the number of cables going out to the switch/injector, then there's no reason anything has to be in the attic
    • I'm not against Windows, I just would have an easier setup if it worked on linux (one less machine) but as I suspected, it's probably going to need it's own machine (esp if blue Iris only supports windows)
    • Thanks for the cable tip
    @aristobrat
    • Another vote for Blue Iris, I'm probably going to go that way it looks like
    • That's what I thought about the doorbell cameras. I'll look into what it would cost to get an elecrtian to run wires to it, I have wires on the other side of the wall
    • Great tip on the discrete video (that will save me money too)

    I guess the vote is in and the Starlite is the winner. And Blue Iris it is.

    Thanks again so much for the help!
     
  6. CCTVCam

    CCTVCam Pulling my weight

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    The go to camera on the forum is (after much member testing of the alternatives) is the:

    Dahua IPC-HDW5231R-ZE it's a turret.

    IPC-HDW5231R-ZE

    PTZ's are quite large and not discreet as they contain motors for rotation and zoom and additional optics. However, they will get you the best facial or number plate picture at distance. They are not suitable to use without a wide angle at the same location though for the reasons I mentioned above - they can be zoomed in on a target and something outside of the zoomed view can come in underneath un-captured.

    Hacking is quite common and all surrounds the communication ports of NVR and Cams - that allow remote viewing / software updates. There's a thread on here on Network Security. A high number of cams have been hacked worldwide including commercially located ones, so beware.
     
  7. awsum140

    awsum140 Getting comfortable

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    If you don't need audio capability and are happy with just two video streams, the 2231RP-ZS is about $60USD cheaper than the 5231R-ZE. Same sensor and, basically, varifocal specs plus it has the old "Mickey Mouse" look versus the black glass front of the 5231.

    I'd rather home run all the cameras, but that's just me. Removes a single point of failure instead of one feed to the attic and keeps all the active parts in an easy to access location where I can enjoy a cup of coffee while working on things.
     
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  8. lkjew32

    lkjew32 n3wb

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    @CCTVCam So I might be willing to consider turrent if I can avoid those 'hangar-style mounts' (not sure what you call them; the ones that come out from the wall) and mount it on the wall directly. It does look like the better option. Since I can mix and match cameras I can consider that for one of the more important areas.

    @awsum140 $60 per camera wouldn't break the bank, but I don't think audio is all that helpful (am I wrong?) I'm happy to have it though. What do you mean by 'home run' the cameras

    Thanks again so much for help! There's no way I would be able to come to the best choice with so many things out there. I probably would have done better than the Nest/Ring/etc crap out there, but would have taken a crap shoot on Amazon and would have had a much worse system, I'm sure.
     
  9. archedraft

    archedraft n3wb

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    New here as well but thought I would chime in on my experience with Blue Iris. I agree that a docker would super nice but at this time Blue Iris just seemed way more user friendly than the other Linux options. I have an unRAID server and setup a Windows 10 virtual machine specifically dedicated for Blue Iris. I have been testing it would with a 10+ year old webcam (the webcam is terrible but it is for testing purposes and working). The Blue Iris VM has been rock solid and have been so impressed that I purchased a full license.
     
  10. awsum140

    awsum140 Getting comfortable

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    By "home run" I mean a separate cable for each camera rather the consolidating them in a switch in the attic and a single feed coming down to the basement.
     
  11. CCTVCam

    CCTVCam Pulling my weight

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    By hangar style mounts I think you mean the ones on PTZ's:

    [​IMG]


    Turrets mount very much like domes:

    [​IMG]
     
  12. lkjew32

    lkjew32 n3wb

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    @archedraft I'm definitely going to have to look into unRAID. I really love my synology box because after my disaster with FreeNas (don't try windows and linux network with Freenas), I'm really love these appliances that have less maintence costs. But the idea of running windows and linux servers on a single box is VERY tempting. Thanks for the info.

    @CCTVCam - yeah that's the ones. I was mixing up PTZ. I think I keep seeing all these styles and assuming that they all have pan-tilt-zoom (because they look so fancy that it looks like they would), but most are NOT PTZ, correct? Can PTZ be mounted directly against the wall?
     
  13. CCTVCam

    CCTVCam Pulling my weight

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    No because they need to rotate. This is what a typical ptz will look like:

    https://ipcamtalk.com/attachments/img_3545-jpg.15431/

    There's a whole thread on one here: Dahua 2MP 25x Starlight IR PTZ Network Camera (SD49225T-HN)

    This isn't a recommendation for that camera. From memory there were some waterproofing issues. You'd be better talking to the guys who were involved with that thread to find out if the issues were resolved. The main advantage of a ptz is the long optical zoom which maintains the pixel density. As I said above, it needs to be paired with a wide angle turret though.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
  14. lkjew32

    lkjew32 n3wb

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    Hmm interesting. That placement makes that look more discreet than I thought. Might have to consider them with the proper placeement. I'll keep in mind the wide-angle turret pairing.