License plate capture on private driveway

T

TuckNTruck

Pulling my weight
Aug 16, 2022
54
107
NC
My neighbor is dealing with thru-traffic issues despite multiple "Private Driveway" and "No Trespassing" signs on his long gravel driveway which connects two public roads. People have also started dumping trash in the open area near his shed.

He asked me to install cameras on his property using my BI system (no access needed on his end) to capture plates and driver images. My house is 200' away, and my existing cameras catch activity on his property but not clear details. I plan to set up a P2P wireless bridge to his shed with a PoE switch for the new cameras.

Mounting cameras on the shed seems easiest. The barn doors open 180° so cameras would have to be mounted above the doors - roughly 8' high. The driveway is steep on both the left and right sides of the picture where I marked rough distances and that's about where the cameras would lose sight of the vehicles. Traffic is usually going slow - maybe 10 MPH max. No lighting nearby, so IR is necessary for nighttime capture.

I'm looking for camera recommendations—how many, focal length, fixed/variable, etc. I have several of Andy's cams, so I’m familiar with the ones y'all will probably recommend - just hoping for a consensus on which is best. My main concern is whether the mounting height and angle will allow for clear plate + driver images. A post installed directly across from the shed at the 33' mark with cameras pointed straight down the driveway in both directions could work but isn't ideal due to aesthetics and possibly interfering with my neighbor moving tractors and trailers around in that turn around area. I also wonder if I need a couple extra cameras for nighttime. I've got plenty of experience with setting up Andy's cams, but I've never tried to get one to capture plates. Just looking at my driveway cameras, most plate shots reflect the IR too much to see the lettering. I understand how to fix that, but then the rest of the image becomes unusable / too dark. Maybe 4 cameras? 2 set up for night plate capture and the other two to support them with a clearer image for car/driver details?

Any input would be appreciated!

CameraIdeas.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: mat200
Still on coffee #1 but a few thoughts

  • You are on to the right idea on LPR. For night capture of plates you have to dedicate a camera to just that. Once you decrease exposure time to limit blur and defeat IR whiteout, it will be very dark and you'll generally see just the plate and tail/headlights. You also need enough zoom such that the FOV won't be much bigger than the length of a car.
  • So yeah you'll need a second companion camera for Overview to better ID the vehicle
  • 8-10 ft should be fine here as you're not prioritizing the barn itself, close up face ID isnt an issue

Example- same vehicle roughly same spot. 110-120ft about 30 degrees
HOAEntrP2P_StreetView_main_20250314204025_@2.jpg HOAEntrP2P_EntTag_main_20250314204025_@2.jpg

- Generally the 5241-Z12 gives you the long lens to be able to reach out 150-180ft - its the most popular camera used here for plate capture
Andy's part# EmpireTech IPC-B52IR-Z12E-S2 1/2.8" CMOS 2MP 5mm–60mm Ultra Low Light
  • Angle is important so I'm not sure the barn works, you'll be limiting your area to capture (let alone trees etc) but if you can keep it to less than 30 degrees you'll be fine
  • Then yeah 2 more cameras to capture Overview and help ID the car. Faces/driver detail will be very limited at night, using IR (no colors anyway), I wouldnt focus on that as you'll likely be disappointed and find it a wasted effort.
The 5442 series varifocal, maybe even the Z4 model, would give you some good options for vehicle overview. Bullets give you much more available IR with 2x the number of LEDs and I think better depth
empiretech01.com

EmpireTech IPC-B54IR-ZE-S3 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP IR 2.7mm–12mm Vari-focal Bu

4MP 1/1.8" CMOS image sensor Built-in IR LED, the max. illumination distance is 60 m Deep learning algorithm Built-in MIC IP67 and IK10 protection SMD 3.0
empiretech01.com empiretech01.com
empiretech01.com

EmpireTech 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP IR Vari-focal Bullet Network Camera IPC-B54IR-Z4E-S3

4MP 1/1.8" CMOS image sensor Built-in IR LED, the max. illumination distance is 120 m Deep learning algorithm Supports max. 512 GB Micro SD card Built-in MIC IP67 and IK10 protection SMD 3.0
empiretech01.com empiretech01.com
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Clark Griswald, mat200 and TuckNTruck
+1 to all of above.

