Camera suggestions for dark areas at night

[JPmedia]

I searched but couldn't find anything on my specific request. Anyway, my overview camera for my LPR East camera is in a low light area at night, facing an unlit intersection 150 feet away. There is only ambient lighting from homes along the street. The next intersection down the road has a streetlight, but it is 466 feet away from the camera location. The LPR camera IR helps light up the intersection along with the IR light on the overview camera, but there is blurring in the overview camera image.

The overview camera is a LOREX 4K turret camera with variable focal length using a 1/3-inch sensor. Lorex boasts "color night vision" but in low lighting, the camera has issues with getting a good image even in IR mode. I'm not set on 4K resolution as I find that 4MP is more than enough in most of my applications.

In any event, I know I probably won't be able to run at night in color, but can anyone make suggestions on a replacement camera to help with nighttime images? Would the B52 bullet camera like the ones I use for LPR be suitable? Or are there other suggestions for cameras?

 

[wittaj]

Yep, "color night vision"....another marketing term LOL.

What do you want - overview or identify and if identify at what distance?

 

[Revo2Maxx]

There are a good few cameras out there will work in color at night. I mean my older 4mp 2.8mm lens, f/1.0 and 1/1.8in camera that has 4 white leds don't even turn on the white leds because the area the camera is mounted there is enough light and even with standard settings AKA factory. The camera has little ghosting only 1 or 2 colors will have this effect.. When it was mounted in the back yard where no light only IR and neighbors it would turn on the 4 leds not noticeable if you are not looking at the camera area and was enough to light the cameras view.. That is a Dahua, The real camera is on the 5449 but is called N45EFN2. Older so better cameras out there.. Also I have a N45EF63 this camera is color at night with NO LEDS at all IR or White.. This camera is based on the 5442 and works just as nice.. Also with the 1/1.8in sensor.. Also have 2 Amcrest 1046EW-AI cameras, These cameras are also based on the 5442 and have 2 white leds and not as nice f/stop but work well in the dark as my other Dahua Cameras..

 

[wittaj]

There are a good few cameras out there will work in color at night. I mean my older 4mp 2.8mm lens, f/1.0 and 1/1.8in camera that has 4 white leds don't even turn on the white leds because the area the camera is mounted there is enough light and even with standard settings AKA factory. The camera has little ghosting only 1 or 2 colors will have this effect.. When it was mounted in the back yard where no light only IR and neighbors it would turn on the 4 leds not noticeable if you are not looking at the camera area and was enough to light the cameras view.. That is a Dahua, The real camera is on the 5449 but is called N45EFN2. Older so better cameras out there.. Also I have a N45EF63 this camera is color at night with NO LEDS at all IR or White.. This camera is based on the 5442 and works just as nice.. Also with the 1/1.8in sensor.. Also have 2 Amcrest 1046EW-AI cameras, These cameras are also based on the 5442 and have 2 white leds and not as nice f/stop but work well in the dark as my other Dahua Cameras..

Please post some samples at night of a person in motion with the camera set to default settings.

 

[JPmedia]

There are a good few cameras out there will work in color at night. I mean my older 4mp 2.8mm lens, f/1.0 and 1/1.8in camera that has 4 white leds don't even turn on the white leds because the area the camera is mounted there is enough light and even with standard settings AKA factory. The camera has little ghosting only 1 or 2 colors will have this effect.. When it was mounted in the back yard where no light only IR and neighbors it would turn on the 4 leds not noticeable if you are not looking at the camera area and was enough to light the cameras view.. That is a Dahua, The real camera is on the 5449 but is called N45EFN2. Older so better cameras out there.. Also I have a N45EF63 this camera is color at night with NO LEDS at all IR or White.. This camera is based on the 5442 and works just as nice.. Also with the 1/1.8in sensor.. Also have 2 Amcrest 1046EW-AI cameras, These cameras are also based on the 5442 and have 2 white leds and not as nice f/stop but work well in the dark as my other Dahua Cameras..

