5MP Outdoor Camera Advice

[ilmrfd]

Hello,

I'm kind of overwhelmed with the amount of information on security camera models. I've been quoted a price for some Axis P3367VE cameras at around $1000 (not installed). I've priced them out found pricing anywhere from $975 up to $1200 (again, not installed).

I'm shopping around to see if anyone can recommend an outdoor 5MP camera that will give me equal or better quality to the P3367VE, for a better price.

- Thanks

 

[hmjgriffon]

Hello,

I'm kind of overwhelmed with the amount of information on security camera models. I've been quoted a price for some Axis P3367VE cameras at around $1000 (not installed). I've priced them out found pricing anywhere from $975 up to $1200 (again, not installed).

I'm shopping around to see if anyone can recommend an outdoor 5MP camera that will give me equal or better quality to the P3367VE, for a better price.

- Thanks

Check out some of the pro hikvision stuff, I believe the price is comparable, or less.

 

[digger11]

If I had $2000 to spend on cameras, I'd have to consider which would serve me better, two 5mp cameras covering two angles of view of less than 90 degrees, or anwhere between about 8 and 20 Hikvision 3MP cameras, depending on which model(s) I chose.

Of course, if money is no object, I'd just buy 20 of the 5MP cameras and be done with it

 

[networkcameracritic]

Nothing I've seen compares to the P3367-VE. ACTi is coming out with a 6MP soon that will be their low light king and I'm sure will be less expensive.

 

[vector18]

For that kind of money, why not a PTZ?

 

[hmjgriffon]

For that kind of money, why not a PTZ?

That's what I was just thinking, unless you just want to cover a large area all the time.

 

[digger11]

It all depends on the desired results. If the OP is looking for a couple of cameras to obtain high resolution, high quality images for a particular reason, say for a couple of web cams, the Axis cameras may be perfect. If the objective is surveillance, unless once again there is a need for high quality coverage of just a couple of angles of approach, I'd think there are a lot of options that will provide more bang for the buck.

 

[paarlberg]

You can get about 6 of the 3MP Hik turrets for the same price as one Axis. You could have a mix of the 2.8, 4 and 6mm versions to cover a lot of area. Another option would be 4 of the 2732, then you could focus on anything you want. I also considered some of the P3300 series, just couldn't justify the price. Even though they would have replaced some Axis M3114-VE. Not to say they aren't great cams, just wasn't the most budget friendly option.

As others said, it all depends on what you need to monitor.

 

[ilmrfd]

Thanks for the replies.

This build out is for a residence that has a large amount of exterior area to cover. Currently there are 6 older analog PTZs at the site along with 4 fixed bullets covering the exterior. 2 of the PTZs are mounted approx. 30ft off the ground covering the driveway near the main house, 3rd PTZ is mounted also approx. 30ft off the ground covering the pool area, another PTZ mounted approx. 15 ft off the ground covering the emergency generator for the residence. The other two PTZs were installed, but never even hooked up (which is a completely separate issue). One bullet is mounted approx. 30ft off the ground covering the front steps for the main house, second bullet about 15ft off the ground covering the garage entrances, third bullet approx. 30ft off the ground covering a side gate into the pool area, and 4th bullet at the driveway entrance about 10ft off the ground covering the intercom and a small portion of the driveway on the outside of the main gate. All analog cameras, going into 2 DVRs, DVRs are isolated between interior and exterior cameras, with only the exterior views being able to be viewed remotely.

PTZs quoted by the local security company ranged anywhere from $3000 up to $5000, both from Axis, and pricing them on the internet was roughly the same. Currently most of the PTZs at the residence aren't even being utilized as PTZs. They're being used just to watch a specific portion of the residence.

I've walked the grounds during the evening and taken light readings on the outside, and we've planned in the budget for additional lighting in the areas that need it.

We're leaning toward going with Salient CompleteView for the NVR software, and I would be building our own NVR servers in house.

