surveillance for my church

[KenCT]

Our church has considered adding surveillance for a while now, but after the tragic shooting in Texas the last week, we want to move forward with protecting the safety of the congregation. I’ve been tasked with specifying and purchasing a simple system, but though I live in the world of tech, I'm new to video surveillance. I’ve spent about 2 solid days reading, researching, etc. but my head is still spinning a bit. I believe I’ve narrowed down choices to either dahua or hikvision, but I could use a little advice.

Here are the details.

Our Facility:
Attached are photos that show the property and where we plan to place exterior cameras.



A - front entrance. We’d like to place a high-resolution (5MP+), wide-angle camera here, mounted under the eve. Perhaps if it’s shielded enough from the sun, we could use a low-profile wedge dome, so the camera is less conspicuous. The primary purpose would be for our security guy to monitor any approach to the front door during church services. We’d like him to be able to view the feed on an iPad.

B - side entrance. Here we were thinking of another high-res bullet camera pointing towards the parking lot.

C - lower back entrance. These doors can not normally open from the outside, but this area is very secluded and dark at night. We thought this area would be a good candidate for the IPC-HDW5231R-Z because of it’s excellent low-light performance.

Desired Capabilities:
Primary objective is to be able to monitor the property while the building is occupied during church services. Our security guy MUST be able to monitor camera feeds from an iPad or other tablet.

Secondary objective would be to keep an eye on the property while it is empty. We would want the NVR to record feeds when an alert is triggered and send an alert notification or email to somebody’s phone. This is of much lesser importance as it doesn’t involve safety, but it could be useful if we ever faced a situation of vandalism, burglary, or misuse of the property. We want the whole system to run PoE through the NVR. If an 8-channel NVR could be up to the job, I doubt we’ll ever need more than 8 cameras, however I’m inclined to have more capacity/power than we necessarily need. I realize a 16-channel NVR is well beyond our needs, but I’d rather have stability & full feature set (including PoE).

NVR

For NVR I’m torn between the Dahua NVR5216 or one of the similar HIKVision units, maybe the 7616NI?

Cameras

A - For front entrance we were thinking about either the Hikvision DS-2CD2552F-IS 5MP with 2.8mm Lens or the Dahua N44BN52 4MP with 2.8mm Lens.
B - For the side entrance there seem to be lots of viable options. Among those we’ve considered:

• Hikvision DS-2CD2085FWD-I-6MM 8MP with 6mm Lens. Seemed to rate very well.
• Hikvision DS-2CD2T55FWD-I5-6MM 5MP with 6mm Lens
• Dahua DH-IPC-HFW54A1EN-Z Pro Series 4MP Bullet Camera with Night Vision and IVS with varifocal 2.7-12mm Lens (seems like best value)

C - After reading about the IPC-HDW5231R-Z on the ipcamtalk forums, this sounds like a great camera for the back entrance, but it doesn’t appear to be available in the US?


So, do you have any advice for me? I’m completely new to video surveillance, and I’d like a solid, reliable setup that won’t be difficult to maintain. I’m just a volunteer for the church with several other responsibilities as well, so once the system is in place, I won’t have loads of time to devote to troubleshooting or tech support. Therefore, I’m trying to do my due diligence now to make sure we get a system that will work well for our needs.

Many thanks for your help!

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

This is for the church one, will do more discount for you, lol, thank god.

 

[mat200]

Our church has considered adding surveillance for a while now, but after the tragic shooting in Texas the last week, we want to move forward with protecting the safety of the congregation. I’ve been tasked with specifying and purchasing a simple system, but though I live in the world of tech, I'm new to video surveillance. I’ve spent about 2 solid days reading, researching, etc. but my head is still spinning a bit. I believe I’ve narrowed down choices to either dahua or hikvision, but I could use a little advice.

Here are the details.

Our Facility:
Attached are photos that show the property and where we plan to place exterior cameras.

View attachment 23633View attachment 23634View attachment 23635

A - front entrance. We’d like to place a high-resolution (5MP+), wide-angle camera here, mounted under the eve. Perhaps if it’s shielded enough from the sun, we could use a low-profile wedge dome, so the camera is less conspicuous. The primary purpose would be for our security guy to monitor any approach to the front door during church services. We’d like him to be able to view the feed on an iPad.

B - side entrance. Here we were thinking of another high-res bullet camera pointing towards the parking lot.

C - lower back entrance. These doors can not normally open from the outside, but this area is very secluded and dark at night. We thought this area would be a good candidate for the IPC-HDW5231R-Z because of it’s excellent low-light performance.

