The Dreaded GAP. Very Frustrated New User

MrSurly

Getting comfortable
Joined
Jun 6, 2020
Messages
386
Reaction score
690
Location
TX
I truly hope that you folks can lead me out of the fog, here. I'm a new user, still trying to learn BI and still trying to get it to WORK. It is extremely frustrating that each time I get home or wake up or whatever, I look at the BI screen in the dedicated BI machine and the timeline has a huge GAP indicating that just after the last time I looked at it (ironically, to make sure it was working), it simply stopped working. Either BI is running and there's this unexplained hours-long gap OR BI has stopped running altogether, and I'm looking at a blank Windows background. SO DAMNED frustrating. In a few weeks, I am leaving for an extended period and I REALLY wanted to be able to have BI running so that I could reliably look in while I'm away. Apparently I can't even get it to run for a weekend, so what's the point? Can someone cast some light my way?
Lenovo M700 TINY i5-6700T 32G ram WIN 10 PRO 64 M.2 256G SSD, Purple WD 10TB USB3 storage drive
BI 5.3.4 (paid) No add-ons, as basic as can be. Running as a service
Currently seven cams, all new Dahuas, three bullets, rest turrets. I have two more waiting and planning to get at least four more.
LAN ip and all cams: 192.168.22.x
see "mailbox hide thread"
With all seven cams running (substreams) set at 12~15FPS, CPU utilization hovers around 33~52%, RAM is usually under 5G
I run NOTHING else on the BI machine.
CLEARLY, other folks are not ALL having this much trouble, or Blue Iris would have disappeared by now.
I have so many questions.
First, yes I've read/printed/studied the Wiki/Cliff/SY's and others' start up posts.
Before I started this Blue Iris adventure, I was NOT a Dumbass. I stand before you all, humbled and stupid, now.
1. is there a way to forensically determine WHY a stoppage occurred? A log file etc?
2. Is it possible to have BI restart itself on a schedule?
3. Is there a way to get BI to start up unattended? I have tried to do this based on instructions in the cliff notes etc and apparently version 5 doesn't offer the same checkboxes.
4. I have WIN10 Build 2004 19041 and the option to bypass username on boot is absent, now, in WIN10 (!) Is there a workaround?
5. The various video tutorials that I have seen are based on earlier BI versions and apparently some things look quite a bit different. Are there tutorials for version 5+?

I'm certain that the failure is all in something stupid I'm doing. Tossed in a few screenshots for context.
Screenshots:
Annotation 2020-09-01 170644.jpgAnnotation 2020-09-02 065951.jpgAnnotation 2020-09-02 070018.jpgAnnotation 2020-09-02 070143.jpg
 
Last edited:

sebastiantombs

Known around here
Joined
Dec 28, 2019
Messages
11,511
Reaction score
27,690
Location
New Jersey
Also, have a look here in IPCT for Blue Iris Tools. It's a handy little program that, among other things, has a watchdog on the BI service and will re-start it automagically for you. That can be a good thing in a case like your, but can be a PITA when trying to do an upgrade/update. Never mind how I know that:D
 

SouthernYankee

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Feb 15, 2018
Messages
5,170
Reaction score
5,320
Location
Houston Tx
Blue should be run as a service.

You have an "Restart after an unexpected shutdown" at 4:26:20 AM.
Open the log folder and look at the previous log file, see if there is any indication there.
Open the windows event viewer and look around 9/1/202 @ 11:51PM for any errors.

You blue iris status clip storage looks good.
 

IAmATeaf

Known around here
Joined
Jan 13, 2019
Messages
3,287
Reaction score
3,252
Location
United Kingdom
What settings do you have for database rebuild? BI won’t record while it’s doing this.

I’ve set mine to do it once a week and on a Sunday early afternoon when most probably we’ll be home.
 

MrSurly

Getting comfortable
Joined
Jun 6, 2020
Messages
386
Reaction score
690
Location
TX
In your last screen shot, check the Log to file box at bottom left.
I did check that, thanks!
Also, I am on 5.3.2.2 which is the last STABLE version.
View attachment 69769
I will try to roll back to this.

Are you running BI as a service? Make sure you computer isn't going to sleep (see Win10 Settings / System / Power & sleep).

