Why is HDW5231R-Z more than twice the price of HDBW4431R-ZS?

sumguy

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I see that the ebay price (in CAD) for the HDBW4431R-ZS (4 MP) is about $120, while the HDW5231R-Z (2 MP) is $270. Why would a 2 MP camera be more expensive than a 4 MP? Both are motorized varifocal, the 4431 has SD slot (I don't think the 5231 does). The 4431 is dome (this is a drawback, I know). But the price difference seems backwards. A completely separate issue is, the way I see it, motorized varifocal is a waste unless the camera is PZT.
 

nayr

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Because you wont find the HDBW4431R-ZS on any of Dahua's websites except its Mandarin language one.. its not a native english camera; its been hacked to english and is not firmware updatable.. Chinese market cameras are typically made of plastic instead of meta, have cheaper components, and weaker firmware.. specs are usually made bullshit up by seller because no english specs are provided by dahua and they dont want to translate correctly.

Also the 5231 is a Starlight model and several times better than the 4MP.. 4MP is not better than 2MP, MegaPixels dont mean shit.. that 4MP Sensor is a dime a dozen made in China.. the 2MP Sensor is made by Sony in Japan and is several orders of magnitude more sensitive.

The international model of that camera is the: IPC-HDBW5421E-Z, go check out its price.. then double that price for the US model.
 
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hmjgriffon

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I see that the ebay price (in CAD) for the HDBW4431R-ZS (4 MP) is about $120, while the HDW5231R-Z (2 MP) is $270. Why would a 2 MP camera be more expensive than a 4 MP? Both are motorized varifocal, the 4431 has SD slot (I don't think the 5231 does). The 4431 is dome (this is a drawback, I know). But the price difference seems backwards. A completely separate issue is, the way I see it, motorized varifocal is a waste unless the camera is PZT.
Have you ever tried to adjust a manual focus security camera? it's a huge pain in the ass, trust me, unless you have done it and are fine with it then carry on.
 

sumguy

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I see one US vendor selling the HDBW5421E-Z (4MP) for $394 CAD and one Hong Kong vendor selling it for $320. That's nuts. I've bought a few HDW4431C-A (4MP) for around $100 (CAD) each and the images look great to me. Maybe the Sony sensor is better, but one or two extra IR lights aught to boost the 4431 night vision short-comings. And is the firmware _really_ any different between the US/Intl vs mainland China models?

> Have you ever tried to adjust a manual focus security camera?

I thought that the motorized varifocal was a zoom adjustment - not a focus adjustment. (?)
 

hmjgriffon

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I see one US vendor selling the HDBW5421E-Z (4MP) for $394 CAD and one Hong Kong vendor selling it for $320. That's nuts. I've bought a few HDW4431C-A (4MP) for around $100 (CAD) each and the images look great to me. Maybe the Sony sensor is better, but one or two extra IR lights aught to boost the 4431 night vision short-comings. And is the firmware _really_ any different between the US/Intl vs mainland China models?

> Have you ever tried to adjust a manual focus security camera?

I thought that the motorized varifocal was a zoom adjustment - not a focus adjustment. (?)
its motorized zoom and auto or manual focus.
 

hmjgriffon

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I see one US vendor selling the HDBW5421E-Z (4MP) for $394 CAD and one Hong Kong vendor selling it for $320. That's nuts. I've bought a few HDW4431C-A (4MP) for around $100 (CAD) each and the images look great to me. Maybe the Sony sensor is better, but one or two extra IR lights aught to boost the 4431 night vision short-comings. And is the firmware _really_ any different between the US/Intl vs mainland China models?

> Have you ever tried to adjust a manual focus security camera?

I thought that the motorized varifocal was a zoom adjustment - not a focus adjustment. (?)
Manual zoom is easy, manual focus is a huge pain, once you go auto focus, you'll never go back lol.
 

nayr

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I see one US vendor selling the HDBW5421E-Z (4MP) for $394 CAD and one Hong Kong vendor selling it for $320. That's nuts. I've bought a few HDW4431C-A (4MP) for around $100 (CAD) each and the images look great to me. Maybe the Sony sensor is better, but one or two extra IR lights aught to boost the 4431 night vision short-comings. And is the firmware _really_ any different between the US/Intl vs mainland China models?

> Have you ever tried to adjust a manual focus security camera?

I thought that the motorized varifocal was a zoom adjustment - not a focus adjustment. (?)
A few IR lights will not make up for the 4431's shortcomings, I have several of those Chinese Market 4MP Cameras I just installed this last summer.. along with 10W adjustable focus IR Cannons to try to make up for its shortcomings.. and they are all getting ripped down and replaced with the 2MP Starlights ASAP.. mebe I'll use em to watch the cat litter box now.. If I use the IR cannons on the Starlights I can run em at several times the performance (higher shutter, lower gain) than just barely getting the 4MP's to get an ID at night.
 

sumguy

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> its motorized zoom and auto or manual focus.