Desired Capabilities:
Primary objective is to be able to monitor the property while the building is occupied during church services. Our security guy MUST be able to monitor camera feeds from an iPad or other tablet.

Secondary objective would be to keep an eye on the property while it is empty. We would want the NVR to record feeds when an alert is triggered and send an alert notification or email to somebody’s phone. This is of much lesser importance as it doesn’t involve safety, but it could be useful if we ever faced a situation of vandalism, burglary, or misuse of the property. We want the whole system to run PoE through the NVR. If an 8-channel NVR could be up to the job, I doubt we’ll ever need more than 8 cameras, however I’m inclined to have more capacity/power than we necessarily need. I realize a 16-channel NVR is well beyond our needs, but I’d rather have stability & full feature set (including PoE).

NVR

For NVR I’m torn between the Dahua NVR5216 or one of the similar HIKVision units, maybe the 7616NI?

Cameras

A - For front entrance we were thinking about either the Hikvision DS-2CD2552F-IS 5MP with 2.8mm Lens or the Dahua N44BN52 4MP with 2.8mm Lens.
B - For the side entrance there seem to be lots of viable options. Among those we’ve considered:

• Hikvision DS-2CD2085FWD-I-6MM 8MP with 6mm Lens. Seemed to rate very well.
• Hikvision DS-2CD2T55FWD-I5-6MM 5MP with 6mm Lens
• Dahua DH-IPC-HFW54A1EN-Z Pro Series 4MP Bullet Camera with Night Vision and IVS with varifocal 2.7-12mm Lens (seems like best value)

C - After reading about the IPC-HDW5231R-Z on the ipcamtalk forums, this sounds like a great camera for the back entrance, but it doesn’t appear to be available in the US?


So, do you have any advice for me? I’m completely new to video surveillance, and I’d like a solid, reliable setup that won’t be difficult to maintain. I’m just a volunteer for the church with several other responsibilities as well, so once the system is in place, I won’t have loads of time to devote to troubleshooting or tech support. Therefore, I’m trying to do my due diligence now to make sure we get a system that will work well for our needs.

Many thanks for your help!

Welcome KenCT,

Andy ( EmpireTecAndy ) is well respected here, and a number of us have purchased from him and his company which is located in China and able to send international models of Dahua OEM cameras which have English language firmware.

Also, seeing that you are new here I wanted to welcome you as well as share some notes with you.

It's easy to get swamped with information here, so I wanted to share some notes with you

Please check out @giomania 's notes:
Dahua Starlight Varifocal Turret (IPC-HDW5231R-Z)

I have also made notes which are a summary of a lot of the reading I've been doing here,:
Looking for some advice and direction!

Have fun joining us here.

 

[tangent]

So, do you have any advice for me? I’m completely new to video surveillance, and I’d like a solid, reliable setup that won’t be difficult to maintain. I’m just a volunteer for the church with several other responsibilities as well, so once the system is in place, I won’t have loads of time to devote to troubleshooting or tech support. Therefore, I’m trying to do my due diligence now to make sure we get a system that will work well for our needs.

There's a lot of information here: Resource Guide on IP Technology for all Noobs

Here are some quick thoughts:

• If you use an NVR it's best to stick to the same brand cameras, others will work but some features may not and setup is more difficult.
• A PC based NVR can be more flexible but does typically cost a bit more and may take a bit more upkeep
• I don't think 3 cameras will really get the job done, >8 is certainly possible. It's something you can always expand later if needed. Price difference between NVR with 8 PoE ports and 16 ports is small.
• You can get NVRs without the built-in PoE switch and use your own PoE switch if you want, what's appropriate will depend on the rest of your network architecture.
• Don't forward ports to the outside world, if remote access is required setup a vpn server
• Your existing wifi may not be up to the task of viewing multiple cameras and doing everything else required of it.
• More megapixles isn't always better
• You may also want to consider an access control system to control access rather than keys
• Don't use dome cameras outside!

As for placement, my initial thought would be to cover the main entrance with 2 cameras with an overlaping x pattern and the put another camera in the vestibule area that's hopefully mounted lower for nice clean face shots. Another 3-6 or so cameras could cover the other outside areas and doors. Inside there are likely some other assets worth monitoring obvious ones include the church office and nursery. I'd also try to cover the stairs.

If you choose Dahua @EMPIRETECANDY is a good option. If you choose Hikvision, I'd suggest the LTS re branded products you can get in the US. Forum member @milkisbad is a vendor.