View attachment 69770
It IS set to run as a service and Power settings are never/never/never
I will double-check the screen above



Also, have a look here in IPCT for Blue Iris Tools. It's a handy little program that, among other things, has a watchdog on the BI service and will re-start it automagically for you. That can be a good thing in a case like your, but can be a PITA when trying to do an upgrade/update. Never mind how I know that:D
I wiill look at this. I've stayed with the most basic setup expecting that to equal most stable; but it sounds like I could use some automagic.

Blue should be run as a service.

You have an "Restart after an unexpected shutdown" at 4:26:20 AM.
Open the log folder and look at the previous log file, see if there is any indication there.
Open the windows event viewer and look around 9/1/202 @ 11:51PM for any errors.

You blue iris status clip storage looks good.
That fits with when I randomly woke up and saw that it had crashed so i restarted and went back to sleep (grumbling fiercely)
Apparently I've been saving no logs (setting now fixed above)
Will look at WEV next

What settings do you have for database rebuild? BI won’t record while it’s doing this.

I’ve set mine to do it once a week and on a Sunday early afternoon when most probably we’ll be home.
OK....
Just now, you are getting my most sincere deer-in-road-look. I have NO Idea and I'll start looking for the settings.
 
Joined
May 1, 2019
Messages
2,215
Reaction score
3,504
Location
Reno, NV
just so everyone is on the same page... you do know what "start Blue Iris as a service" means, right? For those who do not know who are coming into Blue Iris, you start up your computer and Blue Iris automatically starts running in the background (no main Blue Iris window open, no cameras visible). But it works behind the scenes still recording motion and alerts or however you have it configured (you can use UI3 remotely too since Blue Iris is running in the background). You just do not see the main screen with cameras. I always run my Blue Iris as a background service, never really the main program as it takes up CPU resources. If I have to edit a camera or fiddle with Blue Iris settings, I start the main program (unsure if it is called "main" program but I double click on the desktop icon to see main page), reconfig/edit what I gotta do, and close (hit the upper-right X) the main program leaving the background service still running automatically. This is what is commonly referred to as a "Headless System".

Hmm.. what if you snagged the garage camera for temp purposes, set infront of monitor and do continuous recording? Should see if computer reboots for some reason) on the monitor. * thinking * ok do not do that! You would create a Heseinberg Time Loop Wormhole and your house will end up like the end of Poltergeist.
 
Last edited:

inline6

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Nov 18, 2019
Messages
36
Reaction score
31
Location
canada
CPU usage is high.
You're not benefitting from the substream to lower the CPU usage.
Go into each camera GUI and lower the resolution and frame rate of the substream. I have had no issues with setting mine ,as an example, as such:
4MP camera- Main stream (2688*1520) @30fps i-Frame@30 (it's bandwidth usage is around 500 kB/s)
Sub stream (704*480(D1) @3fps i-Frame@3 (it's bandwidth usage is around 33 kB/s)
That one setting is worth 94% bandwidth saving or 470kB/s)
Your screenshot suggests its using full bandwidth as the substream and large MP cameras.
After you change the camera Subs settings you must add the alternate path in the Blue Iris Video configuration.
Usually you can cut and paste the Main stream path and manually change the address by +1. ie: Main path- /cam/realmonitor?channel=1&subtype=0 ... blah blah blah
Sub path /cam/realmonitor?channel=1&subtype=1 ... blah blah blah
That's my Dahua. Other cameras likely different and easier
Huge CPU saving. Do this and watch the system walk along instead of run at full speed resource and capacity 24/7
 

MrSurly

Getting comfortable
Joined
Jun 6, 2020
Messages
386
Reaction score
690
Location
TX
just so everyone is on the same page... you do know what "start Blue Iris as a service" means, right? For those who do not know who are coming into Blue Iris, you start up your computer and Blue Iris automatically starts running in the background (no main Blue Iris window open, no cameras visible). But it works behind the scenes still recording motion and alerts or however you have it configured (you can use UI3 remotely too since Blue Iris is running in the background). You just do not see the main screen with cameras. I always run my Blue Iris as a background service, never really the main program as it takes up CPU resources. If I have to edit a camera or fiddle with Blue Iris settings, I start the main program (unsure if it is called "main" program but I double click on the desktop icon to see main page), reconfig/edit what I gotta do, and close (hit the upper-right X) the main program leaving the background service still running automatically. This is what is commonly referred to as a "Headless System".

