Total Moron in the camera arena seeks advice on NVR/DVR package

[JuneauJeff]

Hello. I work for a small business, we own a large building with 3 restaurants within it. We are looking to purchase a self-contained system for indoor surveillance of sensitive areas (alcohol storerooms, cash tills, etc). Because of our location and bandwidth limitations (We're in Alaska) I cannot have a system that is uploading video to the internet from each camera, which is why I am looking at NVR/DVR systems. It would also make things easier for us if the system was POE, as a few of our desired camera locations would be difficult to power separately. While we'd like our footage to be internally stored and not uploaded to the internet, we would like to be able to access the DVR from the web via an app or a web interface. (We'd like to be able to pop in and check the cameras via the net)

I have read a few threads on this forum regarding the first solution I found, which was the Reolink 4MP 8CH PoE Video Surveillance System. Sounds like most of you are not big fans of this system. I am having trouble sorting out whether that is because it is a faulty product, or because there are just better solutions (that cost more) available. The price point of the reolink system is feeling a bit too good to be true, but will it work for the simplistic use we are describing? I see many forum participants mentioning that the brand Dahua is an obviously better solution, but I need a solution I can just order online and self-install, and I've read that I have to go through a licenced installer/distributor for those products, and that is probably a barrier for me being in the remote place that I'm in.

Any advice on this topic would be greatly appreciated, I am a complete amateur when it comes to surveillance equipment and this will be my first time getting involved in it, but I have worked in or around IT for years and am not technologically illiterate, if that helps frame your answers at all.

 

[SouthernYankee]

My general great is below, the greeting is normally for home users, but will work for you.
Reolink cameras are pure crap. They do not work well in low light conditions.
You can buy a complete dahua system and have it delivered to your place of business, and install it yourself. See the bottom of my post.
A kit as an NVR recorder and cameras from a big box store will have compromises this is how they keep the price down.
For your business you need low light cameras, more than one camera for each location.

Read study plan before spending money.
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My standard welcome to the forum message.

Please read the IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes and other items in the IP Cam Talk Wiki. (read on a real computer, not a phone). The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.

Quick start
1) If you do not have a wired monitored alarm system, get that first
2) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras if you need good low light cameras.
3) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
4) Do not use wifi cameras.
5) Do not use cloud storage
6) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
7) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
8) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
9) Do not use reolink, ring, nest, Arlo cameras (they are junk), no cloud cameras
10) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
11) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
12) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
13) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 8ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
14) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)
15) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator V3
16) POE list PoE Switch Suggestion List


Cameras to look at
IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+) - 4MP starlight
IPC-T5442TM-AS Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ - 4MP starlight+
IPC-T2347G-LU Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera. (DS-2CD2347G1-LU)
IPC-HDW2231R-ZS Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal
IPC-HDW2231T-ZS-S2 Review-OEM IPC-T2231T-ZS 2mp Varifocal Starlight Camera
IPC-HDW5231R-ZE Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
IPC-HFW4239T-ASE IPC-HFW4239T-ASE
IPCT-HDW5431RE-I Review - IP Cam Talk 4 MP IR Fixed Turret Network Camera
DS-2CD2325FWD-I
N22AL12 New Dahua N22AL12 Budget Cam w/Starlight -- low cost entry

Other dahua 4MP starlight Dahua 4MP Starlight Lineup

My preferred indoor cameras
DS-2CD2442FWD-IW
IPC-K35A Review-Dahua IPC-K35A 3mp Cube Camera

If interested in Blue Iris and other setup items see the following post

Newbie Starter Guide to IP Cam System – VPN setup – Computer Hardware – Blue Iris – Dahua Cameras

This is an intermediate / newbie guide for people just starting out looking for a surveillance setup. I know this setup might not be for everyone and there are many options. You can find a lot of this information in the Wiki: IP Cam Talk Wiki | IP Cam Talk A great place to start in the Wiki...

ipcamtalk.com

Camera Sensor size info Sensor Size Chart Generally bigger is better

Before asking a question search the forum first...
The best way to search the forum is to use Google Advance search

Google Advanced Search

set site or domain to ipcamtalk.com
OR
in the google search window enter.. site:ipcamtalk.com ?????? ..where ?????? is the items/terms you are interested in.

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Test do not guess

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if you are interested in International Dahua cameras, a forum member sells dahua (and some Hikvision) and ships world wide. You can read some of the members recommendations on his service. He also provides cameras to other forum member for evaluation and reviews.
you can email him for a quote, or purchase from his Aliexpress store or his Amazon store. The cameras are fully upgradable, he posts upgraded software when available.