 

[tangent]

IPVM Camera Calculator V3

 

[Q™]

Our church has considered adding surveillance for a while now, but after the tragic shooting in Texas the last week, we want to move forward with protecting the safety of the congregation....

Welcome to ipcamtalk.com Ken...an excellent first post; you'll get a lot of sage advice from our members here brother.

It's clear to me that cameras are not going to protect the safety of your congregation, although they may have the positive effect of making folks feel safer. Unless you turn your church into an armed prison there is nothing which will protect your congregation from a determined active shooter. And, in my opinion, better we prepare for what is certain to come rather than that which is of this earth and unlikely. As Charles J. Chaput said,...

"Hell has been described in a lot of ways, from a soulless bureaucracy, to a furnace of fire, to a lake of ice. But I think C. S. Lewis put it best in one of his novels when he says that hell is noise. If that's true, and I think it is, then much of the modern life we share we also make hellish, by filling it with discord, confusion, and noise. Every day, every one of our choices is a brick in the structure of the heaven or hell we're building for ourselves in the next life. And we'll never understand that unless we turn off the noise that cocoons us in consumer anxieties and appetites. Silence is water in the desert of modern desire. We don't see the full effects of the good we do in this life. So much of what we do seems a tangle of frustrations and failures. We don't see — on this side of the tapestry — the pattern of meaning that our faith weaves. But one day we'll stand on the other side. And on that day, we'll see the beauty that God has allowed us to add to the great story of his creation, the revelation of his love that goes from age to age no matter how good or bad the times. And this is why our lives matter. So have faith. Trust in the Lord. And believe in his love."

The chances that your church is going to be attacked is an infinitesimally remote possibility...and the fear associated with that possibility is the noise which Archbishop Chaput speaks to. In my opinion it t is better that your congregation works on their fear rather than the misguided faith that cameras will protect them.

And -- if the worst were to happen -- cameras will only record the event and further stoke fear in the world.

"...I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast you into hell..."

 

[KenCT]

Welcome KenCT,

Andy ( EmpireTecAndy ) is well respected here, and a number of us have purchased from him and his company which is located in China and able to send international models of Dahua OEM cameras which have English language firmware.

Also, seeing that you are new here I wanted to welcome you as well as share some notes with you.

It's easy to get swamped with information here, so I wanted to share some notes with you

Please check out @giomania 's notes:
Dahua Starlight Varifocal Turret (IPC-HDW5231R-Z)

I have also made notes which are a summary of a lot of the reading I've been doing here,:
Looking for some advice and direction!

Have fun joining us here.

Many thanks for your reply. This was indeed my first post here, but I've been doing a lot of reading through the forum since Monday. I had actually already come across both of the posts you referenced, and they are both treasure troves of information! I haven't yet made it through all of the links included there yet, so I definitely still have more reading to do...

I'm no stranger to various forums, but this one seems to be particularly active & helpful. Much appreciated by a noob like me!

 

[mat200]

Many thanks for your reply. This was indeed my first post here, but I've been doing a lot of reading through the forum since Monday. I had actually already come across both of the posts you referenced, and they are both treasure troves of information! I haven't yet made it through all of the links included there yet, so I definitely still have more reading to do...

I'm no stranger to various forums, but this one seems to be particularly active & helpful. Much appreciated by a noob like me!

Thanks, Happy to welcome you here.

 

[KenCT]

There's a lot of information here: Resource Guide on IP Technology for all Noobs

Here are some quick thoughts:

• If you use an NVR it's best to stick to the same brand cameras, others will work but some features may not and setup is more difficult.
• A PC based NVR can be more flexible but does typically cost a bit more and may take a bit more upkeep
• I don't think 3 cameras will really get the job done, >8 is certainly possible. It's something you can always expand later if needed. Price difference between NVR with 8 PoE ports and 16 ports is small.
• You can get NVRs without the built-in PoE switch and use your own PoE switch if you want, what's appropriate will depend on the rest of your network architecture.
• Don't forward ports to the outside world, if remote access is required setup a vpn server
• Your existing wifi may not be up to the task of viewing multiple cameras and doing everything else required of it.
• More megapixles isn't always better
• You may also want to consider an access control system to control access rather than keys
• Don't use dome cameras outside!

As for placement, my initial thought would be to cover the main entrance with 2 cameras with an overlaping x pattern and the put another camera in the vestibule area that's hopefully mounted lower for nice clean face shots. Another 3-6 or so cameras could cover the other outside areas and doors. Inside there are likely some other assets worth monitoring obvious ones include the church office and nursery. I'd also try to cover the stairs.

