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CAT6A Shielded (FTP) Running Along 120VAC for 75'

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Donut17

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Sorry to revive this thread but I have a very similar scenario with my new detached garage and hope to get some insight from the experts here. The electrician will be burying a 50A line (not sure on details yet as we have not talked specifics) to power the garage. I will be digging the 2 foot deep trench so he can bury the electrical line. It will be a 70 foot run.

Until I saw this thread I was planning to bury 1/2 inch PVC conduit (glued together) in the same trench with about 1 foot difference to separate the lines for interference (electrical line 2 feet down then ethernet in PVC about 1 foot down). Inside the PVC I was going to run three lines of Monoprice cat6 unshielded CMR rated since I have nearly 1000 feet I am not using for anything else. It seems that if a line goes bad I can simply pull another line.

I like the concept of fiber but it seems like more points of failure and more equipment (fiber line, fiber to ethernet converters, POE source in garage, etc).


So my question is how bad of an idea is it to just use the Cat6 in glued PVC buried a foot away from the electrical line? Why would water get into the PVC? My sprinkler people pressure test my water lines in the spring and have had no issues for the past 8-9 years? Have I just been really lucky?

Thanks so much in advance!
 
IReallyLikePizza2

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I would HIGHLY suggest fiber. Run SMF and it will last forever and will be immune to EMF, surges, etc. Even if you don't use it, run it anyway and let it sit there.

Don't bury 1/2 conduit, go 1" at least. No one ever wished for smaller conduit in the ground, only bigger! Its tough pulling through a long run of 1/2. That CMR Cat6 is really not what you want, and likely won't last. Buried conduit is a wet location and I've found that regular CMR degrades quite fast under water

Another thing though, why only a 50a circuit for the garage? Seems pretty small for a future where EV's will be a thing
 
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TonyR

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Donut17 said:
Sorry to revive this thread but I have a very similar scenario with my new detached garage and hope to get some insight from the experts here. The electrician will be burying a 50A line (not sure on details yet as we have not talked specifics) to power the garage. I will be digging the 2 foot deep trench so he can bury the electrical line. It will be a 70 foot run.

Until I saw this thread I was planning to bury 1/2 inch PVC conduit (glued together) in the same trench with about 1 foot difference to separate the lines for interference (electrical line 2 feet down then ethernet in PVC about 1 foot down). Inside the PVC I was going to run three lines of Monoprice cat6 unshielded CMR rated since I have nearly 1000 feet I am not using for anything else. It seems that if a line goes bad I can simply pull another line.

I like the concept of fiber but it seems like more points of failure and more equipment (fiber line, fiber to ethernet converters, POE source in garage, etc).


So my question is how