Surveillance for Dummies

M

mrvelous01

Getting the hang of it
Jan 29, 2015
120
30
Metro Detroit
I currently have a mix of 10 Hikvision, NSC (Nellys), Panasonic, and the hated Foscams, connected via IP, POE, and Wifi to my BlueIris installation watching the inside and outside of my home.

When I started out with cameras it was Dropcam. I eventually had 3 Dropcam HD's. I was part of the group beating on DC to develop an outdoor camera, got tired of waiting, and rigged my own. While I liked the simplicity of the Dropcam (Nest) product, $28/month was more than I really wanted to shell out every month and I sold them off.

Now here I am a few years later, tweaking my cameras daily for shadows, light issues, IR issues, nightvision issues, and it seems to never end. Kind of like buying an old car, I suppose. But it only cost me the price of the cameras, wire, software, and a desktop computer. Hmmm.

By a strange coincidence, 3 different people have recently approached me asking how to "put cameras in their houses". One is a Chef that just recently transitioned his home computer to a Mac. Another is a construction worker that rarely uses the computer. The third is an 80 year old retiree that just recently bought his first computer, a laptop. Their experience with computers and cameras is what you might say very limited and I get a lot of free dinners when helping them out. Their budgets for this type of thing is limited as well.

Therein lies the problem ... if its easy then it costs a lot. If it's cheap then its not easy.

So, if you had it all to do over or you were going to help one of these guys out on a "reasonable" budget, what solution would you tell them to buy with 2-3 cameras indoor and outdoor, no real desire to drill holes throughout their homes, a few days of recordings, and live video ability?

Thanks for your ideas.

Marv
 
I am happy to give advice to my neighbors; but none of them could possibly afford to pay me to actually install anything.. but it takes a couple hundred dollars an hour to get me to moonlight.

tweaking your cameras daily? are you using motion detection for alerts or something?

Just give em a basic hardware NVR and enough storage to record 24/7/365.. just use motion detection to flag the timeline, not for security alerts.. and it should work just fine. I dont tinker with my cameras at all on a day to day basis, infact I might review recorded footage just once a month... unless something shows up missing, or a neighbor asks me to check my recordings I dont have any time to dick w/it.
 
Most people don't really know what it costs for a decent security camera system. They also don't want to learn anything about cameras, not even the difference between IP and analog. A basic 4 camera IP system might be had for under $500 if you are frugal and know what you're doing, or it can run around $1000 if you get an off the shelf setup. Installation from a pro will probably cost more than the system. That's why people start out with a Foscam wireless camera, it's cheap and easy.

The easiest way for them to get into it is to get a boxed system from a dealer. There are a few points I would tell them to look for. First, of course, is that they are IP cameras. Then that it's ONVIF, and that the NVR has twice as many channels as cameras. That way they can add cameras if they want.

It's all about how much they want to spend, vs how much work they (you) want to do. They might also be ok with one Dropcam.
 
A couple months ago my brother's friend/part-time-employer wanted a small camera system and I helped with that. Got them three 4MP dahuas, a $50 PoE switch, and a little $150 i3 ivy bridge box and Blue Iris. They put off buying the cameras until the last minute so they cost $105 each from an amazon fulfilled seller instead of $70 each from aliexpress. Between the previously mentioned hardware, cabling, and cheap labor it cost them about $755 when it was all said and done.
 
I agree with nayr about the installation part. I'm helping co workers delve into this new area and im still learning all the basic ins and outs that go with the networking and setup so i'm not too comfortable providing a ton of advice for their entire system.

Problem is, trying to be nice can cause you alot of headaches down the road if they start to dabble with settings and mess something up and are calling on you to fix it. At least with my own stuff i know i can come on here and post a question or two and get help. It sounds like they might not be able to do that based on their limited computer knowledge and will be calling on you often.

That being said if you still wanna be helpful, i'd go two or three 4mm HikVis turrets at the main entrances. Going strictly HikVis because thats what I have experience with. The quality is decent for now however Dahua have impressed me with what people have shared on here so they could be an option to consider as they might be cheaper depending on the source.

A 4 port PoE switch with the 5th port connecting to the network.

For connection, they are prob gonna have to drill a little so i'd buy a spool of 250' of Cat5e cable from Monoprice and obviously the tools needed to terminate if you already have them.

As far as an NVR, for the Chef i'd go with a nice i5 Optiplex with a 1 TB WD Purple HDD and a small SSD drive for Windows 10 Pro and Blue Iris to run it all. Decent prices if you browse around on eBay and are patient. I read somewhere that Windows 10 is still free to download and you can buy a Pro license on eBay for about $20. The other two who aren't computer savvy would prob be better off with an brand name NVR (at which point choosing between HikVis/Dahua/Whatever brand cameras is more important).

