Thinking of converting, where do I start?

HMC8403

Getting comfortable
Joined
Jul 10, 2020
Messages
163
Reaction score
314
Location
Chicago
Before I shipped out I purchased my nephew the pc he wanted as a graduation gift; my sister just told me that he later changed his mind and went the Apple route. Past the Costco return window, I now have a decent PC waiting for me when I get home; as I am also an Apple user, considering switching from Dahua NVR to Blue Iris.

The PC is a Dell XPS8950 with a i7-12700, 32gb Ram and GeForce RTX3060TI. It has a 512gb SSD and a 1tb HDD; figured I can keep the SSD, remove the stock HDD and install the two 8tb WD purples from the NVR.

My question is where do I start? The BI site doesn’t seem to have a user’s manual and this forum is great but there are too many posts and a crazy amount of replies to each; and yes I looked at the Wiki. Is there a A2Z doc out there that covers the basics; install BI, general settings, adding cameras, config record, setup AI? Also and recommendations on a which POE to order and from where; do I get a 16 port or is 2 8s better?
As always, thanks for the help.
 

HMC8403

Getting comfortable
Joined
Jul 10, 2020
Messages
163
Reaction score
314
Location
Chicago
Download BI and instead of paying select demo and you get a 14 day evaluation and there is an over 200+page manual that is the A2Z doc to get you going that you can access when you pull up the console.
Awesome, will take a look. Thanks.
 

Flintstone61

Known around here
Joined
Feb 4, 2020
Messages
6,587
Reaction score
10,894
Location
Minnesota USA
You don't need to know weverything to get started.
Just get the software installed, on your PC, and get your network configured into the 192.168.1.1-254 segment. Assign you PC something simple like .100..... to figure out your POE switch, The unmanaged TP-link POE 16 channel on Amazon is ok for starting out.

pickup a couple POE cams like the Amcrest 1179EW and a Loryta 5442-ZE, and on a desk or workbench before you put them somewhere hard to reach...plug them into the switch (1 at a time) because they'll have the same default IP address of 192.168.1.108.
you can open a browser and surf to 192.168.1.108 and look for a login screen
It should prompt you to create a login Password, then surf to "Network" and assign a static IP address. ( maye put them all into like .40 thru .60 and take notes of that. DONOT FORGET the newly created cam password. I use the same cam pass for all 25 of my camera's
Because You don't have enough to remember on any given fuckin day anyway.....

You can use the Amcrest or Dahua IPconfig tool to help show you what it sees for camera's on your network.
Once you gettheir IP addresses changed to static, ( 192.168.1.40) etc...
You can surf to the BLUE IRIS and in the "gear icon" you can find Add new camera,
now take th data you created for the new camera
Admin/ Pass/ Ipaddress
and bring that data into add new cam menu,
the click on " Find/Inspect"
Then come find us...LOL
 
Last edited:

HMC8403

Getting comfortable
Joined
Jul 10, 2020
Messages
163
Reaction score
314
Location
Chicago
Ok, so I installed the demo version and managed to connect to the cameras that are currently on my NVR; until I get a stand alone POE, I guess this is my only option. Wow, there are so many settings, so overwhelming. Hopefully I will be able to figure this out within 3 weeks before I head off again.

Thanks to @wittaj, I have a ton of help documents to dive into but I have a couple quick questions. Deepstack, GPU of CPU version? I currently have 10 x 4MP cameras, the majority being Dahua 5442; will this slowdown my home network and and will putting these cams on my home network expose me to hacking? When using BI, are camera settings changed via BI or do you have to log into the IPC directly?

Thanks,
 

Attachments

Last edited:

Flintstone61

Known around here
Joined
Feb 4, 2020
Messages
6,587
Reaction score
10,894
Location
Minnesota USA
many of the cam settings need to be from the cam. but motion parameters are availbale in BI, as well as pre-record timing, and direct to disk recording, etc....
you can add substreams to BI like this ---->
1663676342436.png
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
24,445
Reaction score
47,568
Location
USA
You want to keep these cameras off your home network. The simplest way is to add another ethernet card in the PC and put all the cameras into that port via switch with a different IP address range than your home network/internet.

All camera specific settings are done within the camera gui. BI simply takes what is fed to it.

In addition, you can use the AI of the 5442 cameras and not use Deepstack. You simply tell BI to pull ONVIF triggers.

Don't jump in to Deepstack until you get a feel for BI. Then try CPU version first and see if it is a problem on your computer and if it is then add a GPU.
 

