Writing to two HDs

[Pyrofighting]

you will 100 percent have issues...I personally guarantee it. Drives should be locally installed on the server.

Another thought I had.

Save 14-21 days of video to an BI Server HD (not the OS drive but another drive in the computer) then have it move to another drive in an enclosure to save for the needed 365 days of saved video.


My current setup just sends all recording straight to a HD in the enclosure hooked up with usb 3.2

 

[SouthernYankee]

If you want a backup of your video data in realtime, use a network drive stored in a safe place. Then define a clone camera for each camera you want to back up. adjust the clone camera to be simple write, no motion detection, no AI. Just write. Make sure the Network drive is on a good UPS.

I run 8 cameras to a network drive at 15 fps, 4mp with no problems.

 

[Pyrofighting]

The theoretical transfer speed of USB 3.0 is 4.8 Gbit/s (600MBps) and when I tested it with 2 cameras for the live recording, it started stalling after 25min. It can't keep up with the sustained, non-buffering of video cameras.

Some say they work just fine, but my experience was not at all.

It is probably OK for already recorded video and transferring off, but sending a live stream will inevitably cause problems.

USB-C has a transfer rate of 10Gbps.

 

[Pyrofighting]

If you want a backup of your video data in realtime, use a network drive stored in a safe place. Then define a clone camera for each camera you want to back up. adjust the clone camera to be simple write, no motion detection, no AI. Just write. Make sure the Network drive is on a good UPS.

I run 8 cameras to a network drive at 15 fps, 4mp with no problems.

Awesome, may I ask what network drive and enclosure you use? (Surveillance HD, NAS HD, etc) Is the enclosure hooked up over the network via cat 5/6 I assume?

I’m really starting to like this idea of cloning the six cameras I need this extra backup. It’s 365 days of audio/video.
I’ve been playing with the bit rate (I wish I knew more about rate besides higher is better quality) and resolution to bring down the bps. Changing to H265+ helped a ton with that. Now some fine tuning.

Thank you!

 

[wittaj]

USB-C has a transfer rate of 10Gbps.

The point is USB 3.0 speeds are more than sufficient for 2 cameras that were 2MP and couldn't sustain it, so if your needs are mission critical I wouldn't trust USB type connections.

You do not want to use H265+ with BI as BI does not do well with the +.

 

[Starglow]

USB-C has a transfer rate of 10Gbps.

With Thunderbolt you can go up to 40Gbps.

 

[danweber1]

I was not under the impression that a thunderbolt 2-bay enclosure on raid 1 was cheating out. They are about $200-300 each from OWC. Mobius has one at $160, that’s probably the cheapest. But Daisy chained thunderbolt devices appear to be solid and high transfer rates.

It is though. Essentially you want an enterprise level setup at budget prices. Those two don't mix. What the people on here are trying to tell you, Your proposed solution for storage is not ideal and the potential for issues is very high. Usb or thunderbolt transfer speeds you list are theoretical maximums of what the protocol/port is capable of. What you get in the real world is vastly different and that is what they are trying to tell you. Unless you have a legitimate reason to store that amount of data, all you are doing is creating a more complex environment for not good reason. Beyond the added complexity, you also add in significant cost.

 

[Pyrofighting]

It is though. Essentially you want an enterprise level setup at budget prices. Those two don't mix. What the people on here are trying to tell you, Your proposed solution for storage is not ideal and the potential for issues is very high. Usb or thunderbolt transfer speeds you list are theoretical maximums of what the protocol/port is capable of. What you get in the real world is vastly different and that is what they are trying to tell you. Unless you have a legitimate reason to store that amount of data, all you are doing is creating a more complex environment for not good reason. Beyond the added complexity, you also add in significant cost.

My fault for giving that impression. This is gonna cost a lot. I accept that. Im really trying to learn more about BI and using NAS or backup.

My thoughts now are this.

1. Main BI Computer
i7-14700
64TB DDR5 Ram
1 or 2 TB NVME OS Drive
4 TB extra drive used for whatever I may need
Nvidia Graphics Card (used for two large 4K monitors)

2. Six OWC Mercury Elite Dual Pro Enclosures ($330 each without HDs) daisy chained with thunderbolt
Each one setup as RAID 1 with 12TB WD Purple drives
(This would give me 365 days of video for each of the 6 required cameras, it also gives me redundancy for drive failure)
(I like this idea because I can p touch each enclosure labeled for the camera it goes to. It also goes my employees easy ability to hot swap a bad drive)

3.a. One OWC Thunderbay 8 with eight 18tb western digital purple drives for 30 other cameras
Or
3.b. One Synology with Seagate Skyhawk AI 16tb for 30 other cameras
(These cameras aren’t critical for backup. I was thinking RAID 6 just to protect from drive failure

4. Some type of NAS to backup the six required cameras. I do not know how this would work with backup. I assume some type of software in windows would backup those six RAID 1 drives. I could get another Synology with nas drives.


