Talk me off the ledge...

[scoho]

So for the past several months I've been reviewing all the different security system/monitoring options. I've gone through the entire array from ADT to Simplisafe to Blink to a POE system. I thought I'd settled on a POE system until I saw this. If the campaign is to be believed, it is pretty much exactly what I'm looking for. I really like the idea of a POE system and not crazy about the potential instability of a wireless/battery operated cameras, but I do like the idea of not having to run all that network cable. Probably the biggest deterrent for me with the POE system is the need to have another dedicated computer (whether it be a PC running Blue Iris or NVR). I really don't want to have yet another computer running full time (I already have an unRAID file server running 24/7). I also don't need full time recording and need Alexa/IFTTT integration. Does a POE system exist that acts more like that Evercam system where there is just a home "base" with an SD card that stores clips as needed?

 

[fenderman]

So for the past several months I've been reviewing all the different security system/monitoring options. I've gone through the entire array from ADT to Simplisafe to Blink to a POE system. I thought I'd settled on a POE system until I saw this. If the campaign is to be believed, it is pretty much exactly what I'm looking for. I really like the idea of a POE system and not crazy about the potential instability of a wireless/battery operated cameras, but I do like the idea of not having to run all that network cable. Probably the biggest deterrent for me with the POE system is the need to have another dedicated computer (whether it be a PC running Blue Iris or NVR). I really don't want to have yet another computer running full time (I already have an unRAID file server running 24/7). I also don't need full time recording and need Alexa/IFTTT integration. Does a POE system exist that acts more like that Evercam system where there is just a home "base" with an SD card that stores clips as needed?

It's a scam... You cannot have a 1-year battery life on a camera that size...

 

[mat200]

So for the past several months I've been reviewing all the different security system/monitoring options. I've gone through the entire array from ADT to Simplisafe to Blink to a POE system. I thought I'd settled on a POE system until I saw this. If the campaign is to be believed, it is pretty much exactly what I'm looking for. I really like the idea of a POE system and not crazy about the potential instability of a wireless/battery operated cameras, but I do like the idea of not having to run all that network cable. Probably the biggest deterrent for me with the POE system is the need to have another dedicated computer (whether it be a PC running Blue Iris or NVR). I really don't want to have yet another computer running full time (I already have an unRAID file server running 24/7). I also don't need full time recording and need Alexa/IFTTT integration. Does a POE system exist that acts more like that Evercam system where there is just a home "base" with an SD card that stores clips as needed?

Welcome Scoho,

Question: Why can your cell phone not last a year on a battery charge?

Think about that for a bit.






OK, so all of the wirefree camera products have to make significant design compromises to keep the battery life longer.

Compromises:
1) Low power mode - for the majority of the time this is the mode the camera will be in, waiting for an event to go to a higher power mode, this means it will not be able to record 24/7.
2) IR lights will have to be less powerful.
3) Motion detection will wake camera - thus there will be at least some lag for powerup of the camera, and motion detection tech is not good enough yet.
4) facial recognition in a wirefree product - most certainly this will be problematic on v1, and certainly with a wirefree design you want to reduce power consuming calculations - so it will be at best limited quality for now.

Also, do not trust promises from kick starter campaigns. I'm certain they'll produce a product - just doubt that they will be successful in making a reliable product for the purposes of a security camera.

If you want a reliable setup you will have to go with a wired setup. IP PoE preferred by most of us here for various good reasons.

Note: Many of the Dahua OEM IP PoE cameras we have been picking up from Andy include microSD card slots so you can store locally on camera, so there is not a requirement to have a separate NVR / VMS system, and if you want you can configure the cameras to only record on motion / IVS triggered events. Though, remember motion / IVS triggered events will not be 100% accurate.

Do remember to take a look at the notes:
IPCamTalk WiKi | IP Cam Talk

 

[scoho]

Welcome Scoho,

Question: Why can your cell phone not last a year on a battery charge?

Think about that for a bit.

Well, huge difference in consumption of cell phone vs a security camera that is intermittently on, not to mention the fact that a cell phone is extremely limited on battery size.

OK, so all of the wirefree camera products have to make significant design compromises to keep the battery life longer.

Compromises:
1) Low power mode - for the majority of the time this is the mode the camera will be in, waiting for an event to go to a higher power mode, this means it will not be able to record 24/7.
2) IR lights will have to be less powerful.
3) Motion detection will wake camera - thus there will be at least some lag for powerup of the camera, and motion detection tech is not good enough yet.
4) facial recognition in a wirefree product - most certainly this will be problematic on v1, and certainly with a wirefree design you want to reduce power consuming calculations - so it will be at best limited quality for now.

Also, do not trust promises from kick starter campaigns. I'm certain they'll produce a produce - just doubt that they will be successful in making a reliable product for the purposes of a security camera.

If you want a reliable setup you will have to go with a wired setup. IP PoE preferred by most of us here for various good reasons.