Hmm.. what if you snagged the garage camera for temp purposes, set infront of monitor and do continuous recording? Should see if computer reboots for some reason) on the monitor.
OK, a lot to look at, here. I have the setting selected to Run as service, but to be frank, I've not tried to run it purely as a back ground for two reasons: I actually hadn't thought of that approach and IF it is running that way, how does one monitor that it's working? Is there a system tray with an activity indicator?
I've had so much instability with it so far that I don't trust it. I want to be able to see at a glance from a cross the room that it's running.
I have another dahua here That I am going to position as a monitor...aimed at the monitor(!)
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
24,448
Reaction score
47,574
Location
USA
You could open up Task Manager to monitor BI usage or use UI3 instead of the full program. But if it is set as a service, it will automatically restart if it drops.
 
Joined
May 1, 2019
Messages
2,215
Reaction score
3,504
Location
Reno, NV
Yep... my Blue Iris server is down stairs in laundry room with no monitor or keyboard or mouse hooked to it. I use my main PC upstairs in man-cave to remote desktop into the server if I need to open up Blue Iris program for anything. To quickly see live stream cameras, alerts, or clips...I use UI3 from Main PC.
 

looney2ns

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Sep 25, 2016
Messages
15,521
Reaction score
22,657
Location
Evansville, In. USA
The T processor maybe the issue, it is basically a laptop processor in a desktop, it's underpowered. From the wiki:
  • Systems with a "T" suffix on the CPU (e.g. i5-6500T) are underpowered versions designed to fit in smaller cases and meet stricter energy-usage requirements. These are significantly less bang for your buck.

Have you thorough gone threw this? Optimizing Blue Iris's CPU Usage

You dont have the substreams correctly configured, see the link in the optimizing link.
 
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
1,090
Reaction score
852
Location
Colorado
Double check that CPU. It should either be: i5-6500T (4c/4t) or i7-6700T (4c/8t). One is mid-range + low-power the other is higher-tier but still low-power.

What's your Blue Iris desktop view refresh rate (unlimited or something less)? If you are running Blue Iris as a service, you should be able to run it without the client viewer open. I know it will be weird not looking at it, but maybe you can eliminate that as a problem by shutting just the preview client down for 48 hours?

Have you postponed all automatic Windows Update and Reboot options?
 

MrSurly

Getting comfortable
Joined
Jun 6, 2020
Messages
386
Reaction score
690
Location
TX
OK, I've made (I believe) significant progress; thanks to the very helpful guidance of all of the experienced and helpful members in this thread. I needed hand-holding and y'all got me over the hump.
First, I'm not through making changes/corrections as I haven't had a lot of time. One of the things left to do is to get the time synced on a couple of the cameras. I'll be adding more cameras to the mix very soon as well. I will also be adding Blue Iris Tools as suggested.
The major errors I've been making:
1. Although SET AS a SERVICE, I missed something, somewhere and apparently BI was not actually running in the background, I was running the GUI and the background BI exe was STOPPED.
BTW: The BI that runs as a service has a shortcut called "Blue Iris.exe",
while the shortcut for the desktop GUI version is called "Blue Iris 5 Admin"
Poking around Task Manager for the BI service's status, I found 'stopped' and checking other tabs within Task Mgr, I found 'Disabled'. I was able to "enable' in a dialog and after that, the BI background is now running. A major concern was that I hadn't been able to TRUST BI to stay running/recording and when not running the GUI, I seemed to have NO indication that things were working and I wanted a way to have a reassuring indicator that it was alive, without the GUI. I discovered, after getting the service running that while the WIN desktop offered ZERO feedback (no flashing tray icons etc), my WD Purple is in a StarTech external case which, once I turned it around away from the wall, lo and behold, has a two-line array of tiny LEDs (blue) that flash purple during any write event, so now, the purple/blue LEDs provide the much-needed feedback that insecure-me really needed. (YAY) Nothing at all writes to that drive except BI, so I've now got feedback. Now that I have the service running properly I expect much less trouble.
Next, my substream setup was broken (BI settings) on some cams and working but not optimized (web GUI) on others. While most were set at 720x480 or similar, they were also at 12-15FPS. Following INLINE6's example, I set them all to 3FPS & iframe=3.
In the BI settings, I had to correct the subtype=(#) to properly be an increment higher in the sub than in the main.
This morning it was interesting to see this difference; replaying a car driving by, the video played three frames with the car advancing, say, 40 foot~ frame to frame. Double-clicking to see the main, the same replay at 1X was silky-smooth. Pretty cool. I don't know if the 3fps might be problematic in some way(?)
The CPU usage has fallen dramatically.
I am also able to get the iPhone app up (while on the local WiFi) and see BI running.
Next hurdle is learning/configuring remote.

