MS strikes again

J

JPmedia

Getting comfortable
Sep 11, 2024
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Florida
Typical Microsoft updates, implementing an update to add useless features while severely reducing functionality of the basic core design. While this really has nothing to do with security camera systems per se. Micro$oft is hell bent on taking a perfectly fine working operating system to add doo dads which are of no value to most users and those who use computers to, oh I don't know, actually get things done. Again, it's not broke, so let's fix it anyway

Perfect example, I print a lot of items for what I do, cover artwork, shipping labels, invoices, the normal business things that a media company prints. The latest update from MS on my Win10 laptop corrupts all printer drivers and apps and somehow makes Chrome not start. I had to do a repair install of Chrome and delete ALL printers and related apps and re-install all of them. While the printer issue has happened in the past, it has never affected the associated apps. And it has certainly never corrupted my Chrome installation, that's a new one. And when I started the re-installation of Chrome, a pop-up near the top right showed a balloon that said: Are you sure, MS edge uses a lot of the same technology as Chrome?

And because of MS update shenanigans, is why I will stick with NVR as the hub of my security cameras. I have enough IT duties to deal with, I spent 3.5 hours this morning fixing Microsoft's mess. Sorry for the rant
 
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I hate when that crap happens.

That is why most here running a PC based VMS turn off Microsoft updates for that computer.

Now some will argue that it just opens up the PC for hacking with a Microsoft vulnerability - not really if you only use it for the VMS and not surfing the web and exposing the computer to the risk of downloading or opening something from the internet.

We still have the updated antivirus and other protections on it that an NVR doesn't have, so at that point the operating system is updated about as often as an NVR firmware update, which isn't often LOL.

But one should have a good firewall system and minimize whichever system they employ to the internet.
 
wittaj said:
I hate when that crap happens.

That is why most here running a PC based VMS turn off Microsoft updates for that computer.

Now some will argue that it just opens up the PC for hacking with a Microsoft vulnerability - not really if you only use it for the VMS and not surfing the web and exposing the computer to the risk of downloading or opening something from the internet.

We still have the updated antivirus and other protections on it that an NVR doesn't have, so at that point the operating system is updated about as often as an NVR firmware update, which isn't often LOL.

But one should have a good firewall system and minimize whichever system they employ to the internet.
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I get it, but I use this laptop for just about everything not related to media editing. Some apps or programs will not run correctly or at all without the latest updates from MS.

And a Windows environment can sometimes get unstable for various reasons. Since an NVR has just one task, it can be more convenient to run. Me personally, I don't want to play IT tech, run my business and then add more IT fun with a computer running in a typically unstable operating environment. All of my media editing/creation machines run on Windows XP Pro (NOT connected to the outside world), which I feel is still the best version of Windows.
 
JPmedia said:
I get it, but I use this laptop for just about everything not related to media editing. Some apps or programs will not run correctly or at all without the latest updates from MS.

And a Windows environment can sometimes get unstable for various reasons. Since an NVR has just one task, it can be more convenient to run. Me personally, I don't want to play IT tech, run my business and then add more IT fun with a computer running in a typically unstable operating environment. All of my media editing/creation machines run on Windows XP Pro (NOT connected to the outside world), which I feel is still the best version of Windows.
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Oh I get it and why we update our working computers. I lose access to my printers every time Windows updates LOL.

My comment was more in reference to don't let a PC with Windows that has to be updated be the sole reason to not use a PC VMS LOL.

Most here have very stable PCs running BI because Windows updates are turned off and BI is only updated when they add a feature they want or need.
 
wittaj said:
My comment was more in reference to don't let a PC with Windows that has to be updated be the sole reason to not use a PC VMS LOL.

Most here have very stable PCs running BI because Windows updates are turned off and BI is only updated when they add a feature they want or need.
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Understood. A PC based system running BI has the advantage of features typically not available with the standard NVRs and the PC system can be fully customized and configurable. An NVR requires the manufacturer to provide features and updates, and NVRs have an EOL.

A PC based system can be a powerful tool; but can have a higher learning curve to implement features. Personally, for me, I want ease of use dedicated device. Others want the flexibility a PC based system provides. To each their own.
 
JPmedia said:
A PC based system can be a powerful tool; but can have a higher learning curve to implement features. Personally, for me, I want ease of use dedicated device. Others want the flexibility a PC based system provides. To each their own.
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I know exactly what you're saying, and this is one of my big head-butting issues with the BI experts here. My career was in computer R&D and I 'm able to eventually learn what to do. It's just not where I want to spend my time and energy. Not intending to restart the debate, it's just that NVR vs. BI is a great example. There are so many unintutive and unnecessary (IMO) settings that have to be made in BI that don't need even a thought with the NVR. The outfit I worked for in the 80s required all of the engineers to spend time on the customer support line. Hated it, but that's a different subject. One of the eye openers for me was that spreadsheet users called the PC their Visicalc Box.