Andy
@EMPIRETECANDY
kingsecurity2014@163.com
Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: EmpireTech Andy
Andy's AliExpress store: Empire Technology Co., Ltd - Amazing prodcuts with exclusive discounts on AliExpress
Andy's Amazon store: EmpireTech-Andy @ Amazon.com:
forum: EmpireTech Andy
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[sebastiantombs]

A comment on why Reolink is a poor choice. Reolink seems to feel that they know best what frame rate and iframe rate the camera should supply at any given time, no matter what you may set it for. The iframe is critical since that is a "full" frame of video that producs the reference for the next frames, which contain movement. The result is video tearing and herky jerky video as well as the possibility of missing a critical piece of video in the process. I have a Reolink camera set to 25 frames per second and 25 i frames per second and am lucky to get 15 frames and .7 iframes per second out of it.

 

[JuneauJeff]

Thanks very much for the responses. There's a ton to digest here, and I will use the forum search as you suggested should I encounter any further questions.

 

[JuneauJeff]

After reviewing everything that's been shared here I have gathered what I think is a complete system. I'm going to share it here and I'm hoping that someone with some real knowledge could give it a once-over to make sure there aren't any glaring incompatibilities in what I've assembled.

First, the cameras. I was planning on purchasing 8 of these: US $148.42 6% OFF|2019 New Arriving AI IP Camera IPC T5442TM AS LED 4MP Full color Starlight+ WDR Turret AI Network Camera, free DHL shipping-in Surveillance Cameras from Security & Protection on AliExpress

Connecting them by pulling our own cabling, using this ethernet:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007NHJODC/?tag=ipctk-20

Connecting into the IPcamtalk NVR : 16 Channel POE Network Video Recorder | IP Cam Talk

Using this hard drive for the NVR:

https://www.amazon.com/SEAGATE-Enterprise-Capacity-Internal-ST6000NM0024/dp/B00MCEJ0IA/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=HDD+6tb&qid=1579824008&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_four_browse-bin:8067154011,p_n_feature_keywords_two_browse-bin:6799355011&rnid=3598629011&s=pc&sr=1-3

Am I missing any components to make this work? Is there any incompatibilities I am not seeing?

Thanks so much for the help so far. It's been immensely appreciated.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Just keep in mind that those cameras use visible, white, light to produce color at night. They are excellent cameras but bright, white, lights might not be what you're looking for.

 

[tigerwillow1]

You need to absorb a few more issues to avoid some avoidable mistakes:

1) The camera you've selected is a fine camera, but it's also got a fixed length lens, a fixed view angle. There are different lenses available and you need to make sure the field of view is what you want. If you can correctly determine this, that's great. Otherwise, consider the 5221 or 2231 series cameras that have adjustable focal length. The 2231s don't have built in audio, if that's important to you.

2) If you use an NVR, you want it to be the same brand as the cameras, The statement about third party cameras being supported is true, but what it doesn't say is you lose a lot of the camera's features if it's not the same brand as the camera. I believe that the ipcamtalk NVR is from Hikvision and you likely would be unhappy using it with Dahua cameras. (If I have this wrong, somebody will issue a gentle correction). Another alternative is the Blue Iris software that turns a PC into an NVR. With that, it's safe to mix-and-match camera brands. Many forum users think it's the best choice. (Don't know personally because I run a Dahua NVR).

3) The general consensus of the forum is that WD purple drives are a better choice than Seagate. I don't know this myself, just echoing what I've read.

 

[SouthernYankee]

Please buy only one camera to start. Use the test rig (bucket,rocks,2x4) to verify the location of the cameras, also to verify the correct lens. It is a good time of year to do night testing.
Please buy the cameras and NVR from the same manufacture and vendor.
The cable looks good.
For a hard drive it is normally recommended to use a surveillance specific drive, Like a WD Purple.

Go slow to start. Test, do not guess.

 

[JuneauJeff]

Thanks for all the help so far. I am now going back and forth on the inclusion of Blue Iris and a PC or an NVR. What I can't seem to determine is, if I use the IPCamtalk branded NVR and use the IPCamtalk 4 MP IR Varifocal Bullet Network Camera (I am now doing more reading on camera choices, thanks to tigerwillow1's helpful advice about focal lengths. Not sure the bullet is right for my needs yet, just wanted to use it as an example) will I be able to log into the NVR from off-site on a PC or phone, or is that something that would require Blue Iris? I have found some posts that seem to indicate that the NVR's can be accessed from outside, but I can't seem to find anything that really verifies that on the product page or on the forums, perhaps I'm not using the right terminology.