Trying to Find the Right Balance with a New Camera Setup

[Jar_m0c]

Hi all,

Found this wealth of information really helpful during my search for a security camera setup. I've done some searching, read the wikis and cliff notes, etc. I have a bit of a conundrum that I wanted to get some advice on.

I come from an initial set up of Arlo cameras (we lived in apartments, and wireless was a huge deal). I then moved to a 7-camera set of Blink cameras (we finally bought a house, but it was brand new and 2-story, so I didn't want to drill a bunch of holes...). Now, life circumstances have changed; we've had our first child last year who is severely disabled, and we've since sold our 2-story and moved into a single story. Since the single story makes running wires a heck of a lot easier, and my daughter's disability will require in-home nursing help, I've decided it's time to get into a 'real' security system.

Here's my initial thoughts:
• 8 cameras total; 4 outside and 4 inside
• Having the best night vision is not the highest priority (except for one exception)
• I feel like having the detail of 4k is a pretty big deal, especially since I've always been very disappointed in the 1080p resolution of past camera systems
• I've been looking at turret-style cameras mostly: they seem more aesthetically pleasing, and most (at least, from what I've found) have a little higher FOV, which I feel like is important for indoors
• The one exception: I'm not sure what to do about the camera for my daughter's room. On one hand, I feel like 4k is necessary so I can have good detail for what nurses are doing; but I also feel like night vision is going to be important in order to see what's going on at night with the lights off.
• I don't really want to have two cameras in her room for different reasons
• I have a budget between $1,500 and $2,000. I'm not sure if that's enough, but it seems like it could be based on my research so far.

So what do the experts think? If you have any advice or insight for me, I'd sure appreciate it!

 

[samplenhold]

Welcome to the forum.

Most everyone here will tell you not to try and do everything at the same time. It may be prudent to get a 4MP (like the 5442 Dahua) and try it out in different places. You may find that the 4MP cameras have plenty of resolution. If you read the Cliff Notes, it talks about setting up a test rig.

I guess your first decision is NVR or PC/Blue Iris? If you go the NVR route, you really need to pick a brand and purchase the NVR and cameras from that brand. Mixing brands on an NVR is not recommended. If you go the PC/Blue Iris route, then brand preference is not so important as BI can handle all sorts of brands. But it is nice to have all the same brands for ease of keeping track on how to set them.


For your daughter's room, if you are going to expect good video in total darkness (lights off) then IR is going to be your only option for night. So picking a good low-light color camera is moot. There are no 4K cameras in your price point that do well in low-light color mode. So pick a good camera that has good color images in good light and has decent B&W IR images also.

I also prefer turrets for outdoor. The only bullets I have are for LPR. For outdoor where you want to ID a face at night in low-light color, the best cameras now are the Dahua 5442 line and the Hikvision Darkfighter. If you do not plan your outdoor cameras properly, you risk not being able to get a good face shot when it is needed. That can be very frustrating. A guy down the street spent a grand on a bunch of cameras (Arlo, Ring, etc) and had a door checker get into his pickup and made off with some stuff. He recorded the whole thing, but the images were very poor...it could be anyone. His wife was pissed. Spent a grand and can't even tell if it was a guy or girl she said.

 

[Jar_m0c]

Welcome to the forum.

Most everyone here will tell you not to try and do everything at the same time. It may be prudent to get a 4MP (like the 5442 Dahua) and try it out in different places. You may find that the 4MP cameras have plenty of resolution. If you read the Cliff Notes, it talks about setting up a test rig.

I guess your first decision is NVR or PC/Blue Iris? If you go the NVR route, you really need to pick a brand and purchase the NVR and cameras from that brand. Mixing brands on an NVR is not recommended. If you go the PC/Blue Iris route, then brand preference is not so important as BI can handle all sorts of brands. But it is nice to have all the same brands for ease of keeping track on how to set them.


For your daughter's room, if you are going to expect good video in total darkness (lights off) then IR is going to be your only option for night. So picking a good low-light color camera is moot. There are no 4K cameras in your price point that do well in low-light color mode. So pick a good camera that has good color images in good light and has decent B&W IR images also.

I also prefer turrets for outdoor. The only bullets I have are for LPR. For outdoor where you want to ID a face at night in low-light color, the best cameras now are the Dahua 5442 line and the Hikvision Darkfighter. If you do not plan your outdoor cameras properly, you risk not being able to get a good face shot when it is needed. That can be very frustrating. A guy down the street spent a grand on a bunch of cameras (Arlo, Ring, etc) and had a door checker get into his pickup and made off with some stuff. He recorded the whole thing, but the images were very poor...it could be anyone. His wife was pissed. Spent a grand and can't even tell if it was a guy or girl she said.