I'm don't have to have a 4K 8MP camera, a good 4MP would be just fine. Attached is a screenshot of the camera's view at night

 

[Revo2Maxx]

Sorry it is taking it sweet time doing the upload check tonight lol. But did a small 2 min video of the N45EFN3 that is on a 2.8mm lens f/1.0 and has a 1/1.8in sensor.. This camera has 4 leds that were not on at the time. I have the LEDS set to auto and they don't come on at that location..



Also from 2021 I made a video about the 1041EW-AI and while I didn't show any motion that camera along with all the other cameras with the 1/1.8in sensor seem to work great for me on the default settings. There are a few that have External LEDS because of bugs in Summer and Fall.. But I didn't have them leds on I did turn on a different cameras white LED to show how having a different light can help keep the bugs down.. I did start that video in B/W because someone said camera can't do color at night and wanted to show that the camera could do color and even work in B/W but don't have a ICR so white led can work in B/W mode if someone wanted.. Anyway..

 

[Revo2Maxx]

Won't like the answer but the issue is the Sign in your picture. Looks nice. However the issue with the picture I am guessing is that sign. if it wasn't reflecting back into your cameras lens that picture I am guessing would be even better.. For a test. I would run out there cover the Sign and see if that does improve your picture quality?

Edit: also looks like there is a lot of IR in that picture from other cameras? or a High Power IR light? Something is causing a lot of Shadows in your picture for sure..

 

[JPmedia]

Won't like the answer but the issue is the Sign in your picture. Looks nice. However the issue with the picture I am guessing is that sign. if it wasn't reflecting back into your cameras lens that picture I am guessing would be even better.. For a test. I would run out there cover the Sign and see if that does improve your picture quality?

Edit: also looks like there is a lot of IR in that picture from other cameras? or a High Power IR light? Something is causing a lot of Shadows in your picture for sure..

The IR light you see in the screen grab is from the Empire Tech B52 camera I use for LPR and some light from the camera that the image was captured from. You can see the split between the IR from the 2 cameras in the left 25% of the image

The first video you post has a LOT more ambient light than I have available in my location. And it's hard to tell, but it looks like snow on the ground?

 

[wittaj]

I think that sign is too far away to make an appreciable difference to the exposure. It is simply the smaller sensor.

Again, do you want overview or identify? That dictates the camera.

If overview, the 54IR fixed lens would be a good choice, otherwise the 54IR-ZE up to 30ish feet and the 54IR-Z4E up to 60ish feet.

 

[JPmedia]

Again, do you want overview or identify? That dictates the camera.

If overview, the 54IR fixed lens would be a good choice, otherwise the 54IR-ZE up to 30ish feet and the 54IR-Z4E up to 60ish feet.

This location is pretty much for an overview so one could ascertain vehicle color and possibly the type of vehicle in conjunction with the LPR

 

[wittaj]

Unfortunately, every camera needs light - either visible or infrared. There is no magic camera.

Is there any visible light there - do neighbors keep on house lights? Do you? That can make a big difference with the cameras on the ideal MP/sensor ratio.

If you get a full color camera like the 4K/T that doesn't need much light, if you don't have enough light or refuse to run the built in white LEDs, then the camera will be useless as it cannot see infrared.

If you buy a camera that can see infrared, you can always force it into color.

If your house lights are on, the 4K/T can probably work and the larger sensor helps. Otherwise, you need the 5442/54IR and force it into color.

And recognize that since it is overview, you can then get by with a slower shutter to let more light in so that it can do better with color, but there will be some blur to it. It is a trade-off on color versus clean capture.

