Camera Recommendation and Placement for Hoodies

[camb]

How have you guys solved for people being able to evade cameras with the use of hoodies? I guess I could mount another camera facing upwards, but it isn't very aesthetically pleasing and could be vandalized more easily.

Thanks!

 

[Q™]

I put up a sign: "No Hoodies Allowed!"

 

[Kawboy12R]

Mount the cams close to face height or a hair under and have additional IR lighting also shining so it won't throw obscuring shadows. Make sure the lenses are long enough to put lots of pixels on target. 100 pixels per foot or higher. Ipvm.com/calculator and plug in different camera specs until you get what you need. If you're considering IMX322 or other cams with the 1/2.8" sensor, use 1/2.7" with the calculator to get the most representative values. The math for 1/2.8" has been wrong on the calculator a while and wasn't fixed the last I checked. I reported it ages ago but have had no response.

 

[nayr]

not much you can do, its alot of effort and for little gain.. I had guys come through this year with bandanna's on their faces.. and once I even seen a guy with a reflective hoodie that really fucked up the cameras.. never gona win this arms race really..

something to get there attention and make em look into the camera would be a good start, perhaps a strobe light that's triggered via LineCross/Intrusion detection or a real motion sensor.. with a schedule to go off only late at night.. thats what I've been thinking about.

 

[camb]

thanks for the input! I appreciate it.

 

[frankred]

Interesting idea @nayr . Would the strobe mess with the camera image? Maybe another type of light would be better. Maybe a buzzer... Idk, but you are onto something.

 

[nayr]

it shouldn't if the strobe was behind the camera or otherwise out of FOV, and I guess it may depend on how powerful it was..

I know seeing cherries and berries when I am completely law abiding gets my attention and makes me nervous.. I can only imagine what it'd do to some people's pants when they sneaking around late at night and just need one more encounter with law for some serious shit..

 

[tangent]

Note that security strobes for alarm systems and such only flash about once a second. So they shouldn't be too bad on cam.

 

[Q™]

...something to get there attention and make em look into the camera would be a good start, perhaps a strobe light that's triggered via LineCross/Intrusion detection or a real motion sensor.. with a schedule to go off only late at night.. thats what I've been thinking about.

How about this, triggered by switch or line cross, and mounted immediately above the camera that captures their face?

How could one not look at this when it gets fired?

 

[PSPCommOp]

What kind of application are you looking for? I've noticed that a few of the local gas station/convenience stores in my area have taken to using domes or mini domes on the countertops near the register. they are obviously angled to where the customer would stand to interact with the person behind the register. Two of the places that have had robberies actually have the countertops cut out a bit and they try and put some slim jims and candy boxes and random other items to try and conceal the fact that they are there. They've worked well, identified one robbery suspect and one with a counterfeit $20 in the last 2-3 months. These facilities also have 2-3 other cameras behind the register, one of a more wide angle view of the store, one angled directly at the door that's about shoulder level with customers as they enter (possibly 6mm lenses) and some I've seen have a third camera on the ceiling angled down at the register.

Or just keep coffee behind the counter and go all Brad Hamilton on anyone giving you an issue.

 

[nayr]

Interesting idea @nayr . Would the strobe mess with the camera image? Maybe another type of light would be better. Maybe a buzzer... Idk, but you are onto something.

just hooked a strobe up to alarm out, and setup linecross coming down sidewalk for a human sized object.. then set it up to activate the alarm output for 10s between midnight and 5am when it's triggered.

so far it seems to work in testing, will let you know if it helps getting faces when something happens.. with my luck it wont take long

 

[PSPCommOp]

just hooked a strobe up to alarm out, and setup linecross coming down sidewalk for a human sized object.. then set it up to activate the alarm output for 10s between midnight and 5am when it's triggered.

so far it seems to work in testing, will let you know if it helps getting faces when something happens.. with my luck it wont take long

How does the strobe work for the cameras night vision? Does it affect the sensor and then in turn the quality of the video?