And yeah forget getting images of the driver - it is way too difficult even under ideal conditions. You may catch an occasional, but it is pretty difficult.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mat200 and TuckNTruck
bigredfish said:
Still on coffee #1 but a few thoughts

  • You are on to the right idea on LPR. For night capture of plates you have to dedicate a camera to just that. Once you decrease exposure time to limit blur and defeat IR whiteout, it will be very dark and you'll generally see just the plate and tail/headlights. You also need enough zoom such that the FOV won't be much bigger than the length of a car.
  • So yeah you'll need a second companion camera for Overview to better ID the vehicle
  • 8-10 ft should be fine here as you're not prioritizing the barn itself, close up face ID isnt an issue
- Generally the 5241-Z12 gives you the long lens to be able to reach out 150-180ft - its the most popular camera used here for plate capture
Andy's part# EmpireTech IPC-B52IR-Z12E-S2 1/2.8" CMOS 2MP 5mm–60mm Ultra Low Light
  • Angle is important so I'm not sure the barn works, you'll be limiting your area to capture (let alone trees etc) but if you can keep it to less than 30 degrees you'll be fine
  • Then yeah 2 more cameras to capture Overview and help ID the car. Faces/driver detail will be very limited at night, using IR (no colors anyway), I wouldnt focus on that as you'll likely be disappointed and find it a wasted effort.
The 5442 series varifocal, maybe even the Z4 model, would give you some good options for vehicle overview. Bullets give you much more available IR with 2x the number of LEDs and I think better depth
empiretech01.com

EmpireTech IPC-B54IR-ZE-S3 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP IR 2.7mm–12mm Vari-focal Bu

4MP 1/1.8" CMOS image sensor Built-in IR LED, the max. illumination distance is 60 m Deep learning algorithm Built-in MIC IP67 and IK10 protection SMD 3.0
empiretech01.com empiretech01.com
empiretech01.com

EmpireTech 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP IR Vari-focal Bullet Network Camera IPC-B54IR-Z4E-S3

4MP 1/1.8" CMOS image sensor Built-in IR LED, the max. illumination distance is 120 m Deep learning algorithm Supports max. 512 GB Micro SD card Built-in MIC IP67 and IK10 protection SMD 3.0
empiretech01.com empiretech01.com
Click to expand...
Yep, pretty much what I was thinking on all of the above. I think he'd really like to avoid having a couple bullet cams mounted on his building due to size/appearance. Is there a turret with similar specs I could use? If IR is the primary reason to go with a bullet, I'd rather add an IR illuminator and go with a turret if one with adequate specs exists.


wittaj said:
+1 to all of above.

And yeah forget getting images of the driver - it is way too difficult even under ideal conditions. You may catch an occasional, but it is pretty difficult.
Click to expand...
I went out to my driveway last night to experiment with my cams and you're right. Best I can hope for consistently is a plate capture and good shot of the car make/model. Thinking about the cost and trying to avoid putting up 4 or more cameras to do all I want to do, I think that maybe I could use two cameras total - one pointed down the driveway in each direction primarily for LPR and I could set my 25x PTZ at my house up to zoom in on the area anytime one of the LPR cams gets triggered. I wonder if it's possible for the LPR to call the PTZ to focus on the general area and then have a motion rule take over to make it track the vehicle until it leaves the frame....Distance is only about 200', so my PTZ could easily get a good ID of the vehicle.

wpiman said:
I would honestly spend the resources on a gate or two.
Click to expand...
Yeah, best solution for sure but costly (no power at the entrance to either end of the driveway) and adds some hassle my neighbor doesn't want. We assume that most of the vehicles are locals or vacationers/renters using the driveway as a shortcut to the other side of the neighborhood, so if we can ID the cars, we can probably find them and have a talk with them or get LE involved if it continues to be a problem.
 
No there is no Turret with the Z12 distance lens. Also Bullets add almost 2X the IR. ON a barn in BFE I can't see how it would make too much aesthetic difference?

yes the LPR cams could call the PTZ to a Preset spot. From there, the PTZ would need to have IVS rules in that spot to trigger tracking. Its not as simple as it sounds as the object could well leave the PTZ view/Preset before the PTZ gets there

Waste of time IMHO. I'd do the gates
 
  • Like
Reactions: mat200 and wpiman
Agree the barn is middle of nowhere - who would complain about seeing the cameras LOL. Paint them to match.

As said, a turret will not hit that distance. Now if you ran a cable with a post to right next to this pathway, then you could use a turret.

Here is the thread on how to use a fixed cam as a spotter for either either BI or an NVR:


wittaj

Thread 'Using Spotter Cameras to direct a PTZ where to look in an NVR or Blue Iris and setting a spotter cam as a priority in Blue Iris'

We get this question from time to time, so I thought with the recent addition to BI, it made sense to have a thread we can point to.

Previously in BI, if you had more than one spotter cam, you could not make one a priority, so if spotter cam #1 triggered the PTZ and it starts tracking and spotter cam #2 is triggered, it would then take the PTZ off of spotter cam #1 tracking and move to the preset for spotter cam #2.

