Can’t decide between two different cameras.

[wittaj]

Change the exposure to like 1/120 at night and let's see what happens.

 

[imthescott]

That will create motion blur but take away some noise assuming the ISO on these change. Can’t change the aperture I don’t think.

 

[wittaj]

I highly doubt at night that this camera is running faster than a 1/120 shutter. Maybe you have enough light, but I suspect that you run a 1/120 shutter and the image will get a lot darker and maybe even kick into B/W and IR, which means that the shutter was running way slower than 1/120. Or if it stays in color, then it cranked the gain up to 100.

Change it to manual priority and make the shutter 1/120 and the gain 50 and watch what happens.

The point is that cars coming to a stop sign and then moving isn't really a good test, nor is it a good test that far out at the edges of the image.

What about a car moving at the speed limit? What about a person moving around within 10 feet or so of that camera?

Now maybe there just happens to be enough light that you get away with more, but probably not, these sensors are tiny.

You might have to forget what you know about DSLR and high end photography cameras LOL as you play with these. Almost everyone that has come here with experience in DSLR cameras struggle with these cameras. Every one of these cameras have more processing of the images than a DSLR camera. Some are worse than others. Then there is the compression of the video, etc. Turn off NR on one of these cameras and you will see how much processing is used.

You will find a BIG difference between photography equipment and these cameras. Things like trying to match focal lengths are tough because it may be crystal clear on high end DSLR and not be clear with these types of cameras. The sensors and optics just are not at the same level. These cameras are designed for 24/7 use with abuse from the elements. DSLR cameras are designed for a different working environment and purpose. Hang a DSLR camera outside and see how long it lasts LOL! But the quality would be better for the time it was working (but also a lot more storage needed too).

Remember these are surveillance cameras, not DSLR cameras, so you have to check your expectations. For example, you can see individual hairs and skin pores with DSLR photography equipment and you won't with these kinds of cameras. These are for a different use and different expectations.

• Sensor Size - a full frame DSLR sensor size is 864mm^2; whereas a 1/2.8" sensor popular on many cameras would be 20mm^2, so the "real" camera can collect over 40 times more light than a surveillance camera. And this doesn't even account for less light available for an 8MP versus 2MP for the same size sensor.
• Shutter Speed (Exposure) - Taking a picture with a "real" camera, you can slow the shutter down to 1/2s or longer for a nice clean picture of a person not moving. Perps rarely stand still and we need a shutter of at least 1/60s to minimize the blur.
• Aperture - With a "rea" camera you focus on a specific part of the field of view, while a surveillance needs to focus on things in the foreground and background, which means the aperture is smaller, further compounding the light issue.
• Compression - A single 8MP image from a "real" camera could be upwards of 5MB of storage. In surveillance cameras, if you record at 15FPS, every second of video could be 75MB or more, which could equate to 6.5TB per day per camera. Obviously most are not going to have that kind of storage, so lossy compression algorithms are used to reduce storage and network bandwidth requirement, and that can add noise.
• Environment - a "real" camera is used mainly under ideal conditions, whereas a surveillance camera is going 24/7 in every type of element, so the design and size impacts its capabilities.

 

[imthescott]

I highly doubt at night that this camera is running faster than a 1/120 shutter. Maybe you have enough light, but I suspect that you run a 1/120 shutter and the image will get a lot darker and maybe even kick into B/W and IR, which means that the shutter was running way slower than 1/120. Or if it stays in color, then it cranked the gain up to 100.

Change it to manual priority and make the shutter 1/120 and the gain 50 and watch what happens.

The point is that cars coming to a stop sign and then moving isn't really a good test, nor is it a good test that far out at the edges of the image.

What about a car moving at the speed limit? What about a person moving around within 10 feet or so of that camera?

Now maybe there just happens to be enough light that you get away with more, but probably not, these sensors are tiny.

You might have to forget what you know about DSLR and high end photography cameras LOL as you play with these. Almost everyone that has come here with experience in DSLR cameras struggle with these cameras. Every one of these cameras have more processing of the images than a DSLR camera. Some are worse than others. Then there is the compression of the video, etc. Turn off NR on one of these cameras and you will see how much processing is used.

You will find a BIG difference between photography equipment and these cameras. Things like trying to match focal lengths are tough because it may be crystal clear on high end DSLR and not be clear with these types of cameras. The sensors and optics just are not at the same level. These cameras are designed for 24/7 use with abuse from the elements. DSLR cameras are designed for a different working environment and purpose. Hang a DSLR camera outside and see how long it lasts LOL! But the quality would be better for the time it was working (but also a lot more storage needed too).

Remember these are surveillance cameras, not DSLR cameras, so you have to check your expectations. For example, you can see individual hairs and skin pores with DSLR photography equipment and you won't with these kinds of cameras. These are for a different use and different expectations.

• Sensor Size - a full frame DSLR sensor size is 864mm^2; whereas a 1/2.8" sensor popular on many cameras would be 20mm^2, so the "real" camera can collect over 40 times more light than a surveillance camera. And this doesn't even account for less light available for an 8MP versus 2MP for the same size sensor.
• Shutter Speed (Exposure) - Taking a picture with a "real" camera, you can slow the shutter down to 1/2s or longer for a nice clean picture of a person not moving. Perps rarely stand still and we need a shutter of at least 1/60s to minimize the blur.
• Aperture - With a "rea" camera you focus on a specific part of the field of view, while a surveillance needs to focus on things in the foreground and background, which means the aperture is smaller, further compounding the light issue.
• Compression - A single 8MP image from a "real" camera could be upwards of 5MB of storage. In surveillance cameras, if you record at 15FPS, every second of video could be 75MB or more, which could equate to 6.5TB per day per camera. Obviously most are not going to have that kind of storage, so lossy compression algorithms are used to reduce storage and network bandwidth requirement, and that can add noise.
• Environment - a "real" camera is used mainly under ideal conditions, whereas a surveillance camera is going 24/7 in every type of element, so the design and size impacts its capabilities.

They are pretty overwhelming so far. I do like to learn as much as possible when venturing into a new thing, so I will read a lot on this forum. As for this camera, it’s a loaner so I haven’t invested much time in it. I have 5442s coming tomorrow. Hoping they out perform this Amcrest I borrowed.

 

[wittaj]

Yeah the 5442 will beat the amcrest!