We'd be using these cameras for surveillance but only for after the fact forensic data. No live monitoring of them, other than the resident using their phone / tablet to casually view them once in a while. The goal given to me by my boss, was to be able to provide law enforcement with a high enough quality picture from recordings for recognition of an intruder.

Edit: Should have also stated that we'd planned on using the existing coax runs in the home as it's out of the question to run new CAT6 to camera locations just because of the amount of molding / drywall / paneling that would have to be replaced in the home. So we'd have to use some sort of media convertor to change the new cameras from CAT6 to COAX and back again when we got them into the NVR room.

 

[networkcameracritic]

Here's the issue with 5MP and I've tested a few. There's limits on what current lenses and sensor can do. This applies to all digital cameras. If I take a picture with my 12MP DSLR, I will get an image that has 12 million pixels but that does not mean I will have resolution at different settings that comes close to that. Actually, if you go to a site that reviews digital cameras, you will find 16MP camera that have lower resolution than my 12MP camera. This is measured by a set of lines that converge on a standard test chart. The tighter they get, the more resolution is needed to distinguish between the lines. So in the day, you may see a difference, albeit not 2.5X what a 1080P 2MP camera would show but at night, the difference diminishes quickly. From my personal experience, I have not seen a substantial difference in resolution between typical 3MP cameras and 5MP cameras. If I did, I would be using them.

As for PTZ cameras, Axis does not make a good one. Why, because they haven't yet figured out how to make a plastic dome for them. The P55 series to this date still has a white line near the top of the dome that is very annoying. The Q60 had a similar issue but considering the price, they fixed it, but still not perfect, but better. I had a customer pull out all his Axis Q60 and replace them Dahua and to this date, he will only buy Dahua PTZ and I don't blame him. The build quality and image quality is superior and the price is less than half. Most of them are 1080P (2MP) but they do have some models with 3MP.

If it was me and I needed 5MP, I would get two 1080P or 3MP cameras side by side and end up with 4-6MP. Put side by side, the pixel width would be be much better than a single 5MP, after all, most people need the picture to be wider, and not capture a lot of pretty blue sky or grass.

 

[ilmrfd]

I personally don't think we 'need' 5MP cameras everywhere, that's just been the directive from my boss because they're in the mindset that more MP is always better. Personally, I think 3MP cameras would be more than adequate for the garage entrances, main steps, and side pool entrance. I've suggested several times that we could upgrade the interior cameras to 1MP instead of 3MP (currently they're only 640x480 analog i believe), and most of the exterior cameras upgrade to 3MP except for specific locations where 5MP would be appropriate.

 

[hmjgriffon]

Thanks for the replies.

This build out is for a residence that has a large amount of exterior area to cover. Currently there are 6 older analog PTZs at the site along with 4 fixed bullets covering the exterior. 2 of the PTZs are mounted approx. 30ft off the ground covering the driveway near the main house, 3rd PTZ is mounted also approx. 30ft off the ground covering the pool area, another PTZ mounted approx. 15 ft off the ground covering the emergency generator for the residence. The other two PTZs were installed, but never even hooked up (which is a completely separate issue). One bullet is mounted approx. 30ft off the ground covering the front steps for the main house, second bullet about 15ft off the ground covering the garage entrances, third bullet approx. 30ft off the ground covering a side gate into the pool area, and 4th bullet at the driveway entrance about 10ft off the ground covering the intercom and a small portion of the driveway on the outside of the main gate. All analog cameras, going into 2 DVRs, DVRs are isolated between interior and exterior cameras, with only the exterior views being able to be viewed remotely.

PTZs quoted by the local security company ranged anywhere from $3000 up to $5000, both from Axis, and pricing them on the internet was roughly the same. Currently most of the PTZs at the residence aren't even being utilized as PTZs. They're being used just to watch a specific portion of the residence.