 

[Revo2Maxx]

Just buy this camera and no need to force into color.. It has f/1.0 and a 1/1.2in sensor with 4 leds. IT is the big brother to my Dahua N45EFN2 camera that is really a Dahua 5449TP-ASE-LED.. Anyway the camera that I show on front of my house and the others that I mention that are a 5442TP-AS-LED, and 5442TP-ASE-LED, and a 5442TP-AS-NI-V2 the NI mean no light.. are all color at night cameras.. But the one of Amcrest Amcrest Night Color AI Bullet IP PoE Camera w/ 164ft Full Color Nightvision, Security IP Camera Outdoor, Built-in Microphone, Face Detection, Human & Vehicle Detection, 4K@30fps IP8M-B2886EW-AI no need to force into color as it is a color night camera already setup to run in color, Would have to force into B/W but why would you want to lol..

Anyway another video showing again my 5449TP-ASE-LED camera that was sold as a Dahua N45EFN2 camera on my front without LEDS on showing cars at night I did speed it up and the reason audio is out when it trips with cars going by is because audio out mutes audio in while out is running.. Just saying..

 

[wittaj]

The Amcrest model you show is $410 on the Amcrest site. Andy's (@EMPIRETECANDY ) version of the camera that is International Dahua OEM is $238

That camera might be too big for what he wants or needs.

The 4K/T which is the turret version is $210

 

[JPmedia]

Just buy this camera and no need to force into color.. It has f/1.0 and a 1/1.2in sensor with 4 leds. IT is the big brother to my Dahua N45EFN2 camera that is really a Dahua 5449TP-ASE-LED.. Anyway the camera that I show on front of my house and the others that I mention that are a 5442TP-AS-LED, and 5442TP-ASE-LED, and a 5442TP-AS-NI-V2 the NI mean no light.. are all color at night cameras.. But the one of Amcrest Amcrest Night Color AI Bullet IP PoE Camera w/ 164ft Full Color Nightvision, Security IP Camera Outdoor, Built-in Microphone, Face Detection, Human & Vehicle Detection, 4K@30fps IP8M-B2886EW-AI no need to force into color as it is a color night camera already setup to run in color, Would have to force into B/W but why would you want to lol..

Anyway another video showing again my 5449TP-ASE-LED camera that was sold as a Dahua N45EFN2 camera on my front without LEDS on showing cars at night I did speed it up and the reason audio is out when it trips with cars going by is because audio out mutes audio in while out is running.. Just saying..

I think we're comparing apples to oranges with location. In your latest posted video, you have at least 3 streetlights that I can see, and there's snow on the ground which is very good at enhancing available ambient light. I live in Florida, so no snow and where I live, there are very few streetlights. If you look at the grab I posted, you'll see there is some ambient light, but not a lot. The lighting stays the same throughout the night though.

 

[JPmedia]

The Amcrest model you show is $410 on the Amcrest site. Andy's (@EMPIRETECANDY ) version of the camera that is International Dahua OEM is $238

That camera might be too big for what he wants or needs.

The 4K/T which is the turret version is $210

I'm trying to consolidate cameras to be unified and not have to deal with compatibility issues. Choosing Amcrest now adds another brand and potential for issues. I realize that camera may be a Dahua based product, but they usually have their own firmware which can cause issues.

Anyway, I obviously want to keep the cost somewhat manageable, but I'm really looking for the best camera for that location that can provide the best performance given the lighting conditions

 

[wittaj]

The Amcrest is almost double Andy's version so that should make that one easy LOL.

Since I know at least some of your cameras are from Andy, I would suggest the 54IR fixed lens or the 4K/T if you have your lights on at night.

 

[Flintstone61]

if your overview Lorex is in adequate, you can mount an Empiretech turret on a better sensor in that location. 1/3 sensor is what they sell to consumers .

