Camera selection and location

Guyauk

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I'm sure this is a beaten to death question so I apologise in advance! Every house is different so its hard to get a real idea based off other peoples layout

So I would like to be able to capture the main entry points and I am wondering if I will make this work with my chosen camera locations and camera count of 4.

The Yellow is the angle I was hoping to cover with the cameras.

Distances -

Left side of image- shed to the Door 1 is approx. 25ft.
Camera 1 to Door 1 is approx 65ft.

I am leaning towards HIkvision colorvu 4k bullets (4mm, 4mm and 2 x 6mm but just read up on the HDW5442 which seem pretty great

Would appreciate any and all advice
 

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wittaj

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Good to come here first then after wondering why you cannot IDENTIFY someone at 65 feet out with a 6mm lens!

That is too big of an area to cover with 4 cameras. You can certainly get overview images with 4 cameras to see that something happened, but not identify who did it.

It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything other than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything other than a 1/2.8" sensor. Most 4k are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP...this is even more critical with a PTZ that will be PTZing across a wide range of differing light conditions at night. 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL).

Next you need to worry about getting the right camera for the right location.

You would be shocked how close someone needs to be to a 4.0mm lens in order to ID them. And how much additional light is needed at night (when it matters most).

Take a look at this chart - to identify someone with the 2.8mm lens that is popular, someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera, but realistically within 10 feet after you dial it in to your settings.

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My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his 4 2.8mm fixed lens cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away.

When we had a thief come thru here and get into a lot of cars, the police couldn't use one video or photo from anyone's system that had fixed 2.8mm or 3.6mm cams - those cams sure looks nice and gives a great wide angle view, but you cannot identify anyone at 15 feet out. At night you cannot even ID someone from 10 feet. Meanwhile, the perp didn't come to my house but walked past on the sidewalk at 80 feet from my house and my 2MP varifocal zoomed in to a point at the sidewalk was the money shot for the police that got my neighbors all there stolen stuff back. Reolinks are even worse at night - he tried those first and sent back to get Arlos....and a year later he is regretting that choice too.

In fact my system was the only one that gave them useful information. Not even my other neighbors $1,300 4k Lorex system from Costco provided useful info - the cams just didn't cut it at night. His system wasn't even a year old and after that event has started replacing with cameras purchased from @EMPIRETECANDY on this site based on my recommendation and seeing my results - fortunately those cams work with the Lorex NVR. He is still shocked a 2MP camera performs better than his 4k cameras... It is all about the amount of light needed and getting the right camera for the right location.

My first few systems were the box units that were all 2.8mm lens and while the picture looked great in daytime, to identify someone you didn't know is impossible unless they are within 10 feet of the camera, and even then it is tough. You are getting the benefit coming to this site of hearing thoughts from people that have been there/done that.

We all hate to be that guy with a system and something happens and the event demonstrates how poor our system was and then we start the update process. My neighbor with his expensive arlos and monthly fees is that guy right now and is still fuming his system failed him. And my neighbor with his 4K Costco kit is as well LOL.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well.
  • 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
  • 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
  • 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
  • 49225 PTZ - great PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.
You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

Main keys are you can't locate the camera too high (not on the 2nd story or above 7 feet high unless it is for overview and not Identification purposes) or chase MP and you need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who. Also, do not chase marketing phrases like ColorVu and Full Color and the like - all cameras need light - simple physics...
 

Teken

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I'm sure this is a beaten to death question so I apologise in advance! Every house is different so its hard to get a real idea based off other peoples layout

So I would like to be able to capture the main entry points and I am wondering if I will make this work with my chosen camera locations and camera count of 4.

The Yellow is the angle I was hoping to cover with the cameras.

Distances -

Left side of image- shed to the Door 1 is approx. 25ft.
Camera 1 to Door 1 is approx 65ft.

