What's the best camera type for an exterior wall that covers front door walk up?

Discussion in 'Chit-Chat' started by Weather_Junkie, May 21, 2018.

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  1. Weather_Junkie

    Weather_Junkie Young grasshopper

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    So, I'm looking for a camera that'll mount to the wall right next to my front door. I was looking at another Amcrest dome camera but some have mentioned that by being mounted vertically, rain drops both wet and dried up could eventually block a clear view as I don't have a covered front porch. My worry is a bullet camera that has some rain protection for the lens might not give me the FOV I want to cover for front door walk-ups and any action in the street and neighbor's driveway.

    My wife bought a Ring doorbell to cover anyone walking up to our door but I had her return it because it only detects motion 30 feet away and doesn't record 24/7 like my Amcrest cams/Blue Iris setup does. Plus I need about 100 feet of NV to get my neighbor's driveway and garage since he's paying for the camera. He figures it's cheaper and less of a hassle to just pay for one on my house then install a system of his own. He has a house alarm but always has very expensive cars in his driveway all the time and travels a lot. He calls or texts me nearly everyday he's out of town to check on his vehicles so I'll be able to give him his own access through BI and in return, my front door, yard and road can be monitored at the same time.

    So will a bullet camera be wide enough to cover my front door or will my only choice be a dome camera and some RainX?
     

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  2. mat200

    mat200 IPCT Contributor

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    Hi Weather,

    I placed a Dahua OEM 2MP mini-dome wedge on the side of my front door at about 5 feet high and it works very well, I do have a porch to provide some cover from any rain.

    I recommend searching for that model and seeing what others have done with it by their front door.

    You can also look at the Dahua OEM starlight turret model - in particular IPC-HDW42xx in either a 2.8mm lens or a 3.6mm lens.
     
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  3. looney2ns

    looney2ns IPCT Contributor

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    Click on "Wiki" at top of this page and read the Cliff Notes.

    I would mount a turret similar to this setup, on the right side of your door, as your facing it, under the coach light. Use a 2.8mm lens.
    Such as: https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/productDetail/3721
    You will then get most of your porch and approach. Always test cam locations before mounting, with a 2x4, 5 gal bucket, and rocks.
    Garage cam mount..jpg

    Then you will need another camera with a longer lens to watch your neighbors vehicles.
    Depending on how much he wants to see, This cam cam be zoomed in may do the trick.
    Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE

    Or if he actually wants to ID a perp, then you may need something like this:
    IPC-HFW5231E-Z5 | Dahua Technology

    Or this:
    https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/productDetail/12371
     
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  4. Weather_Junkie

    Weather_Junkie Young grasshopper

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    How are all those powered? I don't see a POE option for any of those. As you can see, I don't currently have an AC junction box in the brick wall other than the light fixtures but, I planned on getting my electrician out to run ethernet down the wall into the crawlspace so he can do both if necessary. I really like the look of the turret style and my wife would be cool with that verses a bullet camera sticking too far off the wall.
     
  5. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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    POE...its in the specs.
     
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  6. TonyR

    TonyR IPCT Contributor

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    AND those Tennessee spiders aren't as attracted to the turrets as they are the bullets....another plus in addition to being POE.
     
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  7. Weather_Junkie

    Weather_Junkie Young grasshopper

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    Need help with running POE from the crawlspace:

    Based on the photos I provided above, I'd like to mount the camera on narrow wall (camera right) somewhere between the front door and the corner of the wall. That area will allow me to cover walk-ups and the street. The wall with the larger window at the very edge of the photo is actually about 12 inches further back so no bueno there. I'm thinking the sweet spot for getting walk-up faces is the upper (camera right) corner of the door frame mounted on the brick but I'm not sure I can get ethernet there from the crawlspace.

