Ubiquiti UniFi AI Port

rpmartinez

n3wb
Dec 9, 2022
4
0
Upstate NY
I’m looking at integrating some of Andy’s T54IR-AS into UniFi protect thru their new ONVIF support. I would need to add AI ports to the system in order to receive smart detections on these cameras but I saw a comment on Reddit stating that these cameras are having issues with UniFi protect and the AI port.

Has anyone here tested this?
 
Hey @rpmartinez I see you DM'd me as well so thought I would answer here in efforts to help others. Tagging @EMPIRETECANDY for awareness too.

I run a full Unifi infrastructure (as well as others) as part of multiple setups I have in place. This includes Protect architecture for testing as well. The AI Port was certainly an interesting device when announced but there are a number of shortcomings to it that many are not aware of, the main being cost when scaling as well as capabilities.

While at point of announce this sounded like a very cool device that would allow most to move residential, small business or even commercial deployments into UI’s surveillance middleware, once released it was / is clear that their sole intention is to support 1 or 2 cams while instead you look to purchase their cams for your deployment. The downside there is that while UI cams have certainly come on in their design and feature support, they still do not hold a candle to pro camera manufacturers like Dahua, Hikvision, Axis etc.

So what are the shortcomings, pitfalls that I talk about. Let me list those below:
  • Cost. At $199 each and with limited camera support per AI Port (both now and in the future), this gets expensive, fast. Let me rundown some typical deployments with numbers:
    • 2K / 4 MP Camera Deployments First:
      • 8 x 2K (4MP) cameras would require 4 x AI Ports (once the AI Port finally supports 2 x 2K cameras in future update) at a cost of $199 each for a total of $800
      • 16 x 2K (4MP) cameras would require 8 x AI Ports (once the AI Port finally supports 2 x 2K cameras in future update) at a cost of $199 each for a total of $1600
    • 4K / 8 MP Camera Deployments First:
      • 8 x 4K (8MP) cameras would require 8 x AI Ports (only 1 x 4K camera is and will be supported per AI Port) at a cost of $199 each for a total of $1600
      • 16 x 4K (8MP) cameras would require 8 x AI Ports (only 1 x 4K camera is and will be supported per AI Port) at a cost of $199 each for a total of $3200
IF you can get past the cost of how these scale for your deployment there are the other limiting factors:
  • AI Port has limited support for number of cameras based on resolution of the camera itself + firmware support of AI Port.
  • Multisensor cameras with very wide aspect ratios are not compatible (180 degree cams etc are / will not be supported)
  • The AI Port supports resolutions up to 4K (3840 x 2160) and 30 FPS.
  • Currently limited to 1 ONVIF camera per AI port.
  • In time, UI is promising to expand to multi-camera support per AI port but with the following limitations:
    • ONVIF 4K: Only 1 camera
    • ONVIF 2K: Up to 2 cameras
    • ONVIF HD: Up to 3 cameras
    • Unifi Protect Cameras: Up to 5 cameras (no limit mentioned on what each camera resolution needs to be limited to but MIGHT be 4K on UI cams only)
In my opinion and experience there are MUCH better (and cheaper) options out there including Dahua's own AI NVR's or roll your own surveillance NVR using a VM + Frigate or Blue Iris or Milestone etc, for a fraction of the cost.

Hope that helps you and others. Let me know with any questions
 
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As of 2 months ago a comment was posted on Reddit reporting that Empiretech cameras are not compatible with the AI port.

“I can confirm that it in fact doesn't work with all onvif cameras. My empiretech branded dahua cameras do not work with the AI port. The video feed will not stay connected and it reboots. Amcrest Branded Dahua POE camera works fine.”
I PM’d this person but have yet to hear back from them.

Is this still the case?
 
As of 2 months ago a comment was posted on Reddit reporting that Empiretech cameras are not compatible with the AI port.

“I can confirm that it in fact doesn't work with all onvif cameras. My empiretech branded dahua cameras do not work with the AI port. The video feed will not stay connected and it reboots. Amcrest Branded Dahua POE camera works fine.”
I PM’d this person but have yet to hear back from them.