I've walked the grounds during the evening and taken light readings on the outside, and we've planned in the budget for additional lighting in the areas that need it.

We're leaning toward going with Salient CompleteView for the NVR software, and I would be building our own NVR servers in house.

We'd be using these cameras for surveillance but only for after the fact forensic data. No live monitoring of them, other than the resident using their phone / tablet to casually view them once in a while. The goal given to me by my boss, was to be able to provide law enforcement with a high enough quality picture from recordings for recognition of an intruder.

Edit: Should have also stated that we'd planned on using the existing coax runs in the home as it's out of the question to run new CAT6 to camera locations just because of the amount of molding / drywall / paneling that would have to be replaced in the home. So we'd have to use some sort of media convertor to change the new cameras from CAT6 to COAX and back again when we got them into the NVR room.

Holy bajeezus man, is this some rich famous person's mansion? Why do they have a bunch of PTZ's if no one monitors them? Seems like a horrendous waste of money. For the kind of money they must have, you could buy some of those awesome avigilon cameras or mobotix. Also how much is that NVR software? It looks like they paint their name on a rack mount dell server and sell it to you, I'm guessing it runs on linux.

 

[ilmrfd]

Holy bajeezus man, is this some rich famous person's mansion? Why do they have a bunch of PTZ's if no one monitors them? Seems like a horrendous waste of money. For the kind of money they must have, you could buy some of those awesome avigilon cameras or mobotix.

I would agree on the PTZs being wasted with no one actually live monitoring them. Initially when the 2 PTZ's covering the driveway were put in they had a special tracking setup that would track any cars that came up the driveway. And if more than one vehicle came up the driveway at the same time they would track the largest of the two vehicles. But that tracking function seems to have failed an unknown length of time ago.

Also how much is that NVR software? It looks like they paint their name on a rack mount dell server and sell it to you, I'm guessing it runs on linux.

The Salient CompleteView One NVR software was quoted at $75 / camera (varies depending on volume discounts etc.) But that would include Analog Capture Cards for any analog camera we'd intend too keep. If we went with their servers, they do just use Dell servers with their software pre-installed. And no, it doesn't run on Linux, only Windows.

 

[networkcameracritic]

Not familiar with Salient but I've seen their booth at ISC but don't remember stopping in. The market leaders are Milestone and Exacq and both have their entry level product for about $49/camera. The advantage of going with a leader is they got there for reason and they are more likely to support a new camera that comes out sooner than products from smaller companies as they have partnerships with them. That does not include analog capture cards but I would imagine they are not expensive. Also, they tend to have better client software for example web client, smartphone apps and such.

PTZ does not have to be a waste if used properly. For example, you can get a 180 degree view camera and when motion is detected, it can send an URL command to the PTZ telling it where to go. Tracking is another option but I had not had good success with that. Also, you can set a patrol of preset locations, so you can say cover 2-3 areas with one camera. These days, you can buy good 1080P PTZ for under $600 and IR PTZ for about a grand.

 

[hmjgriffon]

Not familiar with Salient but I've seen their booth at ISC but don't remember stopping in. The market leaders are Milestone and Exacq and both have their entry level product for about $49/camera. The advantage of going with a leader is they got there for reason and they are more likely to support a new camera that comes out sooner than products from smaller companies as they have partnerships with them. That does not include analog capture cards but I would imagine they are not expensive. Also, they tend to have better client software for example web client, smartphone apps and such.

PTZ does not have to be a waste if used properly. For example, you can get a 180 degree view camera and when motion is detected, it can send an URL command to the PTZ telling it where to go. Tracking is another option but I had not had good success with that. Also, you can set a patrol of preset locations, so you can say cover 2-3 areas with one camera. These days, you can buy good 1080P PTZ for under $600 and IR PTZ for about a grand.

That's pretty awesome, I am interested in this one camera to cover an area and direct the PTZ, how hard was that to do? What the software super expensive?