Note: Many of the Dahua OEM IP PoE cameras we have been picking up from Andy include microSD card slots so you can store locally on camera, so there is not a requirement to have a separate NVR / VMS system, and if you want you can configure the cameras to only record on motion / IVS triggered events. Though, remember motion / IVS triggered events will not be 100% accurate.

Do remember to take a look at the notes:
IPCamTalk WiKi | IP Cam Talk

Believe me, I really WANT to do the POE system (that is why I started this thread), but it's seeming like the shortcomings of that system are starting to outweigh the shortcomings of a good wire free system. Can those Dahua cameras be integrated with Alexa or IFTTT? With that, can Blue Iris or NVR be integrated with Alexa or IFTTT? How do I see what this Andy fellow has available?[/QUOTE]

 

[DognamedTank]

Well, huge difference in consumption of cell phone vs a security camera that is intermittently on, not to mention the fact that a cell phone is extremely limited on battery size.


Believe me, I really WANT to do the POE system (that is why I started this thread), but it's seeming like the shortcomings of that system are starting to outweigh the shortcomings of a good wire free system. Can those Dahua cameras be integrated with Alexa or IFTTT? With that, can Blue Iris or NVR be integrated with Alexa or IFTTT? How do I see what this Andy fellow has available?

I think you'll find there will be plenty of shortcomings with a wire-free system. If you only want a snapshot and it isn't mission critical, a wire-free system may work fine. Don't expect to get 24/7, always on viewing for very long with only battery power. Cameras using WiFi are very easy to disrupt, and even cooking a snack in your microwave (or your neighbor's if the houses are close) can degrade your WiFi signal enough to introduce plenty of lag into a camera using 2.4 Ghz. I started with WiFi cameras, and I quickly learned that they are OK for observing, but they seem to cut-out or skip frames when you need it the most.

You can setup local cameras (the Dahuas should work as well) with Alexa and IFTTT if you need. Search around for the many different ways. For example, Monocle: View IP Cameras with Alexa (Echo Show, Echo Spot, Fire TV, Fire Tablet). I haven't had a need to integrate my system with Alexa or IFTTT, so I can't say how easy/hard it is. @bp2008 's UI2 and UI3 for Blue Iris and the BP app have been all I've needed so far for my remote viewing and pulling up the streams throughout the house.

 

[looney2ns]

Well, huge difference in consumption of cell phone vs a security camera that is intermittently on, not to mention the fact that a cell phone is extremely limited on battery size.

You don't think that cam is limited on battery size?
The cam is "on" all the time, it's using something to capture motion dectection.
But it doesn't matter, WiFi is a horrible choice for cameras.
Buy once, cry once.
And we won't see you back here in a year wanting to replace your wifi stuff, like so many Ring and Arlos users have.
Also stay away from cloud based crap.

 

[fenderman]

Well, huge difference in consumption of cell phone vs a security camera that is intermittently on, not to mention the fact that a cell phone is extremely limited on battery size.


Believe me, I really WANT to do the POE system (that is why I started this thread), but it's seeming like the shortcomings of that system are starting to outweigh the shortcomings of a good wire free system. Can those Dahua cameras be integrated with Alexa or IFTTT? With that, can Blue Iris or NVR be integrated with Alexa or IFTTT? How do I see what this Andy fellow has available?

[/QUOTE]
There are no shortcomings of a poe system. Seems like you made up your mind to get lazy and go wire free...you will regret it...its pretty much useless garbage...
blue iris has alexa and mqtt integration, but why you would need it is beyond me...
All the wire free systems out there are garbage...there are lots of garbage wired systems as well...
Why do you fear running a pc full time, that is exactly what the base station is...a properly selected and configured pc will consume 25-40w on the average install.
If you cannot properly run cable, higher someone to do it...will still be cheaper than the crap cloud cams and your images will be better as well.

 

[Q™]

"Face-Recognizing Alerts" eh? Well. I'm issuing a Bullshit Recognizing Alert. That's a "BRA" to those in the know.

 

[scoho]

Man, some of you guys are way too defensive/sensitive. Thanks to those who actually gave sound advice.

So where do I see what is available from this Andy fellow? All I see on this forum is Nelly's.

 

[fenderman]

Man, some of you guys are way too defensive/sensitive. Thanks to those who actually gave sound advice.

So where do I see what is available from this Andy fellow? All I see on this forum is Nelly's.

You don't need Andy...stick to battery powered crap... otherwise you'll be back here bitching when you screw something up...
Issue with you is that you have no clue as to what you are doing but already made up your mind and came to erroneous conclusions... sign up for the Kickstarter and in two years uoully have an amazing setup... really...

 

[scoho]

You don't need Andy...stick to battery powered crap... otherwise you'll be back here bitching when you screw something up...
Issue with you is that you have no clue as to what you are doing but already made up your mind and came to erroneous conclusions... sign up for the Kickstarter and in two years uoully have an amazing setup... really...