I will post some screenshots of current setup at the end below.

just so everyone is on the same page... you do know what "start Blue Iris as a service" means, right? For those who do not know who are coming into Blue Iris, you start up your computer and Blue Iris automatically starts running in the background (no main Blue Iris window open, no cameras visible). But it works behind the scenes still recording motion and alerts or however you have it configured (you can use UI3 remotely too since Blue Iris is running in the background). You just do not see the main screen with cameras. I always run my Blue Iris as a background service, never really the main program as it takes up CPU resources. If I have to edit a camera or fiddle with Blue Iris settings, I start the main program (unsure if it is called "main" program but I double click on the desktop icon to see main page), reconfig/edit what I gotta do, and close (hit the upper-right X) the main program leaving the background service still running automatically. This is what is commonly referred to as a "Headless System".
Yep... my Blue Iris server is down stairs in laundry room with no monitor or keyboard or mouse hooked to it. I use my main PC upstairs in man-cave to remote desktop into the server if I need to open up Blue Iris program for anything. To quickly see live stream cameras, alerts, or clips...I use UI3 from Main PC.
Thanks for this clarity. Yes, this is what I intend, ultimately, to do (or try). I plan to install the BI PC, the purple drive and a small UPS inside of a very large safe that I have. There is wiring access already. I'm aware that this may prove unworkable due to heat buildup and that's one possible benefit of this low-power processor. Of course, I have a heat source in the safe, now, to prevent condensation so this PC would be supplanting that heater...but possibly over-doing it.
The in-safe placement is to protect the system as much as possible in the event of fire or burglary.
Hmm.. what if you snagged the garage camera for temp purposes, set infront of monitor and do continuous recording? Should see if computer reboots for some reason) on the monitor. * thinking * ok do not do that! You would create a Heisenberg Time Loop Wormhole and your house will end up like the end of Poltergeist.
Actually did this, created the wormhole effect etc. The monitor's refresh rate and the cam's frame didn't play well together, though. The cam was a 6mm bullet (nee the mailbox hide) and I could never get it to adequately focus on the monitor well enough to read the info needed.
CPU usage is high.
You're not benefiting from the substream to lower the CPU usage.
Go into each camera GUI and lower the resolution and frame rate of the substream. I have had no issues with setting mine ,as an example, as such:
4MP camera- Main stream (2688*1520) @30fps i-Frame@30 (it's bandwidth usage is around 500 kB/s)
Sub stream (704*480(D1) @3fps i-Frame@3 (it's bandwidth usage is around 33 kB/s)
That one setting is worth 94% bandwidth saving or 470kB/s)
Your screenshot suggests its using full bandwidth as the substream and large MP cameras.
After you change the camera Subs settings you must add the alternate path in the Blue Iris Video configuration.
Usually you can cut and paste the Main stream path and manually change the address by +1. ie: Main path- /cam/realmonitor?channel=1&subtype=0 ... blah blah blah
Sub path /cam/realmonitor?channel=1&subtype=1 ... blah blah blah
That's my Dahua. Other cameras likely different and easier
Huge CPU saving. Do this and watch the system walk along instead of run at full speed resource and capacity 24/7
Thanks for this, I followed your numbers as mentioned; CPU currently running in the teens, while NOT running the GUI, just looking at the service in Task Mgr. I currently have eight cams on continuous, three 8MP, five 4MP.
You could open up Task Manager to monitor BI usage or use UI3 instead of the full program. But if it is set as a service, it will automatically restart if it drops.
This would require the Tools install, correct? I see that it starts on boot...
The T processor maybe the issue, it is basically a laptop processor in a desktop, it's underpowered. From the wiki: Systems with a "T" suffix on the CPU (e.g. i5-6500T) are underpowered versions designed to fit in smaller cases and meet stricter energy-usage requirements. These are significantly less bang for your buck.
Have you thorough gone threw this? Optimizing Blue Iris's CPU Usage
You dont have the substreams correctly configured, see the link in the optimizing link.
Yeah, I sought out this M700 TINY PC specifically for its dimensions and its i5 chip plus other features in the little box format without researching the suffix importance. I'm going to give it a solid try out. If it proves to be too sucky, I will go for the M700 (not TINY) as those can be had with 8th gen and better desktop chips. The box is only a half-inch thicker so still quite svelte.
Double check that CPU. It should either be: i5-6500T (4c/4t) or i7-6700T (4c/8t). One is mid-range + low-power the other is higher-tier but still low-power.
yes, it's the i5-6500T (see above)
What's your Blue Iris desktop view refresh rate (unlimited or something less)? If you are running Blue Iris as a service, you should be able to run it without the client viewer open. I know it will be weird not looking at it, but maybe you can eliminate that as a problem by shutting just the preview client down for 48 hours?
addressed above
Have you postponed all automatic Windows Update and Reboot options?
Yes