 

[ilmrfd]

Thanks again for all the feedback, keep it coming. This house is the CEO's of our company and has been designated as the test bed for me implementing security camera system upgrades across the entire business. I know each site will be different and require different types of cameras for each specific application. But any help / suggestions I could get are GREATLY appreciated.

Currently we've got about 140+ cameras spanning multiple locations, from Hotels, Warehouses, Industrial Sites, Retail Locations, Office Buildings, and Self Storage locations. So this has turned out to be a huge undertaking for myself as I've had no prior experience with a project of this size, nor with anything in the security camera sector. My background is in Information Technology, so I've got a pretty good grasp on the server / network side of things, but I'm very open to suggestions regarding any and all aspects.

 

[networkcameracritic]

That's pretty awesome, I am interested in this one camera to cover an area and direct the PTZ, how hard was that to do? What the software super expensive?

With just about any PTZ, you set what are called presets. Meaning you point the camera exactly where you want, then save it with a name or number or both. Then when you want to go straight to that location, you just select it from the drop down on the web browser display. If you want to setup a patrol you just create a patrol, tell it which presets to go to and for how long, then start the patrol, the rest is automagic.

Your NVR or NVR software may have it's own patrol setup, never tried it but that would be better as it would not likely treat the patrol motion as video motion detect. For Milestone XProtect, you would need the Express version would be the lowest cost with this feature, $99ish per camera.

 

[hmjgriffon]

Thanks again for all the feedback, keep it coming. This house is the CEO's of our company and has been designated as the test bed for me implementing security camera system upgrades across the entire business. I know each site will be different and require different types of cameras for each specific application. But any help / suggestions I could get are GREATLY appreciated.

Currently we've got about 140+ cameras spanning multiple locations, from Hotels, Warehouses, Industrial Sites, Retail Locations, Office Buildings, and Self Storage locations. So this has turned out to be a huge undertaking for myself as I've had no prior experience with a project of this size, nor with anything in the security camera sector. My background is in Information Technology, so I've got a pretty good grasp on the server / network side of things, but I'm very open to suggestions regarding any and all aspects.

Sounds about like me, although I haven't done my first job yet, only worked on my own system.

 

[No5]

If it was me and I needed 5MP, I would get two 1080P or 3MP cameras side by side and end up with 4-6MP. Put side by side, the pixel width would be be much better than a single 5MP, after all, most people need the picture to be wider, and not capture a lot of pretty blue sky or grass.

Thanks to the Networkcameracritic for his online reviews and feedback to me, I'm going with 3MP ACTi exterior domes. So far I've been happy with my E72. I have a varifocal (E82) coming in the next week or two.

I'm going with all 3MP exterior domes.

As an added extra, I reside in Canada and need to have extreme cold (winter) operation. ACTi's domes are good to -40°C (-40°F) which beats Dahua or Hikvision specs.

 

[icerabbit]

Capturing details is important, but one is better off with multiple 1-2-3 mp cameras to cover properties than having just a couple 5MP ones.

While the idea of more megapixels may be better on paper, it really will depend on sensor size & lens quality for that to pan out. Like other's have said.

The highest mp cameras come in at a lot bigger price point and may not offer a great framerate for recording. Which is the worst part of multiple cameras with those extra megapixels. 5MP cameras drastically increase the bandwidth and storage needs. This may not be an issue for the each of the companies' budget, but, as I'm sure you understand, practically speaking, some system will have to process all the incoming data and save it. When you're talking commercial installs, you are pretty much looking at continues recording from lots of angles.

My vote would be for a balanced system with probably 2-3mp outside and 1mp inside.

Use cameras field of view to match broad coverage needs and focus on specific entry locations.

Which comes back to the 5MP thing, depending on the site, camera type, camera angle and its field of view, one can be recording a ton of sky, trees, shrubs, pavement, ... which would be a waste of pixels and storage.

Good luck with your project.

Hope to hear back about the actual installation.