I am leaning towards HIkvision colorvu 4k bullets (4mm, 4mm and 2 x 6mm but just read up on the HDW5442 which seem pretty great

Would appreciate any and all advice
Is the four camera count do to budget constraints or simply wanting to try things out? Nothing wrong with installing a few key cameras before a big (staged) roll out.

As noted by others the Hikvision ColorVu Cameras offer incredible night time (low light) video. When the internal LED’s are turned on they offer daylight video at night. Depending upon your needs and environment these cameras offer a great all in one solution which provides light, microphone, and nighttime colour video.

Having said this, I would balance the next roll out with some IR enabled 1/1.8 - 1/1.2 cameras. This will offer (almost) best of both worlds of low light colour performance and complete darkness IR video when needed.

Some things to consider before the deployment.

- FOV: Get up on a ladder and take photos and video of all future placement to get a general idea of what can be seen. Ideally you would just order a single camera and walk around with a long cable and mount it to a test rig. This would provide you real world samples of what can / can’t be seen with the cameras on hand.

- Walk Test: Every camera position should be validated by a walk test. This test will mimic walking, fast pace, and running during the day & night. This will help you determine how each camera needs to be adjusted and dialled in to provide a clean video free of motion blur / ghosting. Take a license plate, eye chart, colour wheel, and mark off defined distances to better understand what can / can’t be seen day & night.

- Mounting: Even if your soffit is metal based invest the time and materials to install correct wooden blocking. Doing so now insures a secure mount which is harder to remove and also allows you to install much heavier cameras in the future without any worries about soffit sag or fall out.

A pro tip is to always use some quality 3M double sided tape on the mount. This will allow you to get the base in the right spot while screwing it down and not have to worry about dropping anything or needing a 3rd hand! Always have a thick blanket under your work space to catch any screws or possible hardware drop!

- Big Pull: If you’re going to be pulling cable invest the time and materials to run a extra spare Ethernet drop. Doing so now will allow you to install the second / third phase of hardware with much less effort!

I always recommend pulling 22-4, 18-2, 16-2, 12-4, in specific areas & zones while the big pull is under way. This will allow you to install any future accessory such as microphones, DC lights, speakers, access point.

This is also a good time to consider pulling 120 VAC lines for flood lights, X-MAS lights, etc.

- Safety: If you’re going up the attic sit down and write out a list of items you need. Do not go into the attic space midday only in the early morning or evening when it’s cooler.

Get hydrated and do the 2P’s prior to going in!

Things to bring and wear in the attic:

Go to the dollar store and get a few sets of their paper jump suits. If they have a hood even better. Wear shorts and T-Shirt. Wear a respirator / N95 mask, gloves, safety glasses, knee pads. Get a head lamp if you don’t have one and always bring in a flood lamp so it can be hung up high for better visibility.

Carry extra flash light . . .

Always double check your footing and move the insulation to insure you’re on the roof beams and not on drywall.

Bring a small section of OSB plank so you can sit / kneel down easier and for extended periods of time.

Suspend the wires on the trusses and secure the cable at defined intervals no longer than six feet and don’t lay the cable on the ground / ceiling!

This will make your life easier if you ever have to go back up to do repairs or maintenance and not worry about locating or damaging cable. Leave enough service loop to move any hardware 4-8 feet in any direction if needed. While you’re at the dollar store or hardware store pick up some neon flag tape.

Write down in big numbers each camera zone and tie it to visual point with an arrow. In commercial installs we also use neon paint and spray the final install point with the camera number so it’s easier to locate at a far distance.

Tools: Side cutters, scissors, 33 speed tape, wire ties, bailing wire, sharpie, box cutter, multi screwdriver, pliers, staple gun, drill & bits, spade bits, hole saw, fish tape, string, fish weight.

Anything else is up to you!! Bring a water bottle to stay hydrated and take breaks when needed! Carry a thermometer and pay attention to the temperatures if it’s getting close to noon get out of there!

Once done take lots of photos and rake up the insulation and spread it out evenly. Use something to confirm the depth like a broom stick handle with written intervals on painters tape every two inches.

Good Luck . . .
 
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