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The rant against Ring

Natey2

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I've seen a number of valid concerns against Ring (and Cloud security cameras in general) posted in various threads here, but one aspect that makes Ring appealing to the masses has not been publicized/mentioned: the Neighbors (app by Ring) community.

Enabling a neighbor to easily share a video so that the neighborhood can see what is going on there may be a compromise of personal privacy (as perceived by some) but it allows others to leverage that to better prepare themselves and to aid local law enforcement for the greater good.

I have a D-Link security cam and a V380 lightbulb security cam, both WiFi, feeding (RTSP) into Blue Iris 4, for 24/7 recording to SSD. I periodically push those recordings to MS OneDrive (cloud).
I also recently had a Ring Video Doorbell Pro installed; the professional installer was telling me about security and privacy concerns as he installed it.

While I'm sure a professional in the field using high-end PoE security cameras can outdo my setup in many ways, I'll say that I'm happier with my Ring Pro for close quarters recording and night vision than with the other two I currently have.

* Living in a HOA-controlled environment prevents me from mounting a security camera overtly.


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looney2ns

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Your other two cams are subpar to say the least. A $120 real cam would blow all of them out of the water, especially at night.
Ring neighborhood app, allows the world to see on a regular basis, how truly poor of job those cams do.
 

mat200

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I've seen a number of valid concerns against Ring (and Cloud security cameras in general) posted in various threads here, but one aspect that makes Ring appealing to the masses has not been publicized/mentioned: the Neighbors (app by Ring) community.
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HI Natey2,

Was this a ring pro capture?

upload_2019-8-6_10-1-30.png

Check your settings, this image capture imho should be significantly better for a 1080P camera

Are you compressing the heck out of this to save bandwidth?


Re cloud cameras:
Yes - SCaaS companies need to work hard to keep getting their monthly check from folks and having a "neighbors" sharing ability is a big part of the "how do we maximize the monthly profit stream and get customer lock in".
 

Natey2

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Was this a ring pro capture?
Was a neighbor's cam, with that video uploaded/shared to the Ring cloud.
Not sure of the cam model.

I looked in my Ring app settings for my Pro and don't see an option to increase/decrease resolution.
I recall it ran a test and if you got less than 1 MB/s (or 2 MB/s?) , you indicated that, and I suspect it would use a lower resolution or something.

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mat200

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Was a neighbor's cam, with that video uploaded/shared to the Ring cloud.
Not sure of the cam model.

I looked in my Ring app settings for my Pro and don't see an option to increase/decrease resolution.
I recall it ran a test and if you got less than 1 MB/s (or 2 MB/s?) , you indicated that, and I suspect it would use a lower resolution or something.

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Hi @Natey2

With a lot of the cloud cameras there is basically a slider or check boxes on the app to use more "bandwidth" = more bandwidth = better resolution. ( not certain where the one for the Ring camera would be, however I know nest cameras and arlo's have it )
 

Natey2

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Sometimes, we see technologically inferior products beat technologically superior ones, due to the sales/marketing prowess/strategies of the companies behind the former ( see separate thread at Technological inferiority that prevailed )

Amazon is behind Ring. They'll mass-market these Ring doorbells and cams and other related devices to their masses, who are not necessarily video security professionals or even high-end cam users (e.g. like myself, looking for something to augment my 2 other "sub-par" cameras which I got a while ago while initially tinkering with security cams). I mean, the cam brand that I see touted here often as being really good is not really a household name for any product I have seen or used. And if anybody tries to build a Nordstrom-class cam, they'll lower their prices and drive them out of the market a la Sears.

As long as the Ring outperforms the previous cam, it will earn its place as a "good" camera, and it will be perceived as a move in the right direction.

Average users just want to see their video footage. They don't want the hassle of dealing with storage media and a ton of files with some strange extension that needs a specialized player. You want them to export the media recordings to a different format?? That sounds like a lot of work to the average user, who does not really want to do any work at all except click on a button on his mobile app and see some video footage of what happened.
That's why the Cloud based solutions are popular.

With the advent of social media sites, nobody pays as much attention to personal privacy anymore. Just shoot any old video and upload it to the cloud to enable it to be shared easily is the new mantra. Even kids not old enough to have a drivers license know how to do that really well these days. Resolution is usually an afterthought when something really critical is found to be blurry. But hey, we know it was a guy with a beard wearing a baseball cap and jeans. That should be good enough, right?

While I do appreciate better tech specs in a device, I can't say that's going to prevail in this market.

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davej

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My personal feelings about Ring:

1. wifi connection is not reliable, and it does not inform you of wifi connection dropouts.
2. sends video clips to your phone -- which is impractical if I am on the road with poor data rates.
3. camera night-vision quality is very poor.
4. unit gets baked in the sun every summer afternoon.
5. PIR will not detect through storm door glass.
6. doorbell wiring support is a joke. They want to sell you a bell unit.
7. no option to record to a NAS or shared drive.
8. company website allows no customer feedback or customer forums.
 
