Capabilities of PTZ Cameras

[IslandEye]

Hi

For choosing a PoE PTZ camera to remotely monitor a dock for unwanted visitors (and for zooming around to check a harbour) I've boiled it down to between the 8MP Reolink RLC-823S2 16x PTZ (pendant type) and a 4 MP Dahua/Empiretech SD4A425DB 25x PTZ (Hanging dome type). The new PTZ camera would replace the little Wyze Cam V2 Outdoor battery cam that made the image below, which is overlain with our target person detection zone in blue.

The Dahua/Empiretech is an extra C$200 (with Black Friday deals) - Leaning towards the Dahua/Empiretech despite the extra cost and lower MP count, but wondering if the extra $$$ are really worth it and wondering if the SD4A425DB would be able to do what we need (rich push notifications of person detections via iphone with no external software or NVR). The PTZ would run without an NVR, through a PoE+ switch to our LTE Router and over internet to a phone or PC client.

From what I can see in reviews, these two cameras are pretty similar. The ways they differ are:

Reolink RLC-823S2 _________________________ Dahua/Empiretech SD4A425DB

No auto zoom tracking ____________________ > Auto zoom tracking

Jerky tracking_______________________________> Better tracking

Ok person detection________________________ > Better person and face detection

Limited tuning_______________________________> More granular tuning

Slow focusing________________________________> Faster focussing

Phone app / PC client_______________________> Phone app / PC client (IE needed...)

Rich notification not built in_________________> Rich notifications (built in or NVR/Blue Iris only?)

Audio________________________________________> Not clear what is built in (wires only or has mic/spkr but external mic recommended due to internal motor/fan?)

What I can't get a handle on is which ecosystem is better, i.e. how do the GUI's and apps compare?

Thanks for thoughts on either camera or ecosystem!

 

[IslandEye]

Just noticed that the 2023 specs for the Dahua SD4A425DB state that the maximum SD card size is 64 GB. Is anyone using a 256 GB card in these successfully? (Just ordered a 256 GByte card so would have to cancel that order if this one doesn't work in this camera)

 

[Ri22o]

Just noticed that the 2023 specs for the Dahua SD4A425DB state that the maximum SD card size is 64 GB. Is anyone using a 256 GB card in these successfully? (Just ordered a 256 GByte card so would have to cancel that order if this one doesn't work in this camera)

I have a 128gb in mine.



The Empiretech is not on the ideal sensor, but I would go with it over the Reolink any day.

 

[bigredfish]

Hi

For choosing a PoE PTZ camera to remotely monitor a dock for unwanted visitors (and for zooming around to check a harbour) I've boiled it down to between the Reolink RLC-823S2 16x PTZ (pendant type) and a Dahua/Empiretech SD4A425DB 25x PTZ (Hanging dome type). The new PTZ camera would replace the little Wyze Cam V2 Outdoor battery cam that made the image below, which is overlain with our target person detection zone in blue.

The Dahua/Empiretech is an extra $200 (with Black Friday deals) - Leaning towards the Dahua/Empiretech despite the extra cost, but wondering if the extra $$$ are really worth it and wondering if the SD4A425DB would be able to do what we need (rich push notifications of person detections via iphone with no external software or NVR). The PTZ would run without an NVR, through a PoE+ switch to our LTE Router and over internet to a phone or PC client.

From what I can see in reviews, these two cameras are pretty similar. The ways they differ are:

Reolink RLC-823S2 _________________________ Dahua/Empiretech SD4A425DB

















What I can't get a handle on is which ecosystem is better, i.e. how do the GUI's and apps compare?

Thanks for thoughts on either camera or ecosystem!View attachment 207820

IE is not needed. especially if you are sending to a phone. It can have benefits for initially setting up the camera, but I can assure you it can be done without IE

Your LTE connection and provider will be the biggest determining factor on how well alerts work and get pushed.

 

[IslandEye]

I have a 128gb in mine.

View attachment 207839

The Empiretech is not on the ideal sensor, but I would go with it over the Reolink any day.

Thanks for showing that the camera fully recognized your 128Gb card - that really helps figure out what to do about the 256Gb card I've got coming.

 

[IslandEye]

IE is not needed. especially if you are sending to a phone. It can have benefits for initially setting up the camera, but I can assure you it can be done without IE

Your LTE connection and provider will be the biggest determining factor on how well alerts work and get pushed.

Thanks for that. Does the camera generate alerts with a thumbnail image ("rich notifications") or is that something that would have to be generated via an NVR or BlueIris etc.?

 

[bigredfish]

Typically thats an NVR or VMS function. I havent tried and it would be model specific

 

[IslandEye]

Thanks for that. Does the camera generate alerts with a thumbnail image ("rich notifications") or is that something that would have to be generated via an NVR or BlueIris etc.?

Your LTE connection and provider will be the biggest determining factor on how well alerts work and get pushed.

Are there particular network protocol requirements from the connection or provider to get notifications? Because we have a clear line of sight over water to the tower, our 24/7 LTE connection is pretty good (can stream Netflix, do zoom meetings, connect our 24/7 solar monitoring system, monitoring our Wyze cam).

 

[bigredfish]

Not that I know of, I was just referring to speed and data transfer capability. Sounds like you should be fine

 

[biggen]

So just going by pros/cons you listed in the OP, the Dahua is a no brainer. Also, the Dahua is going to have far better light collecting ability at night with a 4MP 1/2.8 sensor vs the Relolink 8MP 1/2.8 sensor. And, what is $200 extra in the grand scheme of things? Also, don’t even compare 4 vs 8 MP for daytime. It doesnt matter. Both are excellent when you have the sun as a light source. Which brings me to my next point…

That Dahua cam ptz you have chosen at 4MP isn’t the ideal sensor size for that megapixel. You really want a 4MP cam with a sensor size of 1/1.8 if want to maximize light gathering ability at night. That would mean you would need to spend double and move up to the PTZ5A4M-25X.
Do yourself a favor and search up here on the forum “chasing mega pixel”. You will understand why sensor size is far more important than megapixels.

The bottom line is, this is a a dimly lit dock? You want maximum zoom and light gathering ability? Spend the dough and go with the 5A4M and be done with it.

 

[wittaj]

+1 above - you have no light.

Here is someone that has both of them:

Post in thread 'PTZ5A4M-25X vs PTZ4M-25X'

Apr 17, 2024

I don't have the cameras in same position, but these two shots tonight via PTZ5A4M-25X vs PTZ4M-25X should already give you a good feel for the night time difference. Mind, you the PTZ4M-25X would be even murkier without the extra IR floods.

PTZ4M-25X 4MP on less than ideal 1/2.8" sensor. Notice how the grass lacks detail and the fir tree has blobs for its branches.


PTZ5A4M-25X is 4MP on the ideal 1/1.8" sensor. The grass is sharper. It's just plain more detail despite both being 4MP cameras.


FInally, here is Andromeda galaxy this morning on the PTZ5A4M-25X. I...

• guykuo

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[IslandEye]

Well yes, the dock isn't normally lit (we are off-grid with solar power) but I have lights on the dock that I was thinking of putting on a WiFi switch so I can remotely flip them on to check at night if the float anchored off the dock is still ok during a big storm.

Unfortunately the PTZ5A4M-25X isn't available on Amazon Canada right now which means another C$160 on top for import fees and shipping etc if ordered through Amazon USA so the PTZ5A4M-25X would cost C$1200 compared to C$519. Unless I order it direct from Andy and the free shipping includes Vancouver, BC in southern Canada!

Here's a short video of the dock illuminated from the Wyze Cam's puny little IR LED - weather station on the dock shows we are currently getting up to 44 knot wind gusts coming through, image was just downloaded minutes ago during a lull in the storm (round two of the current bomb cyclone tracks that have left hundreds of thousands without power in the PNW).

 

[wittaj]

Keep in mind that that little Wyze is also on settings to favor a bright image over quality of motion.

You need faster shutters to freeze frame to be able to capture pics of perps.

The faster the shutter, the more light that is needed, and thus the darker the image.

So if you don't care about IDENTIFY quality and only want alerts of if a person is down there, then don't waste your money on a high priced PTZ. Stay with what you got.

 

[IslandEye]

Good advice. Night vision isn't really high on the list. The waters around here are hazardous enough that we don't get many midnight teepee creepers. It's basically usually pitch black out there at night - clouds and the Fjord like inlet is surrounded by mountains.

Salt water resistance, rock solid person alert during daytime and good pan/zoom for checking all the other docks and boats around the bay during the day are our primary goals which is why I zeroed in on the Dahua SD4A425DB 25x PTZ as an affordable option. It's also nice to be able to get auto-tracking and auto zoom to be able to get a decent head shot after an alert so as we could recognize who is using our dock as sometimes we have relatives and friends using our dock while we are away.

 

[wittaj]

In that case the SD4A would be fine for the daytime.

As long as you are aware of the limitations at night time with that camera.

 

[biggen]

@EMPIRETECANDY will ship directly to you. Generally his direct prices are a bit cheaper and include shipping vs buying from his Amazon store. Send him a DM here and he will respond. I’ve bought 20+ cams from him over the years. He is a stand up guy.

Whatever you decide, go with a Dahua over the Reolink. At least we can help you get it setup and working. None of us have much desire to troubleshoot Reolink junk.

 

[IslandEye]

Thanks - Andy sent me links to his store which I had not found on my own.

Still wondering what onboard audio the Dahua PTZ cameras have. The specs are truly vague about audio - state that they are wired for audio inputs and outputs but it's not clear if they have mics or speakers. I know that the motors onboard create noise so there is an advantage in having an external microphone, but just what is their audio configuration? Ports to inject an audio signal into the ethernet or what? Line In, Line out?

 

[bigredfish]

Nope no mic. yes Line In Line Out