Cam AI & BI motion detection selection and interaction

[Raylo32]

So, I am still having some trouble with one of my outdoor scenes, waving tree shadows and lights coming on and off in the windows throwing some false detects. I haven't yet had time to go back and try CPAI... one of these days.

My questions:

1. If I want to use the camera AI via BI I would check get onviv alerts. But then, do I also need to have the BI motion detection enabled and/or object detection turned on or not for BI to receive and act on them? I'd rather work it through BI rather than the cam's e-mail function because that is too hard to manage remotely.

2. If the BI motion detection needs to be on to pass through the cam's AI alerts, does it ALSO mean that BI's native motion detection functions are still active? Or are they bypassed?

Reason I ask is that I have the cam AI setup and "get onviv alerts" checked, but I am still getting these nuisance generic motion detect alerts.

 

[wittaj]

You do not need BI motion checked to use the camera AI.

As I mentioned to you in your other thread, you will get an alert for however you set the camera up to be triggered, whether that is BI motion or camera AI or both.

Don't waste your time with CPAI, between issues and now is it going to be maintained, better off to use the camera AI.

 

[Raylo32]

OK... so then if BI motion detect IS turned on you get both that and from the cam AI via onviv. That makes sense with what I am seeing.

So, if I have all the BI motion services off and "get onviv alerts" checked in the server, BI will receive and pass those along. But then there seems to be no way in the app to turn this off remotely if I need to. I'd have to remote desktop into the server to uncheck "get onviv alerts"?

 

[Mike A.]

I don’t turn mine on and off much but I think the alerts and notifications are independent of the way triggered and work the same way. There’s a switch in the app’s individual cam settings to turn on/off notifications and/or you could set up separate profiles and switch that.

 

[Raylo32]

The switch in the app merely turns the BI motion detector on or of, not "alerts" in general. If you change it there, it also changes it on the server. The strange thing is that there are separate switches in the app to turn object detection and zones/hotspots on or off and these stay on even when you switch motion detection off. But in the server you can't even access these settings to turn them on unless the motion detector is on. Makes no sense.

I have the Dahua cam's AI set to make human IVS tripwire alerts via e-mail and that works fine... except it does it bidirectionally when I have specified one direction only. But I have yet to be able to get those alerts to trigger via BI, even with all the ONVIV settings enabled. LOL. Maybe I am missing something somewhere. This stuff is not set up very logically at all.

So my choices for this cam appear to be living with some false alerts using the BI motion settings or having to get the alerts from that cam natively via e-mail. Oh, well. That might be the way to go. I need to see how that performs with the waving tree shadows... although I am not sure today will be windy enough for a good test. The main downside to this setup is that when I need to go outside to work in that area I'd have to go into the cam's UI to turn off the alerts. PITA.

I don’t turn mine on and off much but I think the alerts and notifications are independent of the way triggered and work the same way. There’s a switch in the app’s individual cam settings to turn on/off notifications and/or you could set up separate profiles and switch that.

 

[Mike A.]

There's also a switch for Push notifications under each camera in the app. The events still will be triggered but you won't be bugged with notifications. And as I said you should be able to turn things on/off using profiles and can switch that easily in the app.

Not sure why you wouldn't be getting ONVIF events with the other. Post some screen shots and maybe someone can help get it working.

 

[wittaj]

As I have said, the alerts section of BI doesn't care whether the camera is triggered by BI motion or camera AI - it simply sends out alerts based on how it is being told to send an alert.

I do not turn BI motion off or on in the app.

I do not use the camera GUI to send me an email.

Most of my cameras, especially the ones that alert me, are from camera AI only.


Let's back up a bit:

Go into the camera GUI and set up smart plan with IVS, then go to the IVS screen and draw IVS rules (tripwire or intrusion box) and then select the AI you want it to trigger on (human or vehicle).

Make sure MD and SMD are turned off in the camera.

Then in BI, there are a few places you need to set this up in BI (assuming you already set up the IVS rules in the camera GUI):

In Camera configure setting check the box "Get ONVIF triggers".



Hit Find/Inspect on the camera setting to pull the coding for the triggers.

Go into Motion Setting and select the "Cameras digital input" box OR "ONVIF/CAMERA EVENTS" based on which BI version you have. Turn off BI Motion Detection if you don't want to use it:





On the Alerts tab uncheck the Motions Zones tab (those are alerting you to any BI motion in those areas in Zones A thru H) and select ONVIF and External check boxes.



On the "On alert..." actions, select how you want to be alerted (email, push, SMS, etc.)

