89+ Devices on a single Wi-Fi router and all Cameras Lagging - how to fix?

[Nick4978]

I have about 89 wireless devices connected to my TP-Link AX6000 Wi-Fi router which is connected to a Sonicwall TZ500 firewall then out to my AT&T Gigabit modem.

Among the 89 wireless devices are several such as video doorbells, surveillance cameras - ReoLink E1 Pro's, EZVIZ cameras, Amcrest cameras and a couple of no-name cameras all using both bands (2.4G and 5G) - and then I have a dedicated wired computer that I use as my Blue Iris server with all of them streaming to that as well as their own cloud and native apps.

What should I do to try to prevent the constant lagging and dropping of the cameras randomly? I've tried utilizing an ASUS MESH system with as many as 4 ASUS routers and still had the same problem. I've tried using extenders to see if it was a signal issue, I've tried specifying a specific channel and channel width after finding out what the best ones were using WiFi Analytics but nothing I've done seem to be working. When I look at the cameras connected to the router, they all typically have all bars. Sometimes they might drop 1 bar, but usually they have all bars so it doesn't appear to be a signal strength problem. They all stream of course, and I also have other devices that are stream such as my AT&T DirecTV Stream boxes, computers, tablets, phones, etc. I also run a variety of additional smart-home devices which don't continuously stream, but are still utilizing some bandwidth.

The only thing that I could think of is perhaps the bottleneck is the router itself, or perhaps the firewall. They all support wired GB connectivity and are all using it, but I know that each device has it's own CPU, caching and RAM limitations. I read that using WiFi 5, you're limited to 8 streams but I'm not sure what exactly that means because the routers typically claim to theoretically support up to 250 devices or so and I know I have at least 24 continuous video streaming devices working 24/7. Could the problem be that the router's hardware itself (even in a mesh configuration) just isn't powerful enough? If so, what could I do to try to offload some of the work of that router? Configure some AP's? Would that still have to utilize the hardware of the router? If so, would it be the same as just connecting them all to the same router?

I'm looking for an idea of how I can configure this topology so that the cameras, smart devices, video doorbells, etc. don't lag and drop/disconnect as much but are also all on the same network so that they can all be accessed and work together without having multiple routers with their own subnets and I have to keep jumping back and forth to that specific SSID/network in order to configure/see/use the devices on that particular one.

Thanks for any suggestions!

 

[mat200]

I have about 89 wireless devices connected to my TP-Link AX6000 Wi-Fi router which is connected to a Sonicwall TZ500 firewall then out to my AT&T Gigabit modem.

Among the 89 wireless devices are several such as video doorbells, surveillance cameras - ReoLink E1 Pro's, EZVIZ cameras, Amcrest cameras and a couple of no-name cameras all using both bands (2.4G and 5G) - and then I have a dedicated wired computer that I use as my Blue Iris server with all of them streaming to that as well as their own cloud and native apps.

What should I do to try to prevent the constant lagging and dropping of the cameras randomly? I've tried utilizing an ASUS MESH system with as many as 4 ASUS routers and still had the same problem. I've tried using extenders to see if it was a signal issue, I've tried specifying a specific channel and channel width after finding out what the best ones were using WiFi Analytics but nothing I've done seem to be working. When I look at the cameras connected to the router, they all typically have all bars. Sometimes they might drop 1 bar, but usually they have all bars so it doesn't appear to be a signal strength problem. They all stream of course, and I also have other devices that are stream such as my AT&T DirecTV Stream boxes, computers, tablets, phones, etc. I also run a variety of additional smart-home devices which don't continuously stream, but are still utilizing some bandwidth.

The only thing that I could think of is perhaps the bottleneck is the router itself, or perhaps the firewall. They all support wired GB connectivity and are all using it, but I know that each device has it's own CPU, caching and RAM limitations. I read that using WiFi 5, you're limited to 8 streams but I'm not sure what exactly that means because the routers typically claim to theoretically support up to 250 devices or so and I know I have at least 24 continuous video streaming devices working 24/7. Could the problem be that the router's hardware itself (even in a mesh configuration) just isn't powerful enough? If so, what could I do to try to offload some of the work of that router? Configure some AP's? Would that still have to utilize the hardware of the router? If so, would it be the same as just connecting them all to the same router?