If you choose Dahua @EMPIRETECANDY is a good option. If you choose Hikvision, I'd suggest the LTS re branded products you can get in the US. Forum member @milkisbad is a vendor.

Thanks for your reply @tangent

Yes, I had seen some discussion regarding the symbiotic benefits to sticking with the same brand. This actually brings up a question I had: I figure that if I get Dahua NVR, I'll get all Dahua cameras. But if Hikvision was the better NVR choice, I'd get all the Hikvision cameras with perhaps the exception of the Dahua DH-IPC-HFW54A1EN-Z for the back entrance. This camera seems so well-endorsed for low-light areas that it might be worth the potential hassle of integrating it with the rest of an all-Hikvision environment? What would you say?

Regarding remote access, I'm still trying to learn about this. Our thoughts at this point would be that using the iOS app would be all we'd need. We don't really plan on monitoring the property a whole lot when it's not in use, but if an alarm event were triggered (for example, someone crosses into a 'tripwire' zone by the back entrance), we might want to check in to see what was going on. However, does the mobile app require either port forwarding (not recommended) or a vpn, or do they have their own ecosystem that handles it securely?

We don't plan to use WiFi for cameras, though we would for local monitoring on an iPad. We plan to hard-wire everything to the NVR using PoE. We would then connect the NVR to a dedicated WiFi router so we can view feeds on an iPad. This actually opens up more questions about networking... We have a gigabit wifi router that we are primarily using for basic Internet connectivity for 2 hard-wired computers and then for our live sound mixing. We use a Presonus StudioLive mixer that allows us to control the various sound mixes from an iPad. I doubt it uses much bandwidth (as no audio signals are actually going over wifi; only the command interface), but I'd like to keep usage on that network light nonetheless. I'm afraid that live video feeds will be much more bandwidth-heavy, so I thought it might be best to setup our NVR on a dedicated SSID. But I'm not sure how to get the two routers to connect to the same internet connection without DHCP conflicts. Come to think of it, does the NVR handle NAT as well, or is it more like a switch?

Regarding megapixels, I agree. I first noticed this back when I had my first DSLR (Canon 5D mk II) it was able to produce much better images than higher megapixel smartphones at the time. This seems to be evidenced here by the Dahua Starlight cameras with 'only' 2MP. Still, for the cameras that I'm hoping to see out into the parking area, I think a good-quality, higher resolution image would be helpful. I had read some positive reviews on the Hikvision DS-2CD2085FWD-I-6MM 8MP? Or do you have any recommendations on a 5MP+ resolution camera that also has good image quality?

Access control is on our radar, but still distant at this point.

Thanks for your advice regarding placement as well. We liked the mini-dome because it seems less conspicuous, but I've read about UV degradation. I was hoping that mounting it under the eve would mitigate exposure to the sun. Can replacement domes be purchased to replace after a few years if they degrade? Your suggestion is probably better, but we hope we can get a setup that won't make people feel like they're entering a prison!

Thanks also for the referrals. I've actually already been in touch with Andy and will check out milkisbad as well!

Thanks again!

-Ken

 

[KenCT]

Welcome to ipcamtalk.com Ken...an excellent first post; you'll get a lot of sage advice from our members here brother.

It's clear to me that cameras are not going to protect the safety of your congregation, although they may have the positive effect of making folks feel safer. Unless you turn your church into an armed prison there is nothing which will protect your congregation from a determined active shooter. And, in my opinion, better we prepare for what is certain to come rather than that which is of this earth and unlikely. As Charles J. Chaput said,...



The chances that your church is going to be attacked is an infinitesimally remote possibility...and the fear associated with that possibility is the noise which Archbishop Chaput speaks to. In my opinion it t is better that your congregation works on their fear rather than the misguided faith that cameras will protect them.

And -- if the worst were to happen -- cameras will only record the event and further stoke fear in the world.

Well-said, and I definitely agree. Not to minimize the horror of mass shootings, but just as with commercial plane crashes, the media coverage and the way these sort of events can ignite dark imaginations tends to elevate our estimation of the risks beyond their actual likelihood. Many people fear getting on an airplane more than getting in a car even though they are FAR more likely to suffer a car crash. Still, rationale doesn't always satisfy fears. Our church happens to be less than half an hour from the elementary school in Sandy Hook where the infamous shooting occurred nearly 5 years ago. Some of our church members unfortunately whitnessed that event first-hand, so I believe the notion of an incident tends to resonate here a little louder. Speaking of Sandy Hook and being rational, every brick of that school building has been removed from the property. The horrors of that day are still very real in the minds of those that experienced it first-hand, so even though there is no rational reason to destroy the building, it was deemed a reasonable endeavor to help the community recover.

