Weekend home in the woods: system upgrade

Moonville

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The question first:

How to determine what I need to buy? The intention with this first post is not to put the cart before the horse and request specific product/service recommendations. Rather, I want to try to get a 'big picture' understanding of what components/systems I need and what my options are. Y'all probably will have questions for me first.

The situation:

My weekend home is a mobile home on 30 acres in a rural area. Never had any intruders in 46 years - until recently. They cut the phone and siren wires and made off with a fair amount of loot.

Now I want a system that can call out via cellular. The property is at the end of a decrepit POTS line and it (phone and internet) fails regularly.

Out in the boonies like that it's unlikely thieves would be caught in the act so I guess the point is to scare them off and hopefully get some photos.

Basic features/functionality I want:

Note: I already know I do not want ADT or Brinks, for the cost and contracts and I do not want Vivint or Ring Alarm due to their proprietary components.

1. Monitoring via cellular (signal is marginal so I need to determine antenna options)

2. Monitoring service like Alarm Grid perhaps?

3. A few cameras to start with and the ability to add more later

4. Ability to access and control from anywhere via mobile device

5. Ability to add smart home accessories - I currently have a Honeywell WiFi t-stat

I can do any installation work myself but my big concern is being able to have someone I could call to ask any technical questions that come up. I would probably need some help with set-up, programming, etc. (I would gladly pay someone for this service.)

I appreciate any and all replies...
 

Teken

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The question first:

How to determine what I need to buy? The intention with this first post is not to put the cart before the horse and request specific product/service recommendations. Rather, I want to try to get a 'big picture' understanding of what components/systems I need and what my options are. Y'all probably will have questions for me first.

The situation:

My weekend home is a mobile home on 30 acres in a rural area. Never had any intruders in 46 years - until recently. They cut the phone and siren wires and made off with a fair amount of loot.

Now I want a system that can call out via cellular. The property is at the end of a decrepit POTS line and it (phone and internet) fails regularly.

Out in the boonies like that it's unlikely thieves would be caught in the act so I guess the point is to scare them off and hopefully get some photos.

Basic features/functionality I want:

Note: I already know I do not want ADT or Brinks, for the cost and contracts and I do not want Vivint or Ring Alarm due to their proprietary components.

1. Monitoring via cellular (signal is marginal so I need to determine antenna options)

2. Monitoring service like Alarm Grid perhaps?

3. A few cameras to start with and the ability to add more later

4. Ability to access and control from anywhere via mobile device

5. Ability to add smart home accessories - I currently have a Honeywell WiFi t-stat

I can do any installation work myself but my big concern is being able to have someone I could call to ask any technical questions that come up. I would probably need some help with set-up, programming, etc. (I would gladly pay someone for this service.)

I appreciate any and all replies...
There are four rings of security and the first ring is threat assessment. This is coupled with awareness and information so you can react / plan for a outcome. In combat the most valuable weapon is accurate live, timely, factual information so one can have defensive vs offensive solutions in place.

From a security audit standpoint it comes down to what has changed. If the period of 46 years is true what has changed?!?

More people? New road / Access? Hunting? Trail / Bike path?

That is the first thing that needs to be determined as it pertains to the human element. Next is the property as it relates to sight lines. Is the mobile home easily seen by a major road way, path, bush line.

This is followed by what are the physical barriers to the property meaning is the path to the mobile home dirt, gravel, concrete? Are there bridges, coverts, that need to be passed.

Does the property have any fencing or signage?

How far is the next human / property 30 acres? Once this information is known and validated you work toward the next ring of security which is part of the force protection elements which cover a wide scope.

True security is a state of mind and lifestyle. If you intend to walk this path these two concepts must be accepted and integrated into your life.
 

Moonville

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what has changed?!?
The only change I can think of is that in the last year (approx) I have been to the property less frequently. I hope to soon return to the usual frequency of every other weekend.

Is the mobile home easily seen by a major road way, path, bush line?
No, it is not easily seen from any place.

physical barriers to the property meaning is the path to the mobile home dirt, gravel, concrete? Are there bridges, coverts, that need to be passed?
Custom steel gate at entrance at state highway. Gravel driveway 500 feet long and one culvert.

Does the property have any fencing or signage?
No signage other than address signs. The only fencing is ancient discontinuous farm fence, so no practical fencing.

How far is the next human / property
There are two or three houses each about 1/2 mile away.
 