I'm looking for an idea of how I can configure this topology so that the cameras, smart devices, video doorbells, etc. don't lag and drop/disconnect as much but are also all on the same network so that they can all be accessed and work together without having multiple routers with their own subnets and I have to keep jumping back and forth to that specific SSID/network in order to configure/see/use the devices on that particular one.

Thanks for any suggestions!

Welcome nick

Hint : go wired for both data and power for security cameras.

 

[wittaj]

Wifi and cameras do not go together.

There are always ways if you don't want to run an ethernet cable.

You need power anyway, so go with a powerline adapter to run the date over your electric lines or use a nano-station.

Maybe you are fine now one day with wifi cams, but one day something will happen. A new device, neighbors microwave, etc.

Cameras connected to Wifi routers (whether wifi or not) are problematic for surveillance cameras because they are always streaming and passing data. And the data demands go up with motion and then you lose signal. A lost packet and it has to resend. It can bring the whole network down if trying to send cameras through a wifi router. At the very least it can slow down your entire system.

Unlike Netflix and other streaming services that buffer a movie, these cameras do not buffer up part of the video, so drop outs are frequent, especially once you start adding distance. You would be amazed how much streaming services buffer - don't believe me, start watching something and unplug your router and watch how much longer you can watch NetFlix before it freezes - mine goes 45 seconds. Now do the same with a camera connected to a router and it is fairly instantaneous (within the latency of the stream itself)...

The same issue applies even with the hard-wired cameras trying to send all this non-buffer video stream through a router. Most consumer grade wifi routers are not designed to pass the constant video stream data of cameras, and since they do not buffer, you get these issues. The consumer routers are just not designed for this kind of traffic, even a GB speed router.

As long as the cameras are on the same network as the rest of your stuff, there will problems. You can't add enough APs still connected to the system to resolve it.

So the more cameras you add, the bigger the potential for issues.

Many people unfortunately think wifi cameras are the answer and they are not. People will say what about Ring and Nest - well that is another whole host of issues that we will not discuss here LOL, but they are not streaming 24/7, only when you pull up the app. And then we see all the people come here after that system failed them because their wifi couldn't keep up when the perp came by. For streaming 24/7 to something like an NVR or Blue Iris, forget about it if you want reliability.


This was a great test that SouthernYankee tried and posted about it here:

I did a WIFI test a while back with multiple 2MP cameras each camera was set to VBR, 15 FPS, 15 Iframe, 3072kbs, h.264. Using a WIFI analyzer I selected the least busy channel (1,6,11) on the 2.4 GHZ band and set up a separate access point. With 3 cameras in direct line of sight of the AP about 25 feet away I was able to maintain a reasonable stable network with only intermittent signal drops from the cameras. Added a 4th camera and the network became totally unstable. Also add a lot of motion to the 3 cameras caused some more network instability. More data more instability.
The cameras are nearly continuously transmitting. So any lost packet causes a retry, which cause more traffic, which causes more lost packets.
WIFI does not have a flow control, or a token to transmit. So your devices transmit any time they want, more devices more collisions.
As a side note, it is very easy to jam a WIFI network. WIFI is fine for watching the bird feed but not for home surveillance and security.
The problem is like standing in a room, with multiple people talking to you at the same time about different subjects. You need to answer each person or they repeat the question.

Test do not guess.

For a 802.11G 2.4 GHZ WIFI network the Theoretical Speed is 54Mbps (6.7MBs) real word speed is nearer to 10-29Mbps (1.25-3.6 MBs) for a single channel


And @TonyR recommends this (which is the preferred way IF you want to do wifi)

The only way I'd have wireless cams is the way I have them now: a dedicated 802.11n, 2.4GHz Access Point for 3 cams, nothing else uses that AP. Its assigned channel is at the max separation from another 2.4GHz channel in the house. There is no other house near me for about 300 yards and we're separated by dense foliage and trees.