Is this still the case?
I run and test a number of Dah, Hik, Axis and other brands and have not seen issues except with the very first few beta releases of the Protect Onvif Support FW. Those issues included not being able to detect cameras (turned out to be a limitation on UI's implementation, more below on this) as well as random disconnects that resulted in no camera feed and needing to be rebooted to re-establish the link.

Only other issues with the AI Port / Onvif Support (as its ONVIF for the camera connect and AI Port processing of the AI events) are those that related to setup/configuration of your Unifi architecture. For example ONVIF cameras (direct or through / attached to AI Port) do NOT do well across VLAN's in UI's implementation so depending on your deployment you have to adjust your configuration. I strongly advocate for VLAN separation for your surveillance cameras (as do others here) with that surveillance VLAN completely locked down. If you run Protect on a cloud gateway (UDM Pro etc) or even UNVR in a separate VLAN from your cameras then you'll need to either a) move your cams to the same VLAN as UNVR (not advised unless UNVR is isolated to surveillance VLAN) and / or b) adjust your FW rules to allow your camera access to the gateway (GW). Once GW access is allowed you will need to manually have (if not auto detected which is a 50/50 chance) your camera (through AI Port) polled via IP for setup. You could of course move your UNVR to your surveillance LAN and that would work too. Also depending on the UNVR you purchase, you can dual home the system using the regular 1x Gbe and 1x SFP and VLAN segregate each port on your UI switch ports in the upstream.
 
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I run and test a number of Dah, Hik, Axis and other brands and have not seen issues except with the very first few beta releases of the Protect Onvif Support FW. Those issues included not being able to detect cameras (turned out to be a limitation on UI's implementation, more below on this) as well as random disconnects that resulted in no camera feed and needing to be rebooted to re-establish the link.

Only other issues with the AI Port / Onvif Support (as its ONVIF for the camera connect and AI Port processing of the AI events) are those that related to setup/configuration of your Unifi architecture. For example ONVIF cameras (direct or through / attached to AI Port) do NOT do well across VLAN's in UI's implementation so depending on your deployment you have to adjust your configuration. I strongly advocate for VLAN separation for your surveillance cameras (as do others here) with that surveillance VLAN completely locked down. If you run Protect on a cloud gateway (UDM Pro etc) or even UNVR in a separate VLAN from your cameras then you'll need to either a) move your cams to the same VLAN as UNVR (not advised unless UNVR is isolated to surveillance VLAN) and / or b) adjust your FW rules to allow your camera access to the gateway (GW). Once GW access is allowed you will need to manually have (if not auto detected which is a 50/50 chance) your camera (through AI Port) polled via IP for setup. You could of course move your UNVR to your surveillance LAN and that would work too. Also depending on the UNVR you purchase, you can dual home the system using the regular 1x Gbe and 1x SFP and VLAN segregate each port on your UI switch ports in the upstream.
Thank you.
 
No problem. Just remember YMMV depending on your infrastructure, configuration, camera + associated FW levels across all of the above.
 
It’s a very simple network. I should have two ai ports to play with sometime this week. By any chance do you know when we should be expecting the firmware update that will allow two 2K cameras to be used with the AI port? Also does the AI port allow enhanced encoding (h265)?

Thanks
 
It’s a very simple network. I should have two ai ports to play with sometime this week. By any chance do you know when we should be expecting the firmware update that will allow two 2K cameras to be used with the AI port? Also does the AI port allow enhanced encoding (h265)?

Thanks
UI hasn't even released multi-cam support in EA yet so I don't expect it in release form any time soon. As I mentioned I think UI unfortunately see the AI Port as a necessary product to bring people into their Protect ecosystem BUT critically only for people to buy their cameras, not use 3rd party. The product has a number of shortcomings that I mentioned but also technically that have not been resolved yet. I don't think it's a priority for them over selling their own cameras. Its a shame as like I said, priced right, a device like this in a rack footprint with processing power to be able to offer multi camera support (I'm talking 8 to 16 cams), would be great. However, the way they brought this to market, is not it, and not at this price point IMO.