For the sake of keeping things simple, just use port forwarding on their existing router unless they have a nice user friendly one that can setup and run its on VPN. Thats IF they wanna be able to monitor the cams remotely, which i'd imagine they would since you said live monitoring. If they are absolutely adamant about no drilling, consider the HikVis Cube but i'd say they def are gonna need a separate router to designate their own network for that traffic. You can advise them about wifi being unstable and insecure but unless they are willing to join a forum like this and learn the ins and outs, they aren't going to care about the actual performance it has on their network as well as the security issues associated with Wifi cams.
 
Thanks all for the suggestions and experiences (and warnings). I truly believe that no good deed goes unpunished but at least they'll feed me when I come over to fix what they tinkered with. They're all pretty close enough to be considered family so I'll take what I get for my time.

For simplicity I was looking at a Swann 8 port NVR with 4 Swann cameras, a package deal from the local Microcenter store for $599. I also asked Nellys to quote me a similar system but they came in at $1,000. Since I'll probably have to use EOP for several of the cams, at least at the stone house, there will be a few bucks added for 12VDC power adapters and the EOP extenders no matter which package I went with. The guys with the standard wood/siding houses should be ok with drilling holes for standard POE.

The thing I don't like about the Swann system (I downloaded their manuals and watched their crappy install videos) is that they don't have much in the way of user accounts/settings for external access, and they REQUIRE that you install a program on your local PC to access the cams. 3/4 of these guys will probably be ok with using the Google/iphone apps. The senior citizen still has a flip phone and likes it that way though he is threatening to get a tablet...

Don't get me wrong, Ken has written a great product with BI, but I don't know if I can put together a cheap, yet powerful enough, frankenbox to run BI, and 4 Hik or Dahua cameras. In the end it would probably be easier on me and do EVERYTHING everyone needed...

Bp2008, do you really think an I3 will run 4 cameras and BI without trouble? How much RAM would you recommend? My home BI box is an i7 w/16GB and with 10 cams recording motion only it runs at 30% CPU and 2.7G Memory. Probably ridiculous overkill but I got a deal :) As I write this I am really leaning back towards that kind of setup ... Go ahead guys, slap me around with a little more reality checks. I do appreciate it.
 
Only problem with those boxed system is... other then the quality and poor customer service... is if you need to return it you're going to have to take apart and repack the ENTIRE system. One camera goes, most places won't just replace a part of it. I mean you could get lucky and try but that's my biggest concern.
 
Get a Dahua or Hikvision basic 4-camera with NVR rebrand starter system at Costco. In the past these have been sold under the Swann or Lorex brand names but be careful...not all Swann or Lorex syems are Dahua or Hikvision units.
 
Thanks. The cameras are advertised as 3MP so I'm hoping they can't be THAT bad. I looked at Swann's website and they do advertise 7x24 tech support. The one person I did speak to at Swann immediately confessed my questions were over her head and quickly transferred me up a level, so that wasn't so bad. I threw together a quick spreadsheet and with a cheap desktop ($350), 4 cameras at about $150 each, and BI, I'm pretty close to that $1,000 mark already. I'm sure I'll regret it but I think for their budgets (~$700) we'll have to look at the Swann package.
 
mrvelous01 said:
Found this one on Costco website...
Click to expand...

"...security grade 100% duty cycle hard drive..."


"...recording resolution up to Super HD 4MP..."


"...Night Vision Range: Up to...90' (27m) in total darkness..."


"...Product details have been supplied by the Manufacturer a bullshit artist..."
 
I mean it wouldn't be the worst thing. If they don't know any better and you only use a few of the cameras in the kit, you can mount those and set everything up. If one goes down, just replace it.

If you're driving a brand new Kia, you don't know what your missing with a Corvette if you've never driven one, if you know what I mean. Ignorance is bliss :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Q™
Have u considered a dahua NVR instead of a desktop and BI???
4-4431c-a cams. 4mp withaudio and IVS = $290
4216dahua NVR =$225
3tb hdd = $100
8 port poe switch = $75-100
Spool of cat 5 cable = $50

Expandable. Better resolution. pretty sure all 3 would be happy and close to budget.
 
mrvelous01 said:
Replacement Swann cameras at Costmo ... $229 for (2) domes OR (2) bullets ... Yeah, I'll have to give it a shot.
Click to expand...

Those are actually Western Region ("WR") cameras which is a good thing. But it's too bad that they don't sell the turret form factor which are much better for outside installations. Truth be told you can purchase Chinese Region ("CH") versions of those cameras on AliExpress with hacked English language firmware for approximately $70.00 each...just don't try to flash the firmware or else you'll ruin them.
 
I basically did exactly what marid2apterbilt just suggested except with the NVR4216 with built in POE. Ordered 8 of the same cameras which should be here today. Ordered cameras from Sincerity Trading on Allie last week. Shipping was free Fedex and took about a week. Bought the NVR on eBay last week and it got here yesterday. Started the cable layout and pulls last weekend so hoping to have at least a few cameras up by this weekend.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom