Who uses Surge Suppressor?

Discussion in 'Accessories' started by mcdivan96, Nov 18, 2016.

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  1. mcdivan96

    mcdivan96 Young grasshopper

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    Coming from a broadcast and Wisp background, surge protection is huge to me, what about yall? I use surge protectors at all cameras and radios outdoors, and always use shielded cable, inside and out.
     
  2. Kawboy12R

    Kawboy12R Getting comfortable

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    The guilty silence will tell you the numbers on who is saying "I know I probably should but...."
     
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  3. Mike

    Mike Staff Member

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    I have one on 1 of my cameras
     
  4. looney2ns

    looney2ns Getting comfortable

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    I will be doing this with my new IP based system.
    What is the proper way to surge protect IP cams?
    Use STP, and the drain wire grounded at one end?
    Use STP plus surge protectors?

    We have numerous nasty lightning storms per year, and I've had other electronics fried from EMI.
     
  5. mcdivan96

    mcdivan96 Young grasshopper

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    @looney2ns Yes, the best method is STP with shielded connectors. Personally I tie the drain wire to the ground on the surge suppressors . Lcom makes many surge suppressor, you'll pay for them but it's worth it. Grounding is as much art as it is a science. If using ground wire, use flat copper or braided copper(i use tinned braided ) in the rack. surges see a round cable as a resistor (electricity travels on the outer edge, so the more circular mills the better= flat copper) and will travel else where. any other questions and I would be happy to help! Remember do it proper, do it copper
     
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  6. Jmtyra

    Jmtyra Young grasshopper

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    I use surge protection on my AC side for the branch circuit using a SurgeX SX15NE box. However, I don't have anything on the DC (PoE) side "yet". I do have a dedicated, isolated bare copper run to ground that is waiting to be used for that very purpose, though! :D

    Unfortunately none of the CAT5e drops that I ran are STP, they are all UTP, however they are all ran internally through the attic and the cameras (pending) will be placed under the soffit. I know, I know, that's wishful thinking but I can't easily change it now. I do have an RJ45-to-RJ45 surge device (don't remember the brand/etc) that just needs a ground that I could integrate into the setup.

    I would still be worried about the 'breaking point' of any surge solution. Camera -> PoE Switch -> [Rest of network] -> [Rest of my equipment] so at what point do I isolate the cameras from everything else from a surge perspective? <dramatic voice> is it hopeless?! </dramatic voice>

    OK, so my n00b colors are now showing but I'm still at the tinkering/learning stage and don't consider myself to be a professional at this. Any advice/feedback is appreciated. :)
     
  7. mcdivan96

    mcdivan96 Young grasshopper

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    @Jmtyra not 100% sure what you are asking but if you are asking were to physically put the protector, put it as close to the cameras as possible. then run a short jumper from the surge protector to the camera.
     
  8. Jmtyra

    Jmtyra Young grasshopper

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    Sorry, guess that [post of mine] was more of a rant/ramble than a question. :eek:

    Essentially, yes, where I could put the surge protector. However, without having STP cable I'm limited on my options, correct?
     
  9. mcdivan96

    mcdivan96 Young grasshopper

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    @Jmtyra , even with Utp, surge supressprs will still help. good ones like l-coms will provide protection on the power pairs and data pairs. Auctually, cambium has one that had resistors in it. no ground needed, (you can set it to use ground if you want) the resistor circuts supress the surge, and if it takes a hard enough hit, it blows the resistors, not the cameras. they are my perferred prtector.
     
  10. Jmtyra

    Jmtyra Young grasshopper

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  11. Jmtyra

    Jmtyra Young grasshopper

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    Oh -- and dumb question, but do these devices have a shelf life? My order was from ~7 years ago and it's just been collecting dust. I assume it's still good to go?
     
  12. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    they are good until they stop working; its all solid state electronics.. should be working like new on the day it finally does its job.

    here's some other options:
    Amazon.com: Ethernet Surge Protector -Outdoor- for PoE+ Gigabit 1000Mbs - LAN Network Thunder Lighting Surge Protection Suppressor/Arrester - TP303 ...: Computers & Accessories
    Amazon.com: Ubiquiti Networks ETH-SP Poe External Surge Suppressor: Home Audio & Theater

    best to install these at the point of entry into the house and then attached to grounding rod directly.. but with a bunch of cameras this becomes combersome, I have one on my external WiFi antenna thats up high on my chimney but none on any cameras.

    If you use EMT Conduit and metal cased housings you can ground the conduit and get pretty damn good EMI protection; but its all a crap shoot.. have an adequate insurance policy.

    In situations where property has history or high likelihood of strikes, such as motorized gateways, towers, trees, etc your better off running fiber optics and using media converters for those cams..

    Vehicles/Planes can take direct hits w/out damage because power is onboard and everything has a chassis ground, so no electronics have an alternate path to ground.. thats the strategy to take in a situation where lighting is inevitable.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2016
  13. Jmtyra

    Jmtyra Young grasshopper

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    I like the price point of the Ubiquiti version, $13 is cheap enough to put on every camera. :) Plus I run Ubiquiti at home so I'm slightly biased.

    Was looking at their diagram and probably won't put one at the camera end, though. Instead just at the PoE switch side.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    if you keep your NVR in a basement/laundry room you could probably bond all those to a copper water pipe and not have to dump it through the house wiring.. thats kinda the point of grounding it outside, in the ground..

    ubiquiti wifi chassis are plastic, so I can see why they suggest one on the mast to bond the other end to the structure.. if both ends of cable have same ground potential, its less likely to travel down the thin copper ethernet cable.. come to think of it most cameras do not have grounded ethernet plugs either so its not useless on the camera side if your install calls for added protection.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2016
  15. Jmtyra

    Jmtyra Young grasshopper

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    OH, nooooo....definitely not using the house wiring. I have an isolated ground ran specifically for this purpose.
     
  16. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    you dont want it isolated, needs to be connected to the house ground somehow so the potential all remains the same.. for example if your isolated ground had less potential than the house say from a corroded or broken wire at your service box then any kinda ground faults in the house may perfer to go through your networking equipment since they have a better path.

    when connecting remote buildings with there own service boxes with a copper ethernet run you must be very careful not to bond the two buildings via your low voltage wires.. thats why we suggest running fiber out to big industrial style buildings/garages even if the distances or bandwidth dont require fiber.. they can remain electronically isolated and maintain data connectivity.
     
  17. Jmtyra

    Jmtyra Young grasshopper

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    I didn't think about that aspect. Hmmm. Would that still apply if I'm only using the isolated ground for the DC/PoE side? Thinking out loud here...would that be because the power supply for the PoE is using the house ground and that's where the risk is? Guess I'm not picturing how those two grounds would be connected (is the jump point the PoE switch?). Sorry to be electrical stupid here, I only know the basics, don't lick the black wires, lol. ;)
     
  18. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    try not to lick any wires heh..

    it could go through your switch, or poe supplies if your using a midspan or external bricks.. grounds are always bonded, so the ground coming from power is the same ground used in network signaling.

    electrical code says all grounds must be bonded for saftey
     
  19. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    to put it in a car analogy; my 1975 VW bus when the engine to chassis ground strap fails the next connecting point is the throttle cable.. which cant handle the current of the starter and burns up in short order leaving you with a broken throttle cable thats the entire length of the vehidle.. so it has a couple engine to chassis straps now for redundancy.
     
  20. Jmtyra

    Jmtyra Young grasshopper

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    OK, this makes sense now. Had to sleep on it haha. Thank you!!
     
  21. Jmtyra

    Jmtyra Young grasshopper

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    In case any fellow wire lickers see this thread, more info is available here:
    http://www.necconnect.org/grounding-bonding/

    Another article worth reading:
    http://ecmweb.com/code-basics/grounding-and-bonding-part-1-3
    [​IMG]
     
  22. looney2ns

    looney2ns Getting comfortable

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    Great discussion. My house is plumbed with CPVC pipe. So no ground available there.
    If I use STP to wire the cameras, is it acceptable or wise to run a #8 copper wire from the wiring closet out to the service entrance ground. Then use the #8 in the wiring closet to ground the drain wires and surge protectors and other equipment to.

    I don't lick wires, I lick my fingers then grab the wires. ;)
     
  23. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    that would be completely acceptable @looney2ns

    personally I hammered a grounding rod into all 3 of my window wells on 3 sides of my house, those are then bonded to the copper water pipe in my basement.. the window well on the back of the house is just a few feet away from the service entry ground so those are bonded directly together..

    my server cabinets have a copper bus bar running across the top back rails and everything has a chassis ground directly to that bus bar.. that bus bar is then strapped to the copper water pipe running right above it..

    in the window outside my server room I have a pice of angle iron bolted directly onto the grounding rod and that holds lightning arrestors for my HAM radio antennas and my external WiFi access point right before they go through the basement window and into my server room (I replaced the glass window w/white painted plexiglass that I can drill holes through)

    All my external EMT conduit runs are bonded to the nearest grounding rod.. This is overkill for most people; but I am a HAM and know you cant overkill lightning protection.. well not until your copper bill exceeds your equipment bill.
     
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  24. Kawboy12R

    Kawboy12R Getting comfortable

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    You ever consider the nightmare of having to move and redo a new house?
     
  25. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    I have no intentions of moving before retirement; My house is the best investment I've made.. I got a hell of a deal on it and could walk away from it today with >100% profit.

    if I sell now and buy another house in the same market I'll lose nearly all of that gain; property is hot in the Denver metro.. so until the day I can move to an island in the south pacific.. I'll be holding onto this property and letting it gain more value while I enjoy living here... when the mortgage is paid off I'll sell and have at least a quater mil in today's money.. probably much more, its beat my 401k plan by a large margin and is less volatile than other markets.. even in the worst of times I cant see how any house in the neighborhood would sell for anything close to what I bought for.. I paid $150k and comparable houses in my neighborhood have not sold for less than $300k before or since my purchase.. I was under contract within an hour of this property being put up on the market in March 2009 in the midst of the housing crisis.

    but yeah; it would be a huge pita for me to relocate.. but the biggest motivation for me to become a home owner was I was sick and tired of moving every couple years.. I hate moving and cant see me wanting to do it again unless I am leaving the Denver metro for good.. and then might just rent this out, perhaps to one of my own kids.