    I went under there today to check out where I had access to drill up between the exterior and interior wall but there is only about 6-8 inches between the sill plate and the bottom of the sub floor and I don't think there is any way to get my drill and a bit up in there. Plus there's insulation to deal with too and I'm not even sure how to measure for the correct drill location to keep from hitting brick or my wood floors inside the house. Although I could find my way from doing this from the inside, my wife is against poking drywall holes in the foyer wall because I absolutely suck at drywall repair and she doesn't want a plastic plug cover as the final cover up option.

    I could make it a wifi connection by tapping into the wires the lights are connected to as there is are 3 switches inside the foyer on the left side but I really don't want to risk the inconsistencies of wifi signals outside my house.

    Any ideas?
     
  8. TonyR

    TonyR IPCT Contributor

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    What about above the side light glass, in the wood part? That could be more easily disguised inside and the cable run over into the sheetrock possibly.
    Can you furnish a picture of that corner FROM INSIDE and some of the immediately adjacent wall to its left, above side light, left of door (looking out) ?

    I understand all of this must meet or exceed WAF criteria, whatever the latest one is (for now). :facepalm:

    weather_junkie_071818_2.jpg
     
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  9. tangent

    tangent IPCT Contributor

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    Can you see any doorbell wiring from the crawlspace? Where's the doorbell transformer?
    Does the foyer have a high ceiling (ie. the window above the door)?

    If you mount to the brick, you'll need a junction box you wouldn't want to drill a hole big enough for the Ethernet cable.

    They make special right angle drills and drill adapters.

    A picture or two from the crawlspace and inside the front door could help.
     
  10. Weather_Junkie

    Weather_Junkie Young grasshopper

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    Alright, so here are some additional photos you guys can look over. The upper right corner is where I'd like it but I'm worried that it'll be tough routing the ethernet cable behind the brick and then down into the cavity between the outer plywood and the interior drywall. From the crawlspace, the sill runs across the main part of the house which I guess is normal but I expected a section of it to extend outward where the front porch brick wall is. I was wrong. I may have to punt and let her get the Ring doorbell again and then I'll put one of my higher-end cameras up under the eve at the top right edge of the house where the flood lights are.

    Oh and the doorbell low voltage wiring probably runs through the walls on the first floor because I'e never seen wiring like that in the crawlspace. The doorbell box is mid 90s mechanical one and is right above the pantry in our kitchen.
     

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    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
  11. looney2ns

    looney2ns IPCT Contributor

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    Hiring someone that does this for a living IE: certified low voltage electrician, wouldn't take him but probably an hour or so to run an Ethernet cable. Hire someone to fix the drywall if a hole is needed.

    in the crawl, Typically if you drill about an inch or less in from the band board, you will come up inside the wall. 3/8" spade bit would do well.
    You can rent a right angle drill if you think you need it, but I think you can do it with a standard drill.

    Another option would be to remove the trim piece on the left side of the door, then run the Ethernet cable in the space between the frame of the door, and outside, you would need a junction box on the ourside. Then drill a hole just big enough to pass the the cable at the floor. Replace trim piece. If your are careful removing the molding, you will cause very little if any damage that will need repaired.

    Other option would be to mount a fake bird house or some other decoration with a camera in it, on the right side of the door on the porch, then run the cable from it to the crawl.

    There is almost always a way to get a cable to where you need it.
     
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  12. Weather_Junkie

    Weather_Junkie Young grasshopper

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    I love the trim idea. I'll go home and check that out. Thanks!
     
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  13. mat200

    mat200 IPCT Contributor

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    Hi @Weather_Junkie nice place.

    Does the door bell wire go up ( into the wall ) from the crawl space?

    btw - I use a flex bit for a lot of the drilling and associated cabling pulls I did in spaces like that.
    ( example Milwaukee 1/2 in. x 72 in. Cable Bit-48-13-8350 - The Home Depot )

    note - also need a "L" shaped tool to guide the bit.
    ( example of a kit Klein Tools 3-Piece Flexible Drill Bit Kit-53721 - The Home Depot )

    Indeed maybe useful to just hire someone to help once you have a good idea of what you wish to accomplish.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
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  14. TonyR

    TonyR IPCT Contributor

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    If that doesn't pan out, consider that some new, 'fake' trim (moulding) could be run INSIDE also to hide the cable, if the cam was mounted above the sidelight as pictured in post #8, above.
     
