Front door/Window to the outside suggestion please/thanks!

frankred · Dec 10, 2015

Hi,
I am trying to figure out what camera to put near my front door. I have seen a few suggestions in earlier threads but I thought it might make sense to post a few additional details. The front entry area on our house has lots of side lights and few places to run wires through the attic (slab foundation). On the left of the first picture, I put a white box where there is a coat closet. I could get a cat 5 wire through there. The right of the front door area is all open and the rest of the walls connect directly from the roof line (hard to run wires).

It addition to the wiring difficulties, I have the 4 pillars that are obstacles in from the camera pov. I would prefer to maximize the location of the camera to allow for the best viewing angle.

I have plenty of overhead on my BI server. I also have a POE switch. I currently have 2 Hikvision cameras.

What camera would you put there, what lense angle, and where would you put it?

Thanks!
John

front door cell side 2015-12-08 14.29.28.jpg

I put my HIK 2332 4mm up for a test. I should have had it in landscape, not portrait. It was also mounted rather high up...

Q™ · Dec 10, 2015

What do you want your "front door cam" to accomplish? Motion detection? Motion detection with enough detail for face recognition? Narrow your requirements and you'll get better feedback.

JimandYen · Dec 10, 2015

Personally I like the view from the middle picture but of course mount it somewhat higher. I have one mounted like that with a 12mm lens. You might put another cam to cover the front walkway. Can you get any wiring through where the light is on top..? Some wiring might have to be exposed if you can't find a better way.

frankred · Dec 10, 2015

Q2U said:
What do you want your "front door cam" to accomplish? Motion detection? Motion detection with enough detail for face recognition? Narrow your requirements and you'll get better feedback.

Thanks Q2U.

Yes, I want motion detection in Blue Iris and I also want a good enough picture for facial recognition (although I feel like maybe that is a technical term that I am using casually...). I should say that there is a lamp post with a light sensor about 20 feet in front of the door. The front door area is dark at night and I would like for the camera to have good night vision.

Also, I forgot to explain in my title better - I said "window to the outside" because most of the windows in the attached pic and the other windows on the front of the house are obscured glass and the view out of the front of the house is limited...

I updated the pictures with a few notes. I also switched from uploads to hosting so the format should be preserved.

frankred · Dec 10, 2015

JimandYen said:
Personally I like the view from the middle picture but of course mount it somewhat higher. I have one mounted like that with a 12mm lens. You might put another cam to cover the front walkway. Can you get any wiring through where the light is on top..? Some wiring might have to be exposed if you can't find a better way.

The light is mounted from probably 10'. Based on my reading here, that is way to high to get a good shot of a person's face.

I will also have to build some sort of wooden mounting block to go between those slats if I mount it to the dark brown wood.

Q™ · Dec 10, 2015

I'm no expert Frank, but it seems to me that motion detection is the easy part. Being able to identify faces is the hard part (if you don't get the lens right), so I'd put a 6mm Hikvision 4MP turret, or that Huisun PTZ WondaCam™ ('cause I had to be the first to say it!!!) right where the red arrow ends in the picture below. This would give you faces of those persons entering the premises...but not the faces of those exiting the premises.

JimandYen · Dec 10, 2015

frankred said:
The light is mounted from probably 10'. Based on my reading here, that is way to high to get a good shot of a person's face.

I will also have to build some sort of wooden mounting block to go between those slats if I mount it to the dark brown wood.

I was referring to the pic with the side view of the door that looks about level with the deadbolt lock.

frankred · Dec 10, 2015

JimandYen said:
I was referring to the pic with the side view of the door that looks about level with the deadbolt lock.

Sorry, my mistake. That makes a lot more sense!

frankred · Dec 10, 2015

Q2U said:
I'm no expert Frank, but it seems to me that motion detection is the easy part. Being able to identify faces is the hard part (if you don't get the lens right), so I'd put a 6mm Hikvision 4MP turret, or that Huisun PTZ WondaCam™ ('cause I had to be the first to say it!!!) right where the red arrow ends in the picture below. This would give you faces of those persons entering the premises...but not the faces of those exiting the premises.