Teken

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COMMUNITY: Are you in contact with the adjacent property owners? If not, this is the first step which is to use the community at large. If you’re in contact and have good relations advise them of the current theft so they can be mindful of the same while keeping a look out.

Advise and report this theft to the police so it’s recorded and matter of public record. This is all about awareness and being made aware so contact information should be provided / exchanged.

SIGNAGE: Post signs indicating no trespassing and the property is under video surveillance and protected (monitored) by X. Signs should be posted on the perimeter of the property well in advance of the defined breach line.

BREACH LINE: You’ll want to define at the minimum three zones (rings) from wide, medium, small that encompasses the mobile home. The larger the ring dictates what you see, know, cost, resources, hardware etc.

^ This will be talked about and referenced many times.

LIGHTING: As of this writing the ability to install lighting anywhere on a property has never been easier or cheaper due to Amazon, AliExpress, eBay etc. With the advent of high quality solar lighting it’s possible to install the same without the extra costs of wiring.

Install perimeter lighting that is a combination of always on, dim to on, on based on motion. Lighting provides health & safety to light a path, area, zone etc. But also plays a huge role in obtaining that money shot by CCTV. It reduces motion blur / ghosting while objects are not static.

A properly lit area is less likely to be trespassed or breached. As it pertains to lighting placing the same with a random schedule offers that lived in occupied look. So this should be in place and used.

CHOKE POINTS: The hardest position to defend is in low ground. This is made worse when a person / other can enter or leave from multiple points. A choke point whether it be natural or man made needs to limit a person’s ability to enter / leave unnoticed.

Only you can determine how realistic it is to define the breach lines. As noted up above the larger the breach lines directly reflects finance & resources. Fencing can encompass full on to posts and panel to as low tech as chicken wire and drift wood, snow fence, etc.

SENSORS: Generally speaking these are your eyes and ears. So it comes down to balancing reliability, false positives, costs, and deployment of the same. Anything outside obviously needs to be IP rated to offer any measure of reliability and operation.

The front gate should obviously be locked but a contact sensor to determine open / closed state. This should be coupled by installing a in ground loop sensor to detect large objects like a vehicle.

The vast majority of outdoor PIR sensors of quality are very expensive but also false. Anything other than the same is a compromise you’ll need to accept or not. So choose wisely as to purchase, placement, deployment amounts / location etc.

Dual tech microwave / PIR sensors offer higher reliability and less false tripping but also false depending upon environment and temperature.

The use of sound detectors in a consumer setting isn’t practical. Lasers in the consumer market are also not reliable. Dedicated Microwave, ultrasonic and infrasonic sensors don’t work unless you throw a whole bunch of money at it.

CONNECTIVITY: As you noted early on communications was the weak link. As such it’s important to have parallel redundancy in place. Before you even consider cellular take out the same and try to make a call, receive a call in different parts of the property. Now take the same and try to watch a YouTube video at different times and locations of the property.

What are the results?!?
 

fergenheimer

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Moonville, I have excellent service with a cradlepoint access point with a tmobile sim. My tmobile phone gets marginal service but the access point at 20 foot high gets 35ish on download and 15ish upload. Understand that for cameras, the upload is the important number. You might also supplement with cellular trailcams in event of power loss. A ups to supply the radio, router, and a couple of vital cameras will help gather evidence if they do cut power.

Google navigation and Waze etc. are excellent at rerouting LOTS of traffic down quiet country roads to save a couple of minutes on your commute. I have seen miles and miles of crawfish and cane fields in Louisiana when I-10 was shut down. Anyone routed down your state road might notice that your entrance had not been mowed in a while. Keeping up appearances is difficult but important.

Your neighbors might be the most honest people around but if they have work done on their place, the contractors might not be. A roofer might be able to see and notice nobody coming or going for the 4 to 5 days he's up there even at 1/2 mile. A new mail carrier could case hundreds of places a day and never be suspect.

I have used insteon sensors to create the appearance of a presence. For example, a pir motion detector in the barn would turn on a flood light locally but also one in the house. A detector on the front porch would turn on the bedroom light, 10 seconds later, the hall light then the porch light. It could even set off a siren if needed. You can also operate them remotely. Insteon takes some learning and is not widely adopted so their offerings are sparse. I just started using Alexa and it is easy. The privacy issue with any big company products is a huge concern. But if you had an Alexa echo there, you could "drop in" and listen if you got an alarm.