Some snags:
Annotation 2020-09-04 004625.jpgAnnotation 2020-09-04 063842.jpgAnnotation 2020-09-04 074015.jpgAnnotation 2020-09-04 074325.jpgAnnotation 2020-09-04 074439.jpgAnnotation 2020-09-04 074906.jpgAnnotation 2020-09-04 074943.jpgAnnotation 2020-09-04 075149.jpgAnnotation 2020-09-04 075234.jpgAnnotation 2020-09-04 075303.jpgAnnotation 2020-09-04 074014_LI.jpg
 
Last edited:

bp2008

Staff member
Joined
Mar 10, 2014
Messages
12,666
Reaction score
14,007
Location
USA
Go into each camera GUI and lower the resolution and frame rate of the substream. I have had no issues with setting mine ,as an example, as such:
4MP camera- Main stream (2688*1520) @30fps i-Frame@30 (it's bandwidth usage is around 500 kB/s)
Sub stream (704*480(D1) @3fps i-Frame@3 (it's bandwidth usage is around 33 kB/s)
Live viewing will be limited to 3 FPS if you do it this way. The sub stream frame rate should be equal to the main stream frame rate. Don't worry about the extra CPU cost of the high frame rate sub stream, because it is more than made up for by the low resolution.
 

MrSurly

Getting comfortable
Joined
Jun 6, 2020
Messages
386
Reaction score
690
Location
TX
Is your purple drive in the external enclosure connected via USB? FYI: This could possibly give you fits.
It IS connected USB3 and is apparently more reliable than when connected eSATA. I can revert to SATA if the USB3 becomes a problem. SATA is fast, I know, but external SATA (eSATA) while equal in speed to SATA, suffers from truly shitty connectors that lack retention. In a server rack with cable management, OK, but desktop use is sketchy in my experience. On other devices I've seen them literally just fall out due to having no latch and little friction. SATA is made for bolt-in. The SATA header in these compact machines are for bolt-in 2.5" drives. Purples are only 3.5" so, bolt-in is not an option. I added an eSATA port from the header but the external cable just never seems secure at either end. The USB 3 conversely seems solid in its connections. USB3 is pretty darn quick, (theoretically much faster than SATA) so we'll see.
Also, tho likely meaningless, the USB 3 on this drive case uses the B style (printer) connection which seems better than the USB 3 micro.
 

inline6

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Nov 18, 2019
Messages
36
Reaction score
31
Location
canada
Live viewing will be limited to 3 FPS if you do it this way. The sub stream frame rate should be equal to the main stream frame rate. Don't worry about the extra CPU cost of the high frame rate sub stream, because it is more than made up for by the low resolution.
True. Multi camera view will be limited to 3 FPS.
My system is only an i5 3470. Any higher FPS on the sub works my CPU over.
If something is of interest I just click and full stream in its glorious majesty is revealed.
On an underpowered system ever bit helps sometimes.
 
Top