View attachment 6865

I do think I prefer the turret or mini-dome form factors. I don't want a big bullet at my front door.

frankred · Dec 11, 2015

colmcille said:
1. Extend the defensive planting you have to close the area and have only one approach.
2. Mount a 2.8mm (90 degree-ish) camera at shoulder height next to the door to cover the only remaining approach.
3. Get a dog, because anyone who makes their way through the above perimeter is going to be high on drugs and won't give a fig about being seen on camera. They will also be covered in blood from the nasty plants cutting them. A suitable dog will take care of what's left of the scumbag/s if they make it through the door or those windows.

I was thinking a 2.8mm makes sense there. What model would you recommend?

Q™ · Dec 11, 2015

frankred said:
I do think I prefer the turret or mini-dome form factors. I don't want a big bullet at my front door.

I do too, but what you may be missing is that this particular camera is a PTZ camera with a 5.1 to 51mm motorized zoom lens. Being a PTZ camera you can zoom in, zoom out, pan, tilt and get the exact field of view that you need to accomplish your requirements. The downside is that it's one ugly mother, but it's upside is tremendous. However, if you prefer fashion over functionality, have at it.

frankred · Dec 14, 2015

Q2U said:
I do too, but what you may be missing is that this particular camera is a PTZ camera with a 5.1 to 51mm motorized zoom lens. Being a PTZ camera you can zoom in, zoom out, pan, tilt and get the exact field of view that you need to accomplish your requirements. The downside is that it's one ugly mother, but it's upside is tremendous. However, if you prefer fashion over functionality, have at it.

Thanks for the info on that. That would be really nice. However, I think I am still going to pass based on form factor.
I will go with 2.8mm.
Now I just have to pick a camera and it sounds like my options are Mini-dome or Turret.
I am not sure I can discuss price or not...
Mini-dome
The 2542 looks like the price is twice the others, so it is out.
2532 could work.

Turret:
2342 seems reasonably priced for what it does.
2332 was half of what I am finding the 2342 NOW based on when I bought it. However, it seems to have gone up.

I have not spent a lot of time looking into Dahua, but:
HDBW4421F looks like an option. It looks like it is priced at quite a bit more than it's Hik counterpart though.
HDW4421E looks good but doesn't come with 2.8mm, just 3.6mm. Not sure if that is a deal breaker or not...

Can anyone offer an opinion on these options?

zero-degrees · Dec 14, 2015

@frankred

Turret will give you more even and better IR coverage, however the turret is large and I don't know that I would personally want that at eye level on the wood siding - however depending on over head that light if its on at night you may not need IR. My porch dome IR is off as the lighting provides perfect coverage and IR is not needed. If this is the case you might just want to consider the mini dome mounted shoulder height on the side with cabling going into the closet. This will give you nice approach shots and you won't have to contend with the light hanging in the way if you mount it high. Also you can then paint the mini dome base to blend with the wood siding a lot easier then a turret will.

The only downside to all this is your door bell is mounted on the other side - if would be nice if the door bell and camera were on same side forcing the individual approaching to be looking at the doorbell/camera for a nice facial capture on approach.

Really the only other option is to run small conduit out of the closet and mount the camera directly above the center of the door for good approach shots. I would be concerned having the camera mounted high with the light in the shot regardless.

Also with a little looking here you should be able to secure the 3mp mini dome for sub 150 or the 4mp mini dome for sub 200...

frankred · Dec 14, 2015

zero-degrees said:
@frankred

Turret will give you more even and better IR coverage, however the turret is large and I don't know that I would personally want that at eye level on the wood siding - however depending on over head that light if its on at night you may not need IR. My porch dome IR is off as the lighting provides perfect coverage and IR is not needed. If this is the case you might just want to consider the mini dome mounted shoulder height on the side with cabling going into the closet. This will give you nice approach shots and you won't have to contend with the light hanging in the way if you mount it high. Also you can then paint the mini dome base to blend with the wood siding a lot easier then a turret will.