I also like the idea some have given of cloning those 6 cameras and run them to two separate hard drives. That seems very simple to me.

 

[Pyrofighting]

The point is USB 3.0 speeds are more than sufficient for 2 cameras that were 2MP and couldn't sustain it, so if your needs are mission critical I wouldn't trust USB type connections.

You do not want to use H265+ with BI as BI does not do well with the +.

Why doesn’t BI like 265+?

 

[wittaj]

Why doesn’t BI like 265+?

From the BI help file:

For the best chance at compatibility, you should ensure that the stream is encoded as “simple” as possible via direct camera settings. H.264/H.265 “main” profile without manufacturer-specific add-ons such as + or “smart” modes is most likely to be compatible.

The smart codec can introduce problems and sometimes they are not immediate - usually someone posts here that all of a sudden a quarter or half of their image is green and it is because of the + codec.

Also take a look at this thread on the pros/cons of H265 - depending on your use case and the cameras, you may want to stick with H264. Some cameras offer H265 but are very inefficient and poor in its implementation and results in issues.

h264 or h265

Hey all, I noticed I get a bit of mixed feedback as to whether or not to run H265 or H264... What do you run? and why? It seems more practical to run 4MP @ 15FPS / 6144 CBR on 265?

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Pyrofighting]

From the BI help file:

For the best chance at compatibility, you should ensure that the stream is encoded as “simple” as possible via direct camera settings. H.264/H.265 “main” profile without manufacturer-specific add-ons such as + or “smart” modes is most likely to be compatible.

The smart codec can introduce problems and sometimes they are not immediate - usually someone posts here that all of a sudden a quarter or half of their image is green and it is because of the + codec.

Also take a look at this thread on the pros/cons of H265 - depending on your use case and the cameras, you may want to stick with H264. Some cameras offer H265 but are very inefficient and poor in its implementation and results in issues.

h264 or h265

Hey all, I noticed I get a bit of mixed feedback as to whether or not to run H265 or H264... What do you run? and why? It seems more practical to run 4MP @ 15FPS / 6144 CBR on 265?

ipcamtalk.com

Thank you for that, i missed it. I will adjust back to just H265. Now Ill mess with bit rate and resolution to save space.

 

[Pyrofighting]

From the BI help file:

For the best chance at compatibility, you should ensure that the stream is encoded as “simple” as possible via direct camera settings. H.264/H.265 “main” profile without manufacturer-specific add-ons such as + or “smart” modes is most likely to be compatible.

The smart codec can introduce problems and sometimes they are not immediate - usually someone posts here that all of a sudden a quarter or half of their image is green and it is because of the + codec.

Also take a look at this thread on the pros/cons of H265 - depending on your use case and the cameras, you may want to stick with H264. Some cameras offer H265 but are very inefficient and poor in its implementation and results in issues.

h264 or h265

Hey all, I noticed I get a bit of mixed feedback as to whether or not to run H265 or H264... What do you run? and why? It seems more practical to run 4MP @ 15FPS / 6144 CBR on 265?

ipcamtalk.com

Very informative post to read, thank you. Makes sense with what I’ve seen with my own cameras and settings.

 

[Pyrofighting]

Ok, I’m back with more questions/ suggestion request. I appreciate all the input so far.

I’ve noticed most NAS enclosures prefer NAS drives instead of surveillance drives.

So, here are my thought on a couple of options. I’m not sure I’m understanding the BI storage options completely but I know you all do.

Remember, we are talking about 76tb of HD space for these six cameras recording 365 days, and thats without RAID.

1. Surveillance to NAS
Setup BI in main storage settings to record six cameras to the New Folder (two 18tb WD Purple HDs that are RAID 1 and inside the main computer).
Once the New Folder hits its GB limit set in BI, have the data transferred to a Raid 6 NAS with WD Gold HDs. It would be a large enough NAS to hold 365 days of data.
(My concern with this is the extra movement of data. Just one more thing to cause a problem later)

2. Straight to NAS
Setup BI in each camera record setting to save the data straight to a RAID 6 NAS with WD Purple HDS. This NAS would be large enough for 365 days of data.
I can partition the Raid 6 NAS with six partitions (folders). One for each camera.
Like I said, I can then set each of the six cameras to record to its own partition (folder).
(My concern with this is the NAS is designed to be used with NAS HDs. Yes, you can use surveillance drives but it doesn’t appear its best practice)

*I added pics of those settings in BI. This is my current setup not what I’m proposing. Just thought the pics would help.

 

[IAmATeaf]

Personally I would just write straight to the target NAS, even more so if the storage areas that you are moving between are on the same NAS. Why faff around with moving data around?

 

[Pyrofighting]

Personally I would just write straight to the target NAS, even more so if the storage areas that you are moving between are on the same NAS. Why faff around with moving data around?

Im trying to find a good 8-12 bay DAS right now that will Raid 6. NAS appears to be overkill for me. I don’t need all those functions they come with.