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  15. Weather_Junkie

    Weather_Junkie Young grasshopper

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    I've been under there many times and have never seen low voltage wires running across anywhere. The doorbell box is mounted just on the other side of foyer where I stood to take the picture and the old type telephone wire they used outside at the button seems to go up into the mortar.
     
  16. Weather_Junkie

    Weather_Junkie Young grasshopper

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    Thanks to you, I think I found a fairly easy way to make this work. I can mount the camera where you suggested, but instead of regular cat6 cable, I'll use the flat type so that on the inside, as I run it down to the floor, it'll pretty much blend right into the white trim of the window/door frame especially when the blinds are down. Then I'll remove the baseboard and quarter round and run the cable behind it. Before I put them back, I'll chip out a small section of the baseboard and quarter round so they don't pinch the cable. Hopefully I can drill a hole in the floor where the baseboard/quarter round covers, and I should come out through the sub floor in the crawl space. Hopefully I'll have luck on my side and not drill through a joist.

    Adding a crude diagram with red lines representing flat white cat6 cable.
     

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  17. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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    Note that flat cable is made with thinner wire. may be issues with poe on longer runs. 32awg vs 24/23...
     
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  18. TonyR

    TonyR IPCT Contributor

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    Glad I could help. But rather than using that flat cable, have you considered standard, all copper CAT-6 and use this Wiremold cover? It holds 1 cable and is paintable.

    wiremold_c110.jpg


    The 2800 series is 5 ft. in a single piece and is 1/2" tall, has corners, etc. should hold a single CAT-6, here.

    Cut with a hacksaw, paint, etc. Very easy to work with. Comes with double-sided foam tape, too.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
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  19. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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    Id get a pro to punch the cable out through the brick. Nice and neat.
     
  20. Weather_Junkie

    Weather_Junkie Young grasshopper

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    I probably have about a 25-35ft run from the camera to the router in the kitchen. Maybe TonyR's suggestion is better and I have those cable hiders for my home stereo rear speakers.
     
  21. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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    wont look nearly as good...
     
  22. Weather_Junkie

    Weather_Junkie Young grasshopper

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    Now I think I have to brick-mount it because the Dahua dome model I want is 6.25 inches in circumference and that wood corner area between the window and brick is only 4.xx inches. Grrrr.
     
  23. Weather_Junkie

    Weather_Junkie Young grasshopper

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    Is that distance too long for flat type cable?
     
  24. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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    should be ok...only one way to find out...you dont have to mount it to a single brick..
     
  25. Weather_Junkie

    Weather_Junkie Young grasshopper

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    I'm gonna use a wall mount bracket so it will fit perfectly over that window area.
     
  26. Weather_Junkie

    Weather_Junkie Young grasshopper

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    Well you were right about thin. Holy cow! It wasn't about signal degradation in my case because I was never able to connect the damn thing. See I had to cut one end off the flat cable (big mistake) to get it though the hole in the floor and when I tried to terminate it, it was im...freakin...possible to separate the twisted pairs as the wires were as thin as the thinning hairs on my head. Also trying to get the wires separated from the flat jacket material was just as infuriating. So, ordered regular cat6 and just re-drilled the holes to 5/8s so I can run the wire from the camera to the POE switch without having to terminate anything. I know how to do it with normal cat but just don't want to mess with it now.
     
  27. TonyR

    TonyR IPCT Contributor

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    Yeah, when it comes to flat cable, only the flat, modular 4 conductor phone lines (ring and tip, 1 pair) should be allowed to be sold and that for analog voice frequency only.

    FYI ==>> how to make good CAT6 cables all the time
     
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  28. tangent

    tangent IPCT Contributor

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    Cat 5e is fine too and is typically a little thinner than Cat 6 if it helps.
     
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