Dude, are you for real? What makes you say I've made up my mind? What erroneous conclusions have I come to? I haven't come to any conclusions at all. Not even close. Why would I create this thread if I made up my mind? I even titled the thread "talk me off the ledge", meaning, I already know it would be a bad decision to go wireless. Relax man. Just the fact that you would say something like "there are no shortcomings of a POE system" tells me everything I need to know.

Again, really the only thing holding me back from a POE is I'm trying to avoid YET ANOTHER full time PC running on my network. I've been trying to scale back and simplify things so was hoping to avoid it. At least a couple people on here that were actually helpful and didn't insult me like you did have pointed out that I can still hook up a POE cam with an SD card. Not sure that's ideal, but it's something to think about. Thanks for all your great wisdom and advice though.

 

[fenderman]

Dude, are you for real? What makes you say I've made up my mind? What erroneous conclusions have I come to? I haven't come to any conclusions at all. Not even close. Why would I create this thread if I made up my mind? I even titled the thread "talk me off the ledge", meaning, I already know it would be a bad decision to go wireless. Relax man. Just the fact that you would say something like "there are no shortcomings of a POE system" tells me everything I need to know.

Again, really the only thing holding me back from a POE is I'm trying to avoid YET ANOTHER full time PC running on my network. I've been trying to scale back and simplify things so was hoping to avoid it. At least a couple people on here that were actually helpful and didn't insult me like you did have pointed out that I can still hook up a POE cam with an SD card. Not sure that's ideal, but it's something to think about. Thanks for all your great wisdom and advice though.

Years of experience tell me....
Your silly excuse makes no sense...what is this irrational fear you have about running a PC? Please I'm dying to know...
There are no shortcomings of a Poe system...that is fact....you have not named a single one...
Don't get your panties in a bunch when confronted with truth...
You claim to know it's a bad idea to go wireless but yet you need to be talked out of it...get your story straight..

 

[aristobrat]

Again, really the only thing holding me back from a POE is I'm trying to avoid YET ANOTHER full time PC running on my network.

Yeah, that was totally me when I joined the forum 1.5 years ago.

Oh, and I wanted more cameras that did better at night than my 3MP Hikvision dome, but it had to be a dome (I liked the look), and it couldn’t be less than 3MP (why would I want to downgrade MP?).

Skip ahead to now. I love the system I’ve built over the last 1.5 years, but it’s pretty much the complete opposite of what I initially wanted. My key cameras are 2MP (not 3MP+) turrets (domes suck outside), and everything records on a full-time PC.

Like this KickStarter system, I initially started recording motion-only to a Synology NAS, but I gave up on this after a few times where important video wasn’t recorded (motion detection is never 100% accurate). I then moved to a NVR appliance (it used less power than a PC), but for I wanted to do, I found that was limited in capabilities and remote usability.

It was an extremely tough sell for me initially, but I’m now using Blue Iris on an old (2012?) PC. It uses 40-50 watts of electricity, but it’s headless… no keyboard, mouse or video, so it’s tucked neatly out of the way. I can efficiently manage everything remotely.

I guess my long-winded point is that what I thought I wanted when I joined here has morphed immensely as I’ve learned more. If I had invested in a closed system (like the KickStarter project you mentioned), I’d be stuck… no chance to use that equipment differently than how it was designed for.

 

[mat200]

@sbcale aristobrat did a great job with the above post which probably describes many of us and our journey learning about security / surveillance cameras. ( I still feel there is a lot of learn for me ).

Remember the Reolink Argus was also a kickstarter project and supposed to be a Arlo killer... well, it turned out not to be one. Yes Reolink produced a product, and those backing the kickstarter got what they ordered.

Clearly based on the response to Evercam's kickstarter campaign there are a lot of people who wish to see a magical unicorn of a camera somehow appear and defy physics.

However, just like Theranos - some things are not easy to do despite the funding and promises.

And yes, cell phones are not security cameras - still a security camera does need to be on - even if in a lower power state - 24/7, so if management told me as an engineer that I had to optimize the camera for lowest power usage - well simply performance will suffer.

Having used a Arlo system for too long, and looking closely at other options - I can not stress to those learning about security cameras enough that a key minimal viable product MUST be reliable. The most cost effective way to reach that goal for most of us is with a wired solution.

Also note, the Evercam at 140 FOV and 1080p it will have a very short "ID distance" ( that is the distance to 100 ppf ), coupled with the need to have the camera < 8 feet high to increase chances of a good ID image and the magnetic mount - well lets just say: that built in alarm will be worth while....

 

[scoho]

@aristobrat & @mat200 that is exactly the information I was looking for, thank you. Fenderman could learn a lot from you (still not convinced that guy is for real, or maybe he's just an angry dude).

 

[fenderman]

@aristobrat & @mat200 that is exactly the information I was looking for, thank you. Fenderman could learn a lot from you (still not convinced that guy is for real, or maybe he's just an angry dude).

nah just dont like bullshitters on my forum...go for the evercam..it will suit you perfectly...