Old Timer

Known around here
Joined
Jul 20, 2018
Messages
1,352
Reaction score
2,945
Location
I'm ok
You also need to log into the cameras, and set the frames per second down around 12-15 FPS, then set I frames to the same as FPS.
This will help motion detection since the full frame will be sent every time and Blue Iris looks at full frames for motion.

Most of us run 10-15 FPS. You don't need 30 FPS like a movie, we would rather have less frames that are fully in focus and sharp.
I am sure you will get into most of this when you get farther down the road.
 

HMC8403

Getting comfortable
Joined
Jul 10, 2020
Messages
163
Reaction score
314
Location
Chicago
I am definitely jumping down the rabbit hole. I spent several hours last night trying to find a POE switch; read through all 17 pages of the POE thread in the cliff-notes, searched eBay and Amazon and am still trying to find something.

You want to keep these cameras off your home network. The simplest way is to add another ethernet card in the PC and put all the cameras into that port via switch with a different IP address range than your home network/internet.
My home was built in the 1950's so running new Cat5e is difficult. For my cameras, I went from the attic, out the soffits and hidden in the corners of the siding. As seen in the picture, the NVR and UPS is in the second floor laundry room. There is only one Home LAN cable that travels to the first floor where the modem is. I might have jumped the gun last night and mounted the new PC under the desk in the first floor office. The PC is currently on WiFi but there is a single Cat5 in the wall that leads to the modem. If dual ethernet isn't an option, would I go with VLAN, would that be a managed POE switch?

Depending on your journey with Blue Iris, you should consider if that desktop will exclusively run Blue Iris. If you Don’t intend to play video games or process photography/edit, then you don’t need that graphics card installed. You will save money on electricity by removing it.
We are a Apple family so the PC will mostly be used for BI; it might be used for some light work like writing a paper, QuickBooks or googling "how to use BI" or "what POE to buy" :) . I'm not worried about the electricity from the graphics card; after installing solar several years ago, my summer bills hardly crosses $20.
 

Attachments

DanDenver

Getting comfortable
Joined
May 3, 2021
Messages
488
Reaction score
782
Location
Denver Colorado
Is installing a second NIC card necessary or just an option
I just logged into my router and turned off internet access for each camera.
Isn’t that sufficient?
 

HMC8403

Getting comfortable
Joined
Jul 10, 2020
Messages
163
Reaction score
314
Location
Chicago
You don't need to know weverything to get started.
Just get the software installed, on your PC, and get your network configured into the 192.168.1.1-254 segment. Assign you PC something simple like .100..... to figure out your POE switch, The unmanaged TP-link POE 16 channel on Amazon is ok for starting out.
I only have a few weeks until I ship out again and I was unprepared to start this project. Honestly would not have even thought of converting to BI since I have a relatively new Dahua NVR system that is working almost perfectly, but having this $1,000 PC sitting around gets the nerd in me stirring. Just worried about starting something that I won't have time to finish and leaving the house without coverage.

My brother-in-law has a dental office in a bad area of Chicago; that office only had 4 cheap interior cameras. I had ordered an NVR and cameras in March from Andy and finally installed them from him this past Sunday. I still need to go back to finish things up.
 

Attachments

sebastiantombs

Known around here
Joined
Dec 28, 2019
Messages
11,511
Reaction score
27,690
Location
New Jersey
The objective is to keep all the camera traffic off of the router. Most consumer grade routers will not be able to handle the constant demand of video surveillance cameras without interfering with "normal" computer traffic for gaming, watching movies or whatever.

Also have a look at enabling sub streams on all of your cameras. It will cut CPU utilization significantly. It's not at all hard to do and well worth the effort. It's not key at this point, but it is an important feature to take advantage of at your earliest convenience.

Sub stream Guide
 

HMC8403

Getting comfortable
Joined
Jul 10, 2020
Messages
163
Reaction score
314
Location
Chicago
The objective is to keep all the camera traffic off of the router. Most consumer grade routers will not be able to handle the constant demand of video surveillance cameras without interfering with "normal" computer traffic for gaming, watching movies or whatever.

Also have a look at enabling sub streams on all of your cameras. It will cut CPU utilization significantly. It's not at all hard to do and well worth the effort. It's not key at this point, but it is an important feature to take advantage of at your earliest convenience.
Let me start by saying that I am a Medic and the only IT stuff I know is from Google and Forums like this; luckily I do catch on quickly. My setup includes a Arris Surfboard modem in bridge mode and a Unifi USG which handles my DHCP and Firewall; it has been a while since I set them up and not sure if they are considered consumer grade and if they can handle the cameras.