As you explore this forum you will find lots of excellent reviews. These aren't cheesy YouTube "influencers" reviews but in depth evaluations that they put a lot of time into. There are a lot of strong opinions here on what not to buy. I respect their opinions and avoid those products. Based on the reviews here, I buy dahua cameras. You get to see the models perform in real world conditions and make an informed decision on what to buy. I have not been disappointed with any of my dahua cameras.

Welcome to the forum. I hope you read, learn and stick around awhile!
 

Moonville

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I appreciate the replies so far - very helpful.

BREACH LINE: You’ll want to define at the minimum three zones (rings) from wide, medium, small that encompasses the mobile home.
In my case, does that mean the "wide" ring includes the gate at the public road?

The larger the ring dictates what you see, know, cost, resources, hardware etc.
I'm not clear on this point.

...try to make a call, receive a call in different parts of the property. Now take the same and try to watch a YouTube video at different times and locations of the property.
In addition to that, is there any information using the field test mode of the iPhone that would be helpful?

(Of immediate concern) In the interest of getting the place secure as soon as possible I was considering adding to the existing control panel the ability to call out via cellular in the event the system is tripped. Can this be done practically, including being able to use whatever new equipment I buy now (cellular communicator, antenna, etc) with the new control panel I'll be getting in the near future?
 

Flintstone61

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I had an interesting experience with a Fire Alarm company about 2 years ago. The Condo I manage does not have a Monitoring service tied into the fire alarm, I.e. they aint coming....unless somebody calls them.
We called the Alarm co. and they told us that if you use POTS, you are required to use 2 lines. and it's about $80 month plus equipment blah blah blah.....
Then he mentioned a newer thing with Cellular equipment that would call the FD. a little higher upfront cost, but lower monthly cost. So he came out with a tester and checked ATT, Verizon, and T-mobile, signal strengths where the equipment would be.
It was ATT #1, Verizon#2, and T-mob #3. Only ATT had passed the minimum %age to utilize cellular equipment.
SO the point of all this is, if you go Cellular, maybe try to find the strongest signal in that area......and hopefully you'll have better service.
 
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Teken

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I appreciate the replies so far - very helpful.



In my case, does that mean the "wide" ring includes the gate at the public road?



I'm not clear on this point.



In addition to that, is there any information using the field test mode of the iPhone that would be helpful?

(Of immediate concern) In the interest of getting the place secure as soon as possible I was considering adding to the existing control panel the ability to call out via cellular in the event the system is tripped. Can this be done practically, including being able to use whatever new equipment I buy now (cellular communicator, antenna, etc) with the new control panel I'll be getting in the near future?
Almost any security alarm panel can be updated to send via cellular. This comes down to deciding upon a 3rd party cellular device or one made by the same vendor. The market has lots of options with respect to cellular so choose carefully as to what frequency / signals they support.

In 2021 it makes little sense to buy one that is so called single band 2G. Products that support GPRS, 2-4G, LTE insures your security panel can connect to almost any cellular ISP and than relay to a CS.

It should be noted almost all (newer) security panels allow a combination of POTS, Cellular, IP, as primary. Whereas some allow POTS as primary cellular / IP as back up. Others allow parallel signalling of any of the three.

So confirm what your existing panel offers and it’s limitations as some also do not support the correct signalling format.

As it pertains to the outer ring that’s up to you to decide upon. In most cases the gate / fence line makes sense for the outer ring. In combat that outer ring is enlarged to provide a longer lead time of awareness so down the road etc.

Given the advancement of CCTV (PTZ) / varifocal lens cameras the average person can now have similar (distance) awareness abc warning. Unlike the military that use all manner of satellite, drones, multiple spotters etc.

The average person can use a CCTV camera to provide that advanced warning etc.
 

concord

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Another option to cellular, albeit more expense, is starlink.
 

Moonville

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I talked to a salesperson at Alarm Grid to ask what I need to add cellular monitoring to my system. Due to the age and limitations the current control panel (Napco GEM-P3200), he suggested a Honeywell Vista 20P with a 6160 keypad ($155.99). The communicator would be a Honeywell LTEM-PA ($157.99).

One thing the salesperson said that compromised my confidence: He said "...if the cellular signal outside your home is not good enough, an antenna isn't going to help you - you need a cellular amplifier." Huh?

Questions:

1. Are the two items mentioned appropriate choices given that I want to add cameras and remote home automation in the future?

2. I called Alarm Grid because others on this forum seemed to be pleased with their service. What other companies should I consider if I don't want to self-monitor?
 