 

[jaydeel]

So, if I have all the BI motion services off and "get onviv alerts" checked in the server, BI will receive and pass those along. But then there seems to be no way in the app to turn this off remotely if I need to. I'd have to remote desktop into the server to uncheck "get onviv alerts"?

You can Pause the camera from the App (gear icon).

And in the desktop application, configure Pause to disable Alerts.

 

[wittaj]

And you can create a profile to disable alerts as well.

Lot's of opportunities that are better than going in to each camera and unchecking the motion detection boxes each time.

 

[Raylo32]

Thatnks for the detailed setup info. It's too bad BI doesn't include a one button config button to make these settings for this, since it seems like a fairly common scenario. The cam IVS has already been set up for human detection over tripwires and is working fine via e-mail alerts. I also did everything in your list here, I believe, except the part about "find/inspect camera triggers". I'll have to look into that when I get the time but I didn't recall seeign that anywhere. In video configuration mine says the onviv source is Videosource_1 or somesuch. No button to find or inspect. For now I'll just use the native cam e-mails... which hopefully will be few and far between.

Edit: I found the find and inspect button. Clicked it and it ran the script. None of the data fields changed.

As I have said, the alerts section of BI doesn't care whether the camera is triggered by BI motion or camera AI - it simply sends out alerts based on how it is being told to send an alert.

I do not turn BI motion off or on in the app.

I do not use the camera GUI to send me an email.

Most of my cameras, especially the ones that alert me, are from camera AI only.


Let's back up a bit:

Go into the camera GUI and set up smart plan with IVS, then go to the IVS screen and draw IVS rules (tripwire or intrusion box) and then select the AI you want it to trigger on (human or vehicle).

Make sure MD and SMD are turned off in the camera.

Then in BI, there are a few places you need to set this up in BI (assuming you already set up the IVS rules in the camera GUI):

In Camera configure setting check the box "Get ONVIF triggers".

View attachment 205714

Hit Find/Inspect on the camera setting to pull the coding for the triggers.

Go into Motion Setting and select the "Cameras digital input" box OR "ONVIF/CAMERA EVENTS" based on which BI version you have. Turn off BI Motion Detection if you don't want to use it:

View attachment 205715



On the Alerts tab uncheck the Motions Zones tab (those are alerting you to any BI motion in those areas in Zones A thru H) and select ONVIF and External check boxes.

View attachment 205716

On the "On alert..." actions, select how you want to be alerted (email, push, SMS, etc.)

 

[wittaj]

None of the data fields change, it just tells BI to be listening for those. We have seen situations where someone made a change to the IVS rules and they didn't follow over until the find/inspect was done again.

 

[Raylo32]

I did actually find an issue and I don't totally understand it. The find/inspect dialog had a password invalid error, which is odd since the cam has been connected and streaming in BI forever. I checked the password and it had a case error in one character and this time the find/inspect did find more cam specific info and changed the onviv source to box to 0000. So, now maybe this will work. I won't know until I can test it. But it seems odd that BI would connect and stream the cam with a password case error? IDK about that.

 

[wittaj]

These devices keep users and ONVIF users as separate and if the password doesn't match in the ONVIF manager list (which happens frequently when people start changing passwords or use the ConfigTool), then the cameras ONVIF features cannot be "seen", yet the video can still be seen. Or sometimes the firmware just goes wonky, which sounds like the case here.

So it would allow the video to be seen, but not accept the ONVIF triggers.

Sometimes just fixing the password like you did fixes it, sometimes people have to go to the ONVIF USER tab and create a user/pw for ONVIF features.

 

[Raylo32]

Hey, that did the trick! Alerts through BI now. I need to go back into the cam UI and turn off the e-mails. But it is truly strange because I had to use the password with the lower case letter to get back into the UI. Whereas the find/inspect said that was invalid and needed that letter to be upper case. <SMH>. I don't know what this is all about but it is all working... for now. Thanks for the assist!

 

[Raylo32]

I also took your suggestion to create a couple of profiles, one each to turn off alerts for each exterior cam when I need to be out there working... or if they start firing off excessive alerts. Easy peasy. The other thing I learnt in this exercise is that remote desktop is good at home, too, not just when traveling. I have my BI PC in a spot without a desk and with a Bluetooth keyboard. Awkward at best, which is partly why I have neglected it. Turns out now that the BI PC CPU is unburdened RD works fantastic from my M2 MacBook Air. So much easier using that at the kitchen table than working on the BI PC natively.

And the rear deck cam set to IVS tripwire human detection only and alerting via BI was quiet last night. No false alerts from the lights or raccoons. Yay!