Those 3 cams are indoor, non-critical pet cams (Amcrest IP2M-841's) streaming to Blue Iris and are adequately reliable for their jobs. They take their turns losing signal/reconnecting usually about every 12 hours or so for about 20 seconds which I would not tolerate for an outdoor surveillance cam pointed at my house and/or property.

But for me, this works in my situation: dedicated AP, non-critical application and periodic, short-term video loss.... if any one of those 3 conditions can't be achieved or tolerated, then I also do not recommend using wireless cams.

 

[VorlonFrog]

That TP-AX600 router is no slouch, HOWEVER as @mat200 and @wittaj advised, running too many video cameras over wireless will load/congest it.

 

[Flintstone61]

89 devices on one wifi network will be slow....if you had a household with the usual suspects like 5-6 phones, and tables, and few tv's nd pc's youcould afford to run a few Wifi cams...but not a whole bunch....

 

[tangent]

I have about 89 wireless devices connected to my TP-Link AX6000 Wi-Fi router which is connected to a Sonicwall TZ500 firewall then out to my AT&T Gigabit modem.

Among the 89 wireless devices are several such as video doorbells, surveillance cameras - ReoLink E1 Pro's, EZVIZ cameras, Amcrest cameras and a couple of no-name cameras all using both bands (2.4G and 5G) - and then I have a dedicated wired computer that I use as my Blue Iris server with all of them streaming to that as well as their own cloud and native apps.

What should I do to try to prevent the constant lagging and dropping of the cameras randomly? I've tried utilizing an ASUS MESH system with as many as 4 ASUS routers...

If you still have both the ASUS mesh and AX6000 you could try running both, giving them different network names and putting only cameras on one of them.
Even then you're likely to run into issues.

Wifi is a shared medium (think token ring or old 90's ethernet HUB) where devices take turns, todays routers expand on this and may connect to a couple devices simultaneously. This really doesn't work great with real-time video, but works fine for streaming movies because the client can buffer. Your cameras can't see the future.
Modern / higher end routers do handle this better than lower end routers and how they handle it is a bit more complicated. Anything you can hardwire even if it's a PC or a TV lessens the load a little and every network has some slow devices (often printers or other iot devices) that are sometimes best relegated to a separate shitty network.

All of these are also cloud based cameras that depend on your upload speeds and are subject to the demands of other devices trying to upload. Your sonicwall could also be a bottleneck / source of jitter.

Nothing will beat hardwired cameras recording to a local device in your house, but you may be able to make your cameras work slightly better.

 

[Flintstone61]

+1^

 

[tangent]

I'm looking for an idea of how I can configure this topology so that the cameras, smart devices, video doorbells, etc. don't lag and drop/disconnect as much but are also all on the same network so that they can all be accessed and work together without having multiple routers with their own subnets and I have to keep jumping back and forth to that specific SSID/network in order to configure/see/use the devices on that particular one.

This is actually pretty simple, you just have to configure a router to function as an access point and hardwire it to the rest of your network.

If it doesn't have an AP mode, all you really have to do is turn off the DHCP server and use the LAN port to connect it to the router instead of the WAN port you can also turn off NAT and use the WAN port. If you don't assign it a static IP first, maintaining access to the access point's admin page can be difficult.

 

[samplenhold]

Unlike Netflix and other streaming services that buffer a movie, these cameras do not buffer up part of the video, so drop outs are frequent, especially once you start adding distance. You would be amazed how much streaming services buffer

^ This right there.

Nothing will beat hardwired cameras recording to a local device in your house

^ And this.

Cams should not go through a router. Cams must not have an avenue to the internet. Keep those cams on a separate subnet than everything else. Hardwire as much of them as possible. I have 22 cams on my BI machine and they are all on a separate subnet. Two of them are WIFI cams and do drop out multiple times a day, but they are dog watching type cams, so I don't care.

For being able to access the cams and BI machine from other PCs, use dual NICs. That is how I do it. My BI PC is on the second floor. My office PC is on the first floor in my office. Both PCs have dual NICs. One for the main subnet that has internet connection and access to all of the non-cam units, and the other NIC is on the subnet that only has the cameras on it. See below.