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Natey2

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My personal feelings about Ring:

1. wifi connection is not reliable, and it does not inform you of wifi connection dropouts.
Yes, difficult to assess WiFi dropouts, if any.
Edit: My Asus router has WiFi connection durations. I'll keep an eye on it to see how long the Ring Pro can stay connected on my 5G network. I hear the power (3.9V to 4.5V ?) to the Ring Pro doorbell is critical for proper operation.

2. sends video clips to your phone -- which is impractical if I am on the road with poor data rates.
I'm quite sure the videos are stored in their Cloud and only a link/url is sent to your Ring mobile app.

3. camera night-vision quality is very poor.
It is better than my 2 other sub-par cameras.

4. unit gets baked in the sun every summer afternoon.
5. PIR will not detect through storm door glass.
Placement. Some are better off than others. I don't have any obstructions. I'll post if the sun destroys it. My other camera antenna casing started crumbling.

6. doorbell wiring support is a joke. They want to sell you a bell unit.
The Ring Pro needs a 16V 30VA doorbell transformer. Many homes only have 16V 10VA. My existing doorbell chime (20+ years old) works fine.

7. no option to record to a NAS or shared drive.
They are a Cloud-only service I believe. You can download the video clip (mp4) to your mobile device.

8. company website allows no customer feedback or customer forums.
Home - Ring Community


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Holbs

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Before I first came to this IpCamTalk community, I was one of those people who was interested in put up camera's around my house, initially wireless and from Costco. Something really cheap. As I combed through the forums posts here about reviews, opinions, facts, politics, security, etc.... I came to the conclusion I do not want any cloud based/fee subscription based models, nor wireless cameras. While more than 90% of the Ring customers are happy campers (or subsequent cloud based models), I am happy within that other 10%. Right now, nobody can jam/interfere/power outage my wifi camera's because they are hardwired. Same for my future DSC hardwired security system. Not so much for my future Z-wave home automation system but HA will not handle critical applications. Also while cloud based is the easy/cheaper way which most people are AOK with, I certainly do not want any big brother or dude in his basement to have access to anything (even front facing camera doorbell) within my home palace or property. Sure, everything seems chippy and great about Ring. There will come a day rather soon, they all will be hacked and self-destruct causing fires, or when you press the button you get shocked, or this or that. Ok..kididng :) But still.... there will be a downside in today's good cop / bad cop internet hacking world upon the forces of IoT's.
Am I paranoid? Maybe. Happily so :)
 

Rakin

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You can keep your shared cloud storage.


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Natey2

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I think they only save it in their Cloud for 60 days. Got to download the recording locally if longer retention is needed. That costs $3/month or $30/year, for 1 device. That sounds reasonable, IMO.
I think it costs $100/year for unlimited Ring devices. That does not sound reasonable, IMO.

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Natey2

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Sample of my Ring Pro video format, 1-min, 27MB:


OK, rip it to shreds with your super cam recording format.

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nbstl68

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We have a ring doorbell cam on my mom's house and I am very UNimpressed with the performance for all of the reasons mentioned by others and more. Another family member bought it as a gift. She does not have a budget and no one has the time or wants to bother setting up and managing a real system, so this is a "better than nothing at all" solution and I think that is a big part of its popularity. Sure it sucks but it is relatively quick and easy and, hey, it's something rather than nothing...never mind you end up not even paying attention to the alerts because of all the false triggers or slow start up causing whatever the motion was has passed by the time the camera starts recording.

The ONLY thing I like about it is any problen I had was handled by U.S. based tech support so it made it so much less frustrating and were actually fast and helpful.
 

mat200

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Ring video of Hurricane Dorian destruction: A man watched on doorbell camera as a tornado from Hurricane Dorian destroyed his home - CNN

Where would your recording be?

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Thanks @Natey2

Cool video.

Good capture for Ring, we were lucky to have gotten that one as it depends if the tornado hits the power lines / internet lines before it hits the house....

Ideally if you want redundancy you have both on-premise and cloud storage.. however in most situations bandwidth, data caps, video quality, and costs make continuous recording to the cloud a challenge.

Also, with cloud service providers - do you really own the video??
 

Natey2

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Also, with cloud service providers - do you really own the video??
I could be wrong, but the video is only accessible to Ring and yourself while it is stored in their cloud. Law Enforcement may have some right to view things on there for justifiable cause. So don't appear in front of the doorbell in any manner you don't want anybody else to see (e.g. nude), I guess. LOL

However, if you share a video on Neighbors to alert the neighborhood, anyone can then share the link to that video too, so the video may be like in the public domain at that point.

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