I'm lucky with my laptop because all the windows-only apps I need on it will run under linux+wine. No more booting into win 10. Every time I did boot into win 10 with the network connected it started loading huge updates and a commercial for win 11. There are a bunch of OS type things that run smoother under linux. The one issue where I disagree with you is that I think the best windows version was 7, yet I occasionally have to bring up the XP box for a couple of old apps that won't run on 7.
 
tigerwillow1 said:
The one issue where I disagree with you is that I think the best windows version was 7, yet I occasionally have to bring up the XP box for a couple of old apps that won't run on 7.
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I don't have any experience with 7. I ran XP Pro on my general-purpose machine until 2019 when I was forced to use 10 due to 128-bit encryption for commerce.

I run Windows XP Pro on my editing and media machines because they support and run IEEE 1394A and B which I have many devices which use those interfaces
 
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tigerwillow1 said:
NVR 5216-4KS2 v1.0, Cisco POE switch
Cameras: T5442TM-AS (12x), T5842T-ZE, 4k-X, 541R-AS-S3, HFW-4231E-SE, T180, HFW4431M, SD4A425DB-HNY PTZ
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I'm just curious. By my count, in your signature it shows you having 19 cameras, are you running all of them on a 16 channel NVR? If so, how? I have the same NVR
 
JPmedia said:
your signature it shows you having 19 cameras, are you running all of them on a 16 channel NVR?
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I'm running only 16 cameras on the NVR. I have BI running in parallel, using all of them. I've been fighting and/or tinkering with BI for about a year and it's running fairly well now, and I'm spoiled wanting to keep both of them going, needlessly putting more carbon in the atmosphere. Each one has a few important to me features that the other doesn't, and I find myself viewing serious clips on one or the other depending on the circumstances. If I weren't such a cheapskate and having a wife to answer to, I'd get a 32 channel NVR and keep both systems going permanently
 
tigerwillow1 said:
I'm running only 16 cameras on the NVR. I have BI running in parallel, using all of them. I've been fighting and/or tinkering with BI for about a year and it's running fairly well now, and I'm spoiled wanting to keep both of them going, needlessly putting more carbon in the atmosphere. Each one has a few important to me features that the other doesn't, and I find myself viewing serious clips on one or the other depending on the circumstances. If I weren't such a cheapskate and having a wife to answer to, I'd get a 32 channel NVR and keep both systems going permanently
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As I mentioned, the PC based system is out for me, I'd rather a unit designed for the purpose. But I am finding myself wanting more cameras as time goes on and as I learn more about redundant coverage for identification purposes. Seems I am already near 16-channel limit. So, I either rework what I have to maximize coverage or think about updating the NVR equipment, maybe add a second NVR. I'm thrifty as well and also have a wife unit to answer to, so I can empathize with you ;)
 
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JPmedia said:
As I mentioned, the PC based system is out for me, I'd rather a unit designed for the purpose. But I am finding myself wanting more cameras as time goes on and as I learn more about redundant coverage for identification purposes. Seems I am already near 16-channel limit. So, I either rework what I have to maximize coverage or think about updating the NVR equipment, maybe add a second NVR. I'm thrifty as well and also have a wife unit to answer to, so I can empathize with you ;)
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You sound like someone that probably has computers laying around not being used? If so, spin a trial up of BI and be turned to the dark side LOL

Many here run an NVR and BI. We also like redundancy recording in addition to redundant coverage LOL.
 
wittaj said:
You sound like someone that probably has computers laying around not being used? If so, spin a trial up of BI and be turned to the dark side LOL

Many here run an NVR and BI. We also like redundancy recording in addition to redundant coverage LOL.
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I do have computer back-ups for my editing suites in storage, but they are for editing use only. Many of these machines are of the middle to late 2000's variety and finding parts for them can be quite fun (and expensive). Plus I don't think they would have the necessary specs to run BI.

It's very easy to let this "hobby" get out of control. At some point I need to level out before I get myself in trouble!
 
JPmedia said:
I do have computer back-ups for my editing suites in storage, but they are for editing use only. Many of these machines are of the middle to late 2000's variety and finding parts for them can be quite fun (and expensive). Plus I don't think they would have the necessary specs to run BI.

It's very easy to let this "hobby" get out of control. At some point I need to level out before I get myself in trouble!
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That is true - this has turned into a hobby for many of us :lmao:

Cheaper than a new golf driver over 2 months LOL
 
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