So the varifocal cameras have 2 motors? One for zoom, the other for focus? I haven't seen a need to adjust the focus on the fixed-focal-length 4431's I have (not that there's a way to actually adjust the focus on them that I can see).
 

hmjgriffon

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A few IR lights will not make up for the 4431's shortcomings, I have several of those Chinese Market 4MP Cameras I just installed this last summer.. along with 10W adjustable focus IR Cannons to try to make up for its shortcomings.. and they are all getting ripped down and replaced with the 2MP Starlights ASAP.. mebe I'll use em to watch the cat litter box now.. If I use the IR cannons on the Starlights I can run em at several times the performance (higher shutter, lower gain) than just barely getting the 4MP's to get an ID at night.
really sucks you just put them in and now you are getting all new ones lol.
 

nayr

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the fixed cameras have lenses glued to a fixed focus at factory..

actually they have 3 motors, one for zoom, one for focus, and one for iris.. ontop of the one that was already there for the IR Cut filter.
 

hmjgriffon

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> its motorized zoom and auto or manual focus.

So the varifocal cameras have 2 motors? One for zoom, the other for focus? I haven't seen a need to adjust the focus on the fixed-focal-length 4431's I have (not that there's a way to actually adjust the focus on them that I can see).
The HDW5231R-Z has motorized zoom and focus, I dunno anything about the 4431 but if it is fixed focus I doubt it has motorized anything. At $170 a camera there's really no reason to buy fixed focal length cameras at this point. You can use these in different places and just tweak the view.
 

sumguy

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The 4431's with 3.6mm lens is great for front-door security, even driveway security. Do you really need to ID people 50 yards from the camera?

(The ultimate way to get an ID on people/thieves/vandals is to get the IMEI/MEID number from the cell phone that they're almost certain to be carrying, but nobody seems to be making a box that will do that yet.)
 

nayr

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the specs are crap compared to the 2MP Starlight Varifocal Turret

Lens parameter focal length 2.8 mm ~ 12 mm Electric Zoom Lens
Lens interface M12
Lens aperture F2.0/F2.0/F2.0
IRIS Mode fixed
Zoom type Fixed focus
fixed focus, fixed iris, twice as small of aperture..
 

nayr

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The 4431's with 3.6mm lens is great for front-door security, even driveway security. Do you really need to ID people 50 yards from the camera?

(The ultimate way to get an ID on people/thieves/vandals is to get the IMEI/MEID number from the cell phone that they're almost certain to be carrying, but nobody seems to be making a box that will do that yet.)
3.6mm is horrible on a driveway, you need 6-8mm for ID.. a 12mm can only ID people 35ft away, your greately over estimating the capabilities of your lenses..

http://ipvm.com/calcualtor <-- Keep PPF well over 100 for ID

but what do I know..
 

hmjgriffon

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The 4431's with 3.6mm lens is great for front-door security, even driveway security. Do you really need to ID people 50 yards from the camera?

(The ultimate way to get an ID on people/thieves/vandals is to get the IMEI/MEID number from the cell phone that they're almost certain to be carrying, but nobody seems to be making a box that will do that yet.)
I'm not sure what sort of "box" would be able to get that info off their phone unless you can pull it out of the air from packets but I doubt that information is transmitted except maybe when it connects to the tower? Also, getting an ID of someone farther from the camera is great for a number of reasons.

Under an eave you'll get a better angle to get their face and not their head.

The farther away the camera is, the less likely they are to see it or even know it is there.

They may very likely have to go past multiple other cameras to get to it, and or fences etc, and it could be harder to get at.
 

tangent

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I can understand not wanting to spend $170 per camera, but these cameras are so much better than the competition that it's worth it. If $170 / cam is over budget reduce the number of cams, sure you may not cover absolutely everything but when you get somebody on cam you'll be able to nail them.

If you must buy one of the HDW5231R-Z's and one of another model, once you get you hands on them you'll be trying to sell the other cam on ebay.
 
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hmjgriffon

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I can understand not wanting to spend $170 per camera, but these cameras are so much better than the competition that it's worth it. If $170 / cam is over budget reduce the number of cams, sure you may not cover absolutely everything but when you get somebody on cam you'll be able to nail them.

If you must buy one of the HDW5231R-Z's and one of another model, once you get you hand on them you'll be trying to sell the other cam on ebay.
Yep, I bought one to try out, put it side by side with a hikvision 3mp and it blew it out of the water, I didn't try them during the day because the sun was already going down by the time I got everything set up, in perfect lighting they might be similar but anything else the hik goes downhill fast lol. I agree, I'd rather have less good cameras than a bunch of crappy ones, what good does it do you if all of the cameras capture you getting robbed but the image sucks so bad you can't tell anything about them lol. like those kits of analog cameras from home depot.
 
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