All that said, our church has been wanting to install video surveillance for a couple of years now, and I believe this latest church shooting event was just the final catalyst to resurrect this project. We do have other measures in place to try our best to protect people in the highly-unlikely event of an active shooter. Cameras could assist in providing some advance notice of someone approaching, and any advance warning could certainly give a benefit to respond.

There are other practical reasons, of course. For example, we would like an eye on the parking lot in case anyone tried to mess with vehicles during the service. Also, being able to capture recordings could help if we ever had an issue with vandalism or burglary.

In any case, regardless of our reasons, the ultimate goal is that people are able to attend our services without distraction. This guides many aspects of what our church does, from trying to have appropriate lighting, comfortable HVAC, well-balanced audio, etc. If fear of safety is one potential area of distraction, we will do our best to remove this distraction by making people feel safe. This is especially important for people visiting the church. We can't predict or rationalize with the spectrum of potential issues each person may have, so we just try to do our best to mitigate things so people can engage with the church service distraction-free.

 

[Q™]

...In any case, regardless of our reasons, the ultimate goal is that people are able to attend our services without distraction. This guides many aspects of what our church does, from trying to have appropriate lighting, comfortable HVAC, well-balanced audio, etc. If fear of safety is one potential area of distraction, we will do our best to remove this distraction by making people feel safe. This is especially important for people visiting the church. We can't predict or rationalize with the spectrum of potential issues each person may have, so we just try to do our best to mitigate things so people can engage with the church service distraction-free...

Well stated yourself Ken...very well stated...and I'm certain that you will get all the help you need here.

Start with a budget, and remember that many who are new to security cameras start out with a general "I want cameras" requirement only to learn (down the road) that they have other more specific requirements (such as facial or license plate recognition) which the cameras they have purchased, and the locations they have placed those cameras, do not meet. Said another way, watching a blurry video of a thief entering a car is much different then turning video over to the police which helps identify and apprehend the thief.

 

[Q™]

And mount a sign such as this on your church steeple...

Posters of Angry Eyes Actually Scare Off Bike Thieves

 

[KenCT]

And mount a sign such as this on your church steeple...

Posters of Angry Eyes Actually Scare Off Bike Thieves

View attachment 23647

As they would say on that side of the pond, "brilliant!"

 

[tangent]

Play with the ipvm calculator. It will help you get a sense of image quality you might expect at various distances and the field of view of different lenses / zoom levels. Super wide angle cams aren't always as useful as you'd think, but you need a sense of what the fov is when picking a location. This is why I'd do to cameras under the eaves at the entrance. Ultimately starting with a varifocal camera or two can be a good way to get a sense of what lenses might be appropriate on fixed focus cameras.

Viewing cameras on an ipad is fine, but I'd also suggest a dedicated display or two with my first thoughts being sound booth (if you have one) and office.

Realistically vandalism, burglary, and child abduction are far more likely events than a mass shooting.

Based on your parking lot size, I can tell you aren't the biggest congregation. It's fine to start small and add on.

 

[KenCT]

Play with the ipvm calculator. It will help you get a sense of image quality you might expect at various distances and the field of view of different lenses / zoom levels. Super wide angle cams aren't always as useful as you'd think, but you need a sense of what the fov is when picking a location. This is why I'd do to cameras under the eaves at the entrance. Ultimately starting with a varifocal camera or two can be a good way to get a sense of what lenses might be appropriate on fixed focus cameras.

Viewing cameras on an ipad is fine, but I'd also suggest a dedicated display or two with my first thoughts being sound booth (if you have one) and office.

Realistically vandalism, burglary, and child abduction are far more likely events than a mass shooting.

Based on your parking lot size, I can tell you aren't the biggest congregation. It's fine to start small and add on.

Thanks for showing me the IVPM calculator. That's an amazing tool. I won't spring for membership, but I can experiment with just one camera at a time.

Yes, we will probably install a monitor attached to the NVR, and it will likely be in the sound room. We want to use an iPad so that our designated security guy can keep an eye on things without being banished to the sound room.

I like your idea of using 2 cameras in an X pattern for the entrance. At first I didn't think we'd have the budget for extra cameras, but it looks like I'll be able to acquire for less than the prices I was originally finding when looking at B&H Photo.