The only downside to all this is your door bell is mounted on the other side - if would be nice if the door bell and camera were on same side forcing the individual approaching to be looking at the doorbell/camera for a nice facial capture on approach.

Really the only other option is to run small conduit out of the closet and mount the camera directly above the center of the door for good approach shots. I would be concerned having the camera mounted high with the light in the shot regardless.

Also with a little looking here you should be able to secure the 3mp mini dome for sub 150 or the 4mp mini dome for sub 200...

Thanks for the info! The porch light is left off. I will look into this more when I get home.

0658 · Dec 14, 2015

My front door set up is very similar to yours but not quite as wide. I had a 3 PM bullet mounted on the right side wall (looking at the house from the front) for about two years. About 5 months ago I upgraded to a 4 MP Turret, 4 mm (Milk is Bad was the supplier) and have been very happy. The turret has much better IR performance in that area. The one draw back is you can't see who is approaching the front door via the front walkway (second camera needed if not already there). Often depending upon the way people face, you may not get a full side shot of them. Overall I am happy with the set up.

The one problem I had, at least for my door, was that I had no way to run cable at that exact location and once the person was up to the door, they were under the range of any camera I could put there, hence the side of the front covered area mounting.

JimandYen · Dec 14, 2015

frankred said:
Thanks for the info on that. That would be really nice. However, I think I am still going to pass based on form factor.
I will go with 2.8mm.
Now I just have to pick a camera and it sounds like my options are Mini-dome or Turret.
I am not sure I can discuss price or not...
Mini-dome
The 2542 looks like the price is twice the others, so it is out.
2532 could work.

Turret:
2342 seems reasonably priced for what it does.
2332 was half of what I am finding the 2342 NOW based on when I bought it. However, it seems to have gone up.

I have not spent a lot of time looking into Dahua, but:
HDBW4421F looks like an option. It looks like it is priced at quite a bit more than it's Hik counterpart though.
HDW4421E looks good but doesn't come with 2.8mm, just 3.6mm. Not sure if that is a deal breaker or not...

Can anyone offer an opinion on these options?

I have 4 of the Dahua HDBW4421R w/ 3.6mm lens from Ebay for a decent price. I had talked to sales at Nelly's a few months back and they didn't have those yet.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dahua-IPC-HDBW4421R-AS-IR-IP-Camera-4MP-Full-HD-Network-Camera-POE-Micro-SD-Card-/201453025256?roken=cUgayN&soutkn=FBpjhT via @eBay

frankred · Dec 14, 2015

JimandYen said:
I have 4 of the Dahua HDBW4421R w/ 3.6mm lens from Ebay for a decent price. I had talked to sales at Nelly's a few months back and they didn't have those yet.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dahua-IPC-HDBW4421R-AS-IR-IP-Camera-4MP-Full-HD-Network-Camera-POE-Micro-SD-Card-/201453025256?roken=cUgayN&soutkn=FBpjhT via @eBay

Interesting camera. I am having a hard time finding the IR range on it. Do you have an actual or quoted range? Or maybe another type of camera to compare it to?

JimandYen · Dec 14, 2015

frankred said:
Interesting camera. I am having a hard time finding the IR range on it. Do you have an actual or quoted range? Or maybe another type of camera to compare it to?

Well the specs say 30m. Here's a pic from my unlit driveway with a HDBW4421R 3.6 lens. No SD card slot in this model if that's something you need.

frankred · Dec 22, 2015

I got the cable run done and I mounted my 4mm 2332 where I punched the cable through for a start. It is mounted on the star. If I want to move it by the doorbell, I will paint some flat cat6 to match the house and run it over. From this side angle, it seems that this viewing width is sufficient.

frankred · Dec 22, 2015

colmcille said:
Hmm, what's with the colouring on the camera picture? Something is not right there.

Lessons learned when shopping on Ali - See this thread and the one I linked in the OP. https://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread...s-2332-to-work

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Front door/Window to the outside suggestion please/thanks!

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JimandYen

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