Hi Sample,

Thanks for the recs of specific cameras. Part of what I'm befuddled about is which cameras are better than others (despite MPs, prices, etc), so thanks for giving me some specifics to look into.

I'm going to go the NVR route. I've been invested in the Apple ecosystem for some time, and I believe BI only runs on Windows machines. I think going the NVR route will make the whole setup a little easier on me.

For my daughter's room, we won't have total darkness. She has to have medicines throughout the night, and it's important to be able to see the color of her face (she lives on a ventilator), so we'll have some sort of ambient light in that room. Maybe a night light or something like that. Instead of using multiple cameras, would it be beneficial to use a single camera and maybe a separate IR light from another angle to make sure that there's enough IR to get details?

I'm not too concerned about getting face shots outside right now. Primarily, I use the outdoor cameras to know if there's motion outside while I'm at work. Although I would definitely entertain the idea of 1 or 2 cameras being strategically placed in order to get face shots with detail; it's just not my primary purpose for having the cameras outside.

 

[samplenhold]

would it be beneficial to use a single camera and maybe a separate IR light from another angle to make sure that there's enough IR to get details?

So there is some light and the color of her face is important. So running the cam in IR mode is out since that mode will get you B&W. Even the best cameras have trouble duplicating exact colors in low-light. Right now in the prosumer price range the Dahua 5442 line and the Hikvision Darkfighter are the best bets. I have only used Dahua, but others here are quite taken with the Hik Darkfighter. You can see reviews of specific cameras here. In your search use the word 'review' in the titles box.

Since the most important is your daughter's room, buy one and test it out in there. You will have to play with the settings and maybe adjust lighting to get the desired image. Personally, I take people's recommendations on what to buy with a grain of salt. Everyone has their favorites and it may not be best in your case. But most people's views on what NOT to get are quite valid. Hopefully others will chime in as I am by no means an expert here.

Oh, BI is only on Windows as you stated. I am a BI user, not NVR. But many here use NVRs. I am pretty sure @bigredfish is an NVR guy and he is a fountain of knowledge. Look for @SouthernYankee for his standard welcome which has incredible amounts of info for you to look at. Also @looney2ns does camera reviews here that are very thorough.

 

[samplenhold]

having the detail of 4k is a pretty big deal

Additional thoughts. In your daughter's room detail is important to you, and low-light color performance is important also. These are trade offs in cams. The most important parts for this issue is sensor and lens (focal length). Take two cameras, one a 2MP and one a 4K (8MP). If they have the same sensor, you will get less low-light performance from the 4K. This is due to getting less light per pixel since there is 4x as many pixel on the same size sensor. The current state has the 1/1.8" sensor being the most bang for the buck, most folks here will tell you. Just something to think about.

 

[GentlePumpkin]

As @samplenhold said it will be difficult to monitor your daugthers oxygen ventilation state with any camera. The IR illuminator won't help you see more colors because the visible colors are in a different light spectrum than the infrared light. I'd probably rather utilize a medical patient monitor with alert functionality, but I guess the annoying finger connector is why you want to try something else? I'm not sure, but I think I saw wireless finger clamps recently.

 

[SouthernYankee]

My standard welcome to the forum message.

Read Study Plan before spending money
Cameras are for surveillance to get information for after the fact.

Please read the IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes and other items in the IP Cam Talk Wiki. (read on a real computer, not a phone). The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.

Quick start
1) If you do not have a wired monitored alarm system, get that first
2) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras if you need good low light cameras.
3) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
4) Do not use wifi cameras.
5) Do not use cloud storage
6) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
7) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
8) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
9) Do not use reolink, ring, nest, Arlo cameras (they are junk), no cloud cameras
10) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
11) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
12) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
13) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 7ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
14) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)
15) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator V3
16) POE list PoE Switch Suggestion List
17) Camera Sensor size, bigger is general better Sensor Size Chart
18) Camera lens size, a bigger number give more range but less field of view. Which Security Camera Lens Size Should I Buy?