EmpireTech IPC-T54IR-ZE-S3 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP IR Starlight 2.7mm–12mm Var

4-MP 1/1.8" CMOS image sensor, low luminance, and high definition image. Outputs max. 4MP (2688×1520) @25/30 fps. Built-in IR LED, and the max. illumination distance is 40 m. ROI, SVC, SMART H.264+/H.265+, AI H.264/H.265, encoding after filter, flexible coding, applicable to various bandwidth...

empiretech01.com

 

[Revo2Maxx]

Understand. Sorry was only trying to show as you asked about being able to see color of cars. So I thought I would show another part when I had the video setup for cars going by at night. While my area is different yes. You're closer to the road and less light so even with my camera that I have you would have to use the Leds.. Now what needs to be understood is that while the leds are on most peoples house lights are brighter then how much light that will shine on the area. While in my second video I showed with lights on and off in an area that was mostly dark. While it looks bright to the cameras view. Please understand that looking out there it will not help you to move around. In other words a flood light or house light is brighter and people feel white LED cameras will put to much light out but really they don't..

Don't know Empire cameras and didn't know they offered the 4k like the Amcrest. Either way it is in either option quality camera. If you are using Empire then buy theirs as Wittaj said it cost less. Was offering an idea of a quality camera to buy with good sensor and F/stop with ability to run in Color without being forced..

Just keep in mind, Even if an ICR camera is forced into color mode, it lacks the optimized sensor, lighting, and processing of a true color night vision camera. The dedicated color night camera with white LEDs ensures a more balanced, vibrant image with better low-light performance. Also Lens coating and design is different...

 

[bigredfish]

Just buy this camera and no need to force into color.. It has f/1.0 and a 1/1.2in sensor with 4 leds. IT is the big brother to my Dahua N45EFN2 camera that is really a Dahua 5449TP-ASE-LED.. Anyway the camera that I show on front of my house and the others that I mention that are a 5442TP-AS-LED, and 5442TP-ASE-LED, and a 5442TP-AS-NI-V2 the NI mean no light.. are all color at night cameras.. But the one of Amcrest Amcrest Night Color AI Bullet IP PoE Camera w/ 164ft Full Color Nightvision, Security IP Camera Outdoor, Built-in Microphone, Face Detection, Human & Vehicle Detection, 4K@30fps IP8M-B2886EW-AI no need to force into color as it is a color night camera already setup to run in color, Would have to force into B/W but why would you want to lol..

Anyway another video showing again my 5449TP-ASE-LED camera that was sold as a Dahua N45EFN2 camera on my front without LEDS on showing cars at night I did speed it up and the reason audio is out when it trips with cars going by is because audio out mutes audio in while out is running.. Just saying..

You have a shit ton of ambient light and white reflecting snow, but yeah the 5449 fixed lens is a great camera

 

[JPmedia]

Understand. Sorry was only trying to show as you asked about being able to see color of cars. So I thought I would show another part when I had the video setup for cars going by at night. While my area is different yes. You're closer to the road and less light so even with my camera that I have you would have to use the Leds.. Now what needs to be understood is that while the leds are on most peoples house lights are brighter then how much light that will shine on the area. While in my second video I showed with lights on and off in an area that was mostly dark. While it looks bright to the cameras view. Please understand that looking out there it will not help you to move around. In other words a flood light or house light is brighter and people feel white LED cameras will put to much light out but really they don't..

Don't know Empire cameras and didn't know they offered the 4k like the Amcrest. Either way it is in either option quality camera. If you are using Empire then buy theirs as Wittaj said it cost less. Was offering an idea of a quality camera to buy with good sensor and F/stop with ability to run in Color without being forced..

Just keep in mind, Even if an ICR camera is forced into color mode, it lacks the optimized sensor, lighting, and processing of a true color night vision camera. The dedicated color night camera with white LEDs ensures a more balanced, vibrant image with better low-light performance. Also Lens coating and design is different...

I get it, but I don't believe there is enough available light to run color at this location and get results similar to your location.

As far as cost, obviously I don't have unlimited funds, but in the same token, buying and testing different cameras can become expensive very quickly.

So anyway, what is the exact model of the camera you are using for the front of your house showing the driveway?