Our congregation is currently less than 100, so you're right, we aren't really looking for the same type of system that a church of several hundred might need. I mainly want it to work well and be stable.

 

[KenCT]

I've been scanning through headlines on IPVM.com as much as I can read of each without pro membership. Looks like a lot of bad press on both Dahua and Hikvision regarding zero day backdoors, etc. Of particular concern to me is that while recent firmware upgrades may have patched the issue, it sounds like it may be impossible (or at least difficult) to upgrade firmware from 'grey market' or rebranded units. I assume this would apply to LTS re-branded units of Hikvision?

Do any of you own any of these products, and have you run into issues getting the latest firmware installed? For Hikvision, it sounds like to be safe, you need firmware to be newer than 5.4.5.

 

[tangent]

I've been scanning through headlines on IPVM.com as much as I can read of each without pro membership. Looks like a lot of bad press on both Dahua and Hikvision regarding zero day backdoors, etc. Of particular concern to me is that while recent firmware upgrades may have patched the issue, it sounds like it may be impossible (or at least difficult) to upgrade firmware from 'grey market' or rebranded units. I assume this would apply to LTS re-branded units of Hikvision?

Do any of you own any of these products, and have you run into issues getting the latest firmware installed? For Hikvision, it sounds like to be safe, you need firmware to be newer than 5.4.5.

Both companies do have their issues. Ultimately I think IPVM's real gripe is how these companies have negatively impacted competition from other more expensive vendors. If the competition costs 2 times more it's hard to run a publication comparing cameras. There are products each company makes that they and we would be better off without and then they could scale up production of models that are a little better. However I feel like ipvm is a bit out of touch with the higher end consumer market who want good cameras without spending $300-800 / camera, that's fine I suppose as the consumer market isn't their focus.

I don't think I'd classify LTS as grey market and the cams from Andy are international models without the dahua logo and can be upgraded. Caution is always advisable when upgrading firmware as there are things that can go wrong or features that can break, it's best not to be an early adopter.

Hikvision has tried to lock down their firmware a lot more than dahua and make hacking a camera that's for china only more difficult / dangerous (risk of bricking camera). Ultimately its best to avoid the cameras that have been hacked to English.

There are security issues with many cameras, recent vulnerabilities have been patched more will be found eventually. As long as you don't forward ports for remote access (never do this) the risk is pretty low. There are other things you can do on your network if you want to externally enforce some extra security.

 

[tangent]

If IPVM's goal is to shame Hikvision and Dahua to encourage them to do a better job and fix issues in their companies, the message has been lost in translation (cultural differences). They fail to understand PR in the west where the media isn't state run. There's a thread on this, but don't waste your time.

 

[CCTVCam]

I would have thought at point A you might want 2 cameras - 1 fixed to watch the door close up, and a PTZ Turret to watch the car park as these can track movement and zoom in.

Also, as has been mentioned already, a camera will only film a tragedy.

In my opinion, if you want an opportunity to prevent it then you probably need additional measures such as someone watching the feeds from a position next to the door during a service and some means of securely locking the doors if a threat is seen - this will probably need to be robust to prevent forced entry. No guarantees here though. If someone parks at the far end of the car park and walks across with a rifle, then there's probably a chance of securing the place. However, if someone has a weapon they conceal until inside, then it's very difficult to protect against as watching the feeds will show no warning.

Another choice could be to lock the doors during services but then there are fire considerations / regulations.

Beyond that, I'd suggest some means of communication with the outside world from inside the church to ensure the authorities can be contacted, after all, little point barricading yourselves in if the perp has all the time in the world.

 

[john-ipvm]

Both companies do have their issues. Ultimately I think IPVM's real gripe

However I feel like ipvm is a bit out of touch with the higher end consumer market who want good cameras without spending $300-800 / camera

While I understand the attraction of saving money up front, many of the forums posts here are great examples of the long-term costs and pain in trying to save money up front (problems upgrading firmware, getting hacked, issues with tech support, integrations breaking, to name a few). Once you factor those issues in, many people would be better off buying more expensive products that do not have these issues.

We did an integrator survey summarizing integrator choices for low-cost alternatives, the most notable name on that list that I don't see mentioned here as much is Hanwha - full report here Hikvision Best Alternatives Picked By Integrators

All that noted, if your personal skills, time, money, etc. make Dahua and Hikvision a better choice, I totally respect that. As for IPVM, our core users are professional integrators and larger end users, so for them, these issues are legitimate concerns often far more than the purchase price.