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I talked to a salesperson at Alarm Grid to ask what I need to add cellular monitoring to my system. Due to the age and limitations the current control panel (Napco GEM-P3200), he suggested a Honeywell Vista 20P with a 6160 keypad ($155.99). The communicator would be a Honeywell LTEM-PA ($157.99).

One thing the salesperson said that compromised my confidence: He said "...if the cellular signal outside your home is not good enough, an antenna isn't going to help you - you need a cellular amplifier." Huh?

Questions:

1. Are the two items mentioned appropriate choices given that I want to add cameras and remote home automation in the future?

2. I called Alarm Grid because others on this forum seemed to be pleased with their service. What other companies should I consider if I don't want to self-monitor?
Are you a do it yourself hand guy?

For a cellular communicator, they do not have a good way to connect an antenna.
Most of the time they just put in a cellular amplifier system that has 2 antennas and an amplifier in between.
Search for WeBoost
 

Old Timer

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Start out here, they are one of the better systems out there.
Take it from an ex cell tech, the good ones work well, the cheap ones can be a real cr@p shoot.
They can start a feedback loop like a public address system does, causing interference,
maybe even blocking the cell tower from accepting calls.
I have tracked down a few to get them shut down.
Later as an engineer, we worked to keep the cheap ones from being sold.

These systems will help your cell phones as you wander around the house also, so go ahead
and get one that will cover the whole house.
 

Moonville

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Are you a do it yourself hand guy?
Yes, I am. I spent 20 years in audio/video systems design and installation, including TV, FM, and satellite antenna work.

For a cellular communicator, they do not have a good way to connect an antenna.
Most of the time they just put in a cellular amplifier system that has 2 antennas and an amplifier in between.
Search for WeBoost
Are you saying that the Honeywell LTEM-PA doesn't have a good way to connect to an antenna?
 

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Yes, I am. I spent 20 years in audio/video systems design and installation, including TV, FM, and satellite antenna work.

Are you saying that the Honeywell LTEM-PA doesn't have a good way to connect to an antenna?
The 20P is easy to install, little harder to program, but doable if you take your time.
I went and looked, looks like internal antennas.
If it had an external antenna connector, you could run low loss coax, and an outside antenna.
Some companies do make them with connector, then a little screw on antenna.
 

Teken

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I talked to a salesperson at Alarm Grid to ask what I need to add cellular monitoring to my system. Due to the age and limitations the current control panel (Napco GEM-P3200), he suggested a Honeywell Vista 20P with a 6160 keypad ($155.99). The communicator would be a Honeywell LTEM-PA ($157.99).

One thing the salesperson said that compromised my confidence: He said "...if the cellular signal outside your home is not good enough, an antenna isn't going to help you - you need a cellular amplifier." Huh?

Questions:

1. Are the two items mentioned appropriate choices given that I want to add cameras and remote home automation in the future?

2. I called Alarm Grid because others on this forum seemed to be pleased with their service. What other companies should I consider if I don't want to self-monitor?
As noted early on the only thing that matters as it pertains to cellular is you standing there in the home, outside, and perimeter.

Make a call and document how the sound quality is. Have someone call you from all three spots what are the results?

Now try to stream a YouTube video for the next hour from all three spots - results?!?

You’ll quickly learn one, either, both, all are successful or show varied performance reception. Height is your friend so any properly tuned antenna cable installed at 20-50 feet is going to give you night and day performance and that’s just height!

Self monitoring is completely a waste of time. If you don’t want to worry about future losses raise your insurance coverage and keep the home empty.

Nothing to take - Nothing to steal. Insurance will take care if anyone decides to light your house on fire even if it’s empty for fun.

That happens everywhere in North America because addicts, kids, bums, exist.
 

Moonville

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I called Alarm Grid and Alarm Relay to ask what equipment they recommend for my situation. Details listed below.

Question 1. Do you have a preference of the monitoring services of one company over the other?

Question 2. Would you buy the equipment from the company you sign up with or elsewhere?

ALARM GRID:

-- Honeywell Vista 20P with a 6160 keypad - $155.99
-- Honeywell LTEM-PA - $157.99
-- Cellular Monitoring - $35, $45 for video

ALARM RELAY:

-- Honeywell Vista 20P with a 6160 keypad - kit includes 3) 5816 WMWH Door Window Contacts, 1) 5800-PIR-RES, 1) Wave2 Siren - $224
-- Alula LTE Bat Connect - $189
-- Cellular Monitoring - $19.95-$23.95, additional $5 for each increment of four cameras
 
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