From what I have read I am planning on recording the sub stream most of the time and main stream only for alerts, but doesn't the main stream still transmit to BI 24/7 and take-up bandwidth so it can be recorded when triggered?

Attached is a picture of my "server" closet; I keep planning to clean it but other projects keep getting in the way :banghead:
 

Attachments

Perplexed

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Sep 5, 2022
Messages
70
Reaction score
98
Location
USA
I just went down this route... I am far from an expert, but here's my $.02

Needed:
-POE Switch
-2nd Network card for your PC to isolate the cameras from your primary network (new NIC will connect to the POE switch, existing will connect to your LAN)
-Surveillance HDDs of your choice

I did a fresh/clean install of Windows 10, installed various updates, drivers, and turned RDP On. Also followed the wiki here to disable updates to the graphic drives in the future.


To get the base installation going, I figured it would be a pain in the butt. Nope, it was easy. I knew the IP address range of my cameras (previously set to static on my old NVR) prior to going in. I set the 2nd NIC on the PC to xxx.xxx.xxx.1, and then used an IP scanner to give me a list of the cameras that were powered on. Then added the cameras 1 by 1 to Blue Iris.... the video feed just started.

For initial configuration, I went through every tab making sure I specified my deployments information - file storage, how I wanted recordings to work, etc. I did a lot of google searching on this forum (blue iris XYZ config site:ipcamtalk.com) to narrow down various things I didn't quite understand just yet. That was a huge help.

I had planned to spend a week ironing out the details on getting my system setup. It took hours. So, then I jumped into SenseAI thinking that would be a pain in the butt to configure..... nope, that took about 30 min to get up and running.



Sometimes I like a challenge to get something running & working the way I want - helps occupy my free time/a good complex project. This cutover was NOT one of those.... damn thing just works easily - I could nit-pic a few things, but by and large this was one of the easiest cutovers I've done from an IT standpoint

For storage, I'm running 13 cameras at 4mp/.264/25fps. With 2-4TB HDDs I should be able to get 40-45 days of retention if the current GB/Day stays consistent using continuous + triggered.
 

sebastiantombs

Known around here
Joined
Dec 28, 2019
Messages
11,511
Reaction score
27,690
Location
New Jersey
The main stream is available 24/7 but that doesn't mean it creates traffic 24/7. When using sub streams and recording "continuous + alerts" or "continuous + triggered" the only time the main stream creates traffic is during an alert or trigger.

The USG may have the bandwidth to handle the video streams but it is still "best practice" to keep the cameras off of the router. If you're pulling an HDMI cable pull another one, or three, and add a second NIC to your Blue Iris machine just for the cameras. That will isolate them, pretty much totally, from your router and, more importantly, from the internet for security purposes.
 

Perplexed

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Sep 5, 2022
Messages
70
Reaction score
98
Location
USA
Just noticed you are using a USG; I am as well.

using a separate POE switch on my system, the traffic from the cameras is quite impressive. I'm very happy that my USG isn't having to manage that data, as well as the other 40 devices in my house (mix of wired/wireless/IoT).
 

looney2ns

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Sep 25, 2016
Messages
15,521
Reaction score
22,657
Location
Evansville, In. USA
A Netgear ProSafe Poe switch will serve you well. Or one of the Ipcampower Poe switches from the store here.

You don't need deep stack with those 5442 cameras, get familiar with the camera settings instead, IVS rules and filtering by human or automobile are very reliable when set up properly.
 

HMC8403

Getting comfortable
Joined
Jul 10, 2020
Messages
163
Reaction score
314
Location
Chicago
A Netgear ProSafe Poe switch will serve you well. Or one of the Ipcampower Poe switches from the store here.

You don't need deep stack with those 5442 cameras, get familiar with the camera settings instead, IVS rules and filtering by human or automobile are very reliable when set up properly.
Would that be managed or unmanaged switch? Someone on the POE thread stated that a 16 port should have a min 250 total watts but most I find are closer to 200w
 

sebastiantombs

Known around here
Joined
Dec 28, 2019
Messages
11,511
Reaction score
27,690
Location
New Jersey
It's probably worth thinking about reality of your own power budget/needs. Most PoE cameras, other than PTZ, only use 7-10 watts of power with their IRs on, maximum load. 16 ports full of them would mean about 160 watts maximum. A PTZ might need 30 watts or more. I would never recommend loading all available ports on a switch in the first place, redundancy with switches is always a good idea. That further reduces the possible maximum load on the switches and gives them a break as well which can lengthen their life.
 
Top