Now with BI 5.5.6.0, you can go into the PTZ tab in the Camera setttings and go to the preset that you want to have priority and check the "cancel alerts when the camera is...
  • Like
  • Love
 
  • Like
Reactions: Snapper30 and mat200
TuckNTruck said:
I think he'd really like to avoid having a couple bullet cams mounted on his building due to size/appearance.
Click to expand...
I have 2 of the B52IR Bullet cameras in black for LPR and they pretty much go un-noticed. Of course, it will depend on the surroundings it's in to be inobtrusive
 
There is also a legal aspect to this. If people cut across enough, they can argue it is a right of way. Adding gates and even closing them part of the time ensures this won't happen.

You can also get solar powered control pretty cheap these days.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SIR VEYOR and anotherone
++++ With everyone stating gates. They don't need to be powered gates, get something along the likes of cattle gates. Lock them up, put a HUGE sign on stating PRIVATE, violators will be prosecuted to the extent of law, etc etc...

There are all kinds of legal ramifications of people using a private driveway as a throughway. In other words, could be a HUGE pain in the rear for the homeowner if someone gets hurt on that private driveway. Yes, common sense, but obviously those using that driveway don't have any common sense.

Put the gates up, put up cameras, and report every single vehicle to law enforcement for trespassing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: looney2ns, SIR VEYOR and TuckNTruck
Definitely gates for access control. You can say goodbye to your rights if they can prove unfettered access for over a year in some places.

Just lock the gates at one end and use the other for a week at a time to start. And lock both ends Fri AM to Mon AM. People are creatures of habit and convenience.

Trail cams on the gate posts or hidden in the post you’d chain the open gate to. Easy plate captures, no power needed, and after a few times of reversing and leaving the other way, it’ll stop most. Feel free to run electric fencing (solar is an option), along the driveway for a ways around to make turning easy not an option.

And you can have a word with the people backing around.

Lowest cost solution with minimal long term effort by landowner and still have options to charge. Decent chance of faces as well. Trail cams are great in a “kill box” zone.

Add a few targets that look ranged in from the house…
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: wpiman, Snapper30 and bigredfish
JPmedia said:
Don't you think that might scare'em off? :winktongue:
Click to expand...
Well, sounds like the visitors are mostly the unsociable type anyways. Won’t stop a Jehova’s Witness from trying to spread the word, but for most na’er do wells be just fine.

And use combination padlock instead of a keyed alike set. Easier for wanted guests or multiple landowner vehicles.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Snapper30 and bigredfish
Has your neighbor contacted the local LE/city hall about the trespassing and garbage? They may have suggestions or advice regarding signs and specific wording, especially what LE can/will enforce. Naturally, results will vary depending on the type of LE and their level of concern, but at least you will have a better idea of how helpful LE might be.

You can sink two posts with a chain between them for an effective 'gate'. Maybe add a sign or reflector on the chain for better visibility at night if you're feeling generous.
 
TuckNTruck said:
We assume that most of the vehicles are locals or vacationers/renters using the driveway as a shortcut to the other side of the neighborhood,
Click to expand...
Another thought is to check with map companies and see if they consider your neighbors driveway as a public road.

I recall a couple threads on here about messed up maps and directions creating issues for home and property owners. One guy had Amazon vehicles driving across his lawn to get to the next road because the Amazon system had an error. The drivers would then hit a fence or trees and have to drive back across his lawn.
 
  • Like
  • Wow
Reactions: samplenhold and wpiman
Snapper30 said:
Has your neighbor contacted the local LE/city hall about the trespassing and garbage? They may have suggestions or advice regarding signs and specific wording, especially what LE can/will enforce. Naturally, results will vary depending on the type of LE and their level of concern, but at least you will have a better idea of how helpful LE might be.

You can sink two posts with a chain between them for an effective 'gate'. Maybe add a sign or reflector on the chain for better visibility at night if you're feeling generous.
Click to expand...

And with a chain, you can put multiple locks in as “links”. So if there is more than one group needing access, they all get their own lock and get added in. Some daisy chain the locks, some keep a few feet between them since some people don’t understand how to interconnect them and miss a lock so those ones can’t open the chain/gate anymore.

Quick, easy cheap solution is to start parking the trailers down where access is choked down.

But 4 wooden fence posts, 50’ of chain, and trail cams anywhere in those wooded areas should be under $200 and 2-3 hours to do. Hang survey flagging ($3/roll) or something off the chain for added visibility. Can probably just hook the chain and not lock anything to give most the message. Locks after a week or so. And locks starting the weekend before Memorial Day weekend.

Don't need to catch them at the gate.

Bonus is some trail cams are wifi and cellular capable. Send alerts and photos to phones or email real-time. So early warning system to roll the tractor across the road by the shed maybe. If you know any hunters, they might already have them and will happily loan them. Especially if you hint at a few nice bucks they can take this year.

Sorry for posting here so much, but I’m not running the high cost systems like most here do; and work shows me a lot of travel deterrent methods. Even had farmers run their fencer through their barbed wire gate. And modern fencers have a lot more snap than they used to.
 
  • Like
Reactions: samplenhold
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom