Camera selection/advice - Hidden porch cam

[jrich523]

I am looking to get a cam that I can hide some where under the porch or stairs. The goal is to catch anyone trying to steal packages or to check for visitors. The reason I'd like it below aiming up is because most people trying to steal packages wear a hat and look down. I'd like it POE since it will be the easiest way to power it. Also I cant imagine it needs more than like 10 ft of good clarity for faces. Obviously able to withstand weather. I nice housing, something designed to be looking up so as to help prevent any build up on the lens area, if not i can build something around it though.

thought/suggestions?

thanks guys!

 

[Del Boy]

Hikvision DS-2CD2542FWD-I. Exactly how I use mine.

 

[jrich523]

Awesome, so is a 'vandal cam' or 'mini dome' the term for such a thing?

Also would you mind posting a pic of how you have yours setup? Curious where you put it and how hidden it seems.
It looks fairly small 4 by 4 inch and 2 inch tall, the white however might standout a good deal but i suppose i could paint that since i have to paint the porch anyways.

When i google for it, it shows a few models, the one you posted is 4MP which are roughly $180 but I've found some 3MP (older version i assume) for roughly $115. (http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/121758971860?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true)

Also as i started to poke down that road i found some "pinhole" cameras, have yet to find something just right, but is that another viable direction?

Thanks

 

[jrich523]

Here is my porch (clearly needs to be painted )

based on the way people walk up i considered using a pinhole on the risers of the stairs.

for the cam you recommended im not sure where I would put that, its fairly small but im not sure there is a good angle.

 

[Del Boy]

What's a vandal cam? It's a mini dome.

If you want hidden then a pinhole camera but it won't be weather resistant.

Mine's not hidden. I'm not James Bond. The camera is a deterrent not a honey trap.

 

[jrich523]

vandal cam was just listed in one of the titles when i searched for the cam you listed. which is why i wanted to check if that was normal or someone elses randomness... apparently randomness, thanks

 

[nayr]

its not worth hiding, just get a good mini wedge dome and put it at chest height.. cameras are so ubiquitous few people's brains actually processes there presence.

I posted a video of a shooting in my neighborhood, a neighbor came over and talked to me about it on my front steps.. and asked me where the camera was, so I pointed right above me in plain sight..

Check out this camera for your porch: https://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php/9163-Dahua-Mini-Black-Face-PTZ-(SD29204S-GN)

I just got a nice big wicker box, slapped it on my front porch and put a sign on it saying: please hide parcels inside.

 

[tangent]

An advantage to not hiding it is you might deter some package thefts. You could always put up a second more hidden camera or one that gets their face when they turn around to leave your porch.

 

[jrich523]

Hmm good points. To the left of the door (french doors) I could toss a cam there, its a tight corner that could make it visible but not obvious, however its the right side of the door thats used, so provided it gets a good view of people coming up the steps it should cut it...

the white trim would help the HikVision blend in a bit so it doesnt look odd. Also its 7 inch wide so the 4inch box would work well there. Probably about 4 ft up so that its more level with people before they walk up the steps and its where the delivery guy drops packages so if anyone were to grab them, they would have to get right in front of the cam. they could obviously block that view easily but they probably wont notice it until after its snapped a pic of them walking up the steps


@nayr based on the stories you've told it sounds like you live in a really rough neighborhood, but i think capturing a shooting on cam is taking the cake for stories lol

 

[jrich523]

so i was just thinking about this, if im not going to attempt to hide it at all, perhaps a door bell camera is the way to go. There must be one out there that is POE and zwave (using Domoticz for my home automation and Blue Iris for video)

 

[tangent]

...perhaps a door bell camera is the way to go. There must be one out there that is POE and zwave (using Domoticz for my home automation and Blue Iris for video)

Negative. There are some PoE devices but they're mostly underwhelming or overpriced.

Just stick up a wedge or mini dome (note wireless versions lake poe)
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/DAHUA-4MP-HD-Network-Vandal-proof-IR-Wedge-Dome-Camera-Original-English-Version-without-Logo-IPC/32602617760.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_7,searchweb201602_3_10017_507,searchweb201603_7&btsid=529d56e7-8a8d-48ef-95e4-8ea255bf9992
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/DS-2CD2542FWD-IS-4MP-Mini-Dome-CCTV-Camera-POE-WDR-H-264-wifi-P2P-mini-ip/32551812559.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_0,searchweb201602_3_10017_507,searchweb201603_11&btsid=1546838b-c1b7-40fa-ac69-89345ec7ccc1

You could paint the white part of the camera to match your wall and put it just to the side of the white trim. I think that might be a little more subtle.

 

[jrich523]

those look like pretty good options and basically the two best options i could find.

any particular reason you're against the doorbell/video intercom solution?

 

[tangent]

those look like pretty good options and basically the two best options i could find.

any particular reason you're against the doorbell/video intercom solution?

i'm not against them, I just haven't found a product I like at a price point I like. See this thread: https://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php/3470-Wifi-Doorbell

 

[Del Boy]

I'd get a proper camera and a doorbell if I wanted a video doorbell. The proper camera for security and the video doorbell well... as a video doorbell.

DS-2CD2542FWD-I is the one I use and it's pretty much perfect. Except the night-vision is terrible, that's why this is a porch camera and not a front of house covering camera.