As mentioned, personally I would recommend running your own server (even VM) and running your cams through that (can still do LPR, Face Detection etc depending on what you choose as the Middleware / Software NVR solution.

h.265 is supported (enhanced beta tag) by UI but you would need to enable this on your camera stream as well. Personally as you'll see I've broken down extensively the difference between the codes in the past (take a look at my posts), I don't recommend h.265. Stick with h.264H.
 
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Hey @rpmartinez I see you DM'd me as well so thought I would answer here in efforts to help others. Tagging @EMPIRETECANDY for awareness too.

I run a full Unifi infrastructure (as well as others) as part of multiple setups I have in place. This includes Protect architecture for testing as well. The AI Port was certainly an interesting device when announced but there are a number of shortcomings to it that many are not aware of, the main being cost when scaling as well as capabilities.

While at point of announce this sounded like a very cool device that would allow most to move residential, small business or even commercial deployments into UI’s surveillance middleware, once released it was / is clear that their sole intention is to support 1 or 2 cams while instead you look to purchase their cams for your deployment. The downside there is that while UI cams have certainly come on in their design and feature support, they still do not hold a candle to pro camera manufacturers like Dahua, Hikvision, Axis etc.

So what are the shortcomings, pitfalls that I talk about. Let me list those below:
  • Cost. At $199 each and with limited camera support per AI Port (both now and in the future), this gets expensive, fast. Let me rundown some typical deployments with numbers:
    • 2K / 4 MP Camera Deployments First:
      • 8 x 2K (4MP) cameras would require 4 x AI Ports (once the AI Port finally supports 2 x 2K cameras in future update) at a cost of $199 each for a total of $800
      • 16 x 2K (4MP) cameras would require 8 x AI Ports (once the AI Port finally supports 2 x 2K cameras in future update) at a cost of $199 each for a total of $1600
    • 4K / 8 MP Camera Deployments First:
      • 8 x 4K (8MP) cameras would require 8 x AI Ports (only 1 x 4K camera is and will be supported per AI Port) at a cost of $199 each for a total of $1600
      • 16 x 4K (8MP) cameras would require 8 x AI Ports (only 1 x 4K camera is and will be supported per AI Port) at a cost of $199 each for a total of $3200
IF you can get past the cost of how these scale for your deployment there are the other limiting factors:
  • AI Port has limited support for number of cameras based on resolution of the camera itself + firmware support of AI Port.
  • Multisensor cameras with very wide aspect ratios are not compatible (180 degree cams etc are / will not be supported)
  • The AI Port supports resolutions up to 4K (3840 x 2160) and 30 FPS.
  • Currently limited to 1 ONVIF camera per AI port.
  • In time, UI is promising to expand to multi-camera support per AI port but with the following limitations:
    • ONVIF 4K: Only 1 camera
    • ONVIF 2K: Up to 2 cameras
    • ONVIF HD: Up to 3 cameras
    • Unifi Protect Cameras: Up to 5 cameras (no limit mentioned on what each camera resolution needs to be limited to but MIGHT be 4K on UI cams only)
In my opinion and experience there are MUCH better (and cheaper) options out there including Dahua's own AI NVR's or roll your own surveillance NVR using a VM + Frigate or Blue Iris or Milestone etc, for a fraction of the cost.

Hope that helps you and others. Let me know with any questions

I agree with 99% of what @Wildcat_1 is talking about with the above, Ubiquiti cameras are not the best and for the price, Dahua way better. The AI port looked a good buy at first but its too expensive for what it really achieves! And as mentioned by @Wildcat_1 its got too many sort comings! My only 1% I disagree is I think it was disigned to move people onto their Unifi platform and sell switches, gateways rather than cameras personally... Yes cameras would be nice, but for a big setup with 3rd party cameras you are not going to move to Ubiquiti cameras, rather take the chance with the AI Port and manage your 3rd party cameras through that with protect and all their switches and gateways.

Problems is they have promised 5+ 4+ 3+ 2+ cameras from one AI but as mentioned nothing has come through their channels. And broken down very well by @Wildcat_1, it becomes VERY expensive with its current shortcoming!