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[nayr]

I'll post a sample video tonight after it gets dark.. but as you can see the lens is infront of the strobe so it cannot directly hit the sensor.. it must reflect off something, and the only thing it can reflect off of is what's in frame 35ft away.. so I expect no issue, you might not even be able to tell if its on or not.. we'll see in a few hours

 

[PSPCommOp]

I'll post a sample video tonight after it gets dark.. but as you can see the lens is infront of the strobe so it cannot directly hit the sensor.. it must reflect off something, and the only thing it can reflect off of is what's in frame 35ft away.. so I expect no issue, you might not even be able to tell if its on or not.. we'll see in a few hours

Oh no I didn't mean hit the sensor direct I meant does it light the scene up enough to ruin the picture. Our new camera system at work doesn't play well with the boiler and fire alarms that flash like crazy when activated that's why I was wondering.

But ya please share I'm curious how it'll look.



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[nayr]

this partictular one has multiple strobe settings, you just hook a momentary switch up between positive and a trigger wire and it'll cycle through them all, and stay on it even if powered down.. Ive got a more aggressive strobe now but I could turn it into a rotating one that is alot slower and wouldent screw with it even if it was in an enclosed space like your boiler room.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00T23YAUC/r

I've got a 12mm lens on this camera, the sidewalk is 35ft away where its looking.. but that is something to consider if putting one of these up, reflections are a camera's enemy and those fire alarm strobes are quite brutal.

*edit*
yeah the strobe has no visible impact at night

 

[CaliGirl]

this partictular one has multiple strobe settings, you just hook a momentary switch up between positive and a trigger wire and it'll cycle through them all, and stay on it even if powered down.. Ive got a more aggressive strobe now but I could turn it into a rotating one that is alot slower and wouldent screw with it even if it was in an enclosed space like your boiler room.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00T23YAUC/r

I've got a 12mm lens on this camera, the sidewalk is 35ft away where its looking.. but that is something to consider if putting one of these up, reflections are a camera's enemy and those fire alarm strobes are quite brutal.

*edit*
yeah the strobe has no visible impact at night

I was just looking at this exact beacon last week!!! I wanted to add one to a tree so that I could trigger it if there was an authorized person walking the property. I was just unsure about how to get 12v power to it. Can you run another POE ethernet cable to it from the NVR and drop the voltage at the strobe?

 

[nayr]

yeah I am using this device: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00M5U4OFA and a 4 way splitter, one's going to camera, one's going to microphone, one's going to IR cannon and the other is cut and wire nutted to the strobe light and soon here a motion sensor on the input.. its pulling 15W with all of it.

I had an alarm out and alarm ground wires on the camera.. I took the positive from the splitter went into positive for the strobe, then took negative from the strobe into alarm out, then alarm ground to ground from splitter.. clear enough? I just took the wire nut off the positive and made contact to switch patterns, when I solder this all up I'll put a little momentary switch inline w/the selector.. my junction box is big enough for all this crap.

beware this partictular strobe is ment for horizontal mounting.. if you look at it from the top, or in my case bottom you wont see the led's as they go around the sides.. you'll want a bulb based one for omnidirectional or mount this on the underside of a platform like I did.

also gDMSS and SmartPSS wont activate it through my NVR, it'll only flip the NVR's alarm outputs.. I setup a virtual trigger in my automation system to turn on/off the strobe, if you want to turn it on manually you'll have to bypass the NVR and connect directly to the camera with the app.. and that might not be doable with a PoE NVR.. so you might have to wire it up to the NVR if you want to manually activate it easily.

 

[nayr]

I have an old one of these laying about from a long time ago: https://www.amazon.com/StealthSwitch-Pro-USB-Foot-Pedal/dp/B00MI6K77K

just plugged it into my mac, setup an appleScript to call the documented dahua API @ http://camera-name/cgi-bin/configManager.cgi?action=setConfig&AlarmOut[0].Mode=1 to turn it on and 0 to turn it off.

then setup a hotkey for that foot switch to call the appleScript and presto! When I'm sitting at my computer hacking away late at night and someone's fucking with my stuff.. tap button and laugh