 

[jrich523]

I guess that was the problem i was having, i found some half way decent stuff, but the biggest problem was the stuff i found that was POE, looked ok and had the functions (doorbell, 2 way audio, camera with IR) most were missing the ability to stream that feed to blue iris (at least, that was the impression i got when reading about them)

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Wireless-Wifi-Video-Door-Phone-doorbell-Camera-Intercom-Phone-Control-IP-Video-Door-Phone-System/32378378159.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.10.veaGwq&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_8,searchweb201602_5_10037_10017_507_10032,searchweb201603_1&btsid=70b554f0-a88f-48ea-a858-0e5497cc5c3c

that for example, would be a good solution, but "IP Camera Interface: No" makes me slightly worried.. also the camera itself doesnt seem horribly awesome.

As far as the security aspect, I have another camera (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-Sell-2016-New-Arrival-Rotary-Bullet-PTZ-Camera-with-Onvif-1080P-MINI-PTZ-IP-Camera/32583148851.html) that will be mounted at the edge of the driveway and walkway, it will capture any cars pulling down our road or in to our driveway. It will be in a bad spot to capture someones face, which is why i wanted something on the porch to grab a pic of their face.

 

[tangent]

I guess that was the problem i was having, i found some half way decent stuff, but the biggest problem was the stuff i found that was POE, looked ok and had the functions (doorbell, 2 way audio, camera with IR) most were missing the ability to stream that feed to blue iris (at least, that was the impression i got when reading about them)

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Wireless-Wifi-Video-Door-Phone-doorbell-Camera-Intercom-Phone-Control-IP-Video-Door-Phone-System/32378378159.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.10.veaGwq&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_8,searchweb201602_5_10037_10017_507_10032,searchweb201603_1&btsid=70b554f0-a88f-48ea-a858-0e5497cc5c3c

that for example, would be a good solution, but "IP Camera Interface: No" makes me slightly worried.. also the camera itself doesnt seem horribly awesome.

There is at least an option to hook it up with ethernet, but it's a 0.3mp / 420tvl camera even up close that's pretty low res for id. The chinese products that try to work like ring are going to depend on their apps and servers and have some security issues too.

There are things like this: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-dahua-news-Villa-Outdoor-Station-VTO6100C/32524003651.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_10,searchweb201602_2_10017_507,searchweb201603_1&btsid=1a6b46dc-6f65-4f0b-81f3-3ff7b01f3d8d (note not PoE)
see other threads here. But functionality is limited and some features require the indoor station.

There are some better products, they just cost >$350 and a doorbell intercom isn't worth that much to me.

 

[SyconsciousAu]

its not worth hiding,

I agree. You are better off with a visible camera

cameras are so ubiquitous few people's brains actually processes there presence.

Or by the time they do it is too late. I've had the same experience with a neighbour just not seeing the cameras that were very obvious.

just get a good mini wedge dome and put it at chest height..

Ive seen some of these deployed with the cover painted to match the surface behind. They are very discreet.
@jrich523 have you considered something like this?

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/DAHUA-4MP-WDR-Network-Vandalproof-IR-Wedge-Dome-Camera-IP67-Original-English-Version-without-Logo-IPC/1114243_32480078234.html

Data Sheet

With a 2.8mm lens they have a 106 degree field of view. You could mount it to the right of the door on the siding and paint the cover brown to match for a more discreet install. It would cover the front door and the top of the steps with ID quality footage. People coming up your front steps making a bee line for the door bell would also look straight at it. You could even install a brightly coloured sign which says please ring above the doorbell to draw their eyes and by extension their face to the area. Laser engraved polished stainless steel is another option.

If you wanted to be even more discreet you could mount it to the left of the door. It would be invisible to anyone approaching until they were coming up the stairs. Disadvantages I can see with this position is that you might only capture the side of peoples faces as they have no reason to look to that area. They would also not enter the field of view of the camera until they were at the top of the stairs, whereas with the mounting to the right of the door you would see them on the path at the bottom of the stairs. The longer they are in the field of view increases your chances of them looking directly at the camera.

Hope that helps.

 

[Del Boy]

Pretty much what I've done! Great advice, I would've got a Dahua but I have a Hikvision NVR.

 

[jrich523]

It seems like Dahua and Hikvision both make a very similar wedge cam. I've seen a good variation on the specs though, different models and what not, but the prices are all pretty close.
@SyconsciousAu thats the same camera @tangent posted. I think im going to go with one of the two he posted (Dahua or Hikvision) just need to review specs.

 

[tangent]

It seems like Dahua and Hikvision both make a very similar wedge cam. I've seen a good variation on the specs though, different models and what not, but the prices are all pretty close.
@SyconsciousAu thats the same camera @tangent posted. I think im going to go with one of the two he posted (Dahua or Hikvision) just need to review specs.

As I mentioned before, on the Dahua's avoid the wedge cams with wifi. They lack PoE and smart detect features. It's always a good idea to confirm with the seller if any cam you're buying has the smart detect features.

The IR on these cameras ins't great. So for low light it's debatable if you're better off with the 2mp or 4mp version. I think most package theft actually occurs during daylight and it's right below your porch light so I'd probably go for the 4mp.