Cameras to look at
IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED . Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+) - 4MP starlight
.................... Dahua IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED review
IPC-T5442TM-AS ..... Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ - 4MP starlight+
IPC-B5442E-ZE ...... Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+
IPC-T2347G-LU ...... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera. (DS-2CD2347G1-LU)
IPC-HDW2231R-ZS .... Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal
IPC-HDW2231T-ZS-S2 . Review-OEM IPC-T2231T-ZS 2mp Varifocal Starlight Camera
IPC-HDW5231R-ZE .... Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
IPC-HFW4239T-ASE ... IPC-HFW4239T-ASE
IPCT-HDW5431RE-I ... Review - IP Cam Talk 4 MP IR Fixed Turret Network Camera
IPC-T5241H-AS-PV ... Review-OEM IPC-T5241H-AS-PV 2mp AI active deterrence cam
IPC-T3241-ZAS ...... Review-OEM IPC-T3241-ZAS 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal -- 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal
IPC-HFW2831T-ZS ... Review-Dahua IPC-HFW2831T-ZS 8MP WDR IR Bullet Network Camera -- 8MP Bullet 1/1.8” sensor variable focus.
DS-2CD2325FWD-I
N22AL12 ............ New Dahua N22AL12 Budget Cam w/Starlight -- low cost entry
IPC-T2347G-LU....... Review-Loryta OEM 4MP IPC-T2347G-LU ColorVu Fixed Turret Network 4mm lens & Junction Box -- 4MP ColorVu
.................... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera.

Other dahua 4MP starlight Dahua 4MP Starlight Lineup

My preferred indoor cameras
DS-2CD2442FWD-IW
IPC-K35A

https://ipcamtalk.com/threads/review-dahua-ipc-k35a-3mp-cube-camera.37581/#post-373517

If interested in Blue Iris and other setup items see the following post

Newbie Starter Guide to IP Cam System – VPN setup – Computer Hardware – Blue Iris – Dahua Cameras

This is an intermediate / newbie guide for people just starting out looking for a surveillance setup. I know this setup might not be for everyone and there are many options. You can find a lot of this information in the Wiki: IP Cam Talk Wiki | IP Cam Talk A great place to start in the Wiki...

ipcamtalk.com

Before asking a question search the forum first...
The best way to search the forum is to use Google
In the google search window enter.. site:ipcamtalk.com ?????? ..where ?????? is the items/terms you are interested in.
Example site:ipcamtalk.com PALE MOON BROWSER

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Test do not guess

 

[looney2ns]

Hi all,

Found this wealth of information really helpful during my search for a security camera setup. I've done some searching, read the wikis and cliff notes, etc. I have a bit of a conundrum that I wanted to get some advice on.

I come from an initial set up of Arlo cameras (we lived in apartments, and wireless was a huge deal). I then moved to a 7-camera set of Blink cameras (we finally bought a house, but it was brand new and 2-story, so I didn't want to drill a bunch of holes...). Now, life circumstances have changed; we've had our first child last year who is severely disabled, and we've since sold our 2-story and moved into a single story. Since the single story makes running wires a heck of a lot easier, and my daughter's disability will require in-home nursing help, I've decided it's time to get into a 'real' security system.

Here's my initial thoughts:
• 8 cameras total; 4 outside and 4 inside
• Having the best night vision is not the highest priority (except for one exception)
• I feel like having the detail of 4k is a pretty big deal, especially since I've always been very disappointed in the 1080p resolution of past camera systems
• I've been looking at turret-style cameras mostly: they seem more aesthetically pleasing, and most (at least, from what I've found) have a little higher FOV, which I feel like is important for indoors
• The one exception: I'm not sure what to do about the camera for my daughter's room. On one hand, I feel like 4k is necessary so I can have good detail for what nurses are doing; but I also feel like night vision is going to be important in order to see what's going on at night with the lights off.
• I don't really want to have two cameras in her room for different reasons
• I have a budget between $1,500 and $2,000. I'm not sure if that's enough, but it seems like it could be based on my research so far.

So what do the experts think? If you have any advice or insight for me, I'd sure appreciate it!

You are most likely disappointed in 1080p cams because you have not experienced a good camera yet.
The 5442 series is hard to beat at the moment all the way around.
Not recommending this camera, but this has some examples that shows what a 2mp can do when setup properly.
Review-Dahua SD6CE245U-HNI Starlight PTZ 45x Zoom | IP Cam Talk

Dahua has a couple of cams that are "full color" and can do very well with little light, and still stay in color. Whether it would work for your situation, only you could determine that.
This is an upcoming cam that is 4mp, with very good on paper specs for lowlight. You would still need some sort of ambient illumination in the room for good night time video.
Now whether or not it would be good enough to determine face color I don't know, unless the color changes are obvious, and not subtle.

IPC-HFW5442T-ASE-NI

IPC-HFW5442T-ASE-NI

www.dahuasecurity.com

If you purchase a cam that does not work out for you, you generally can sell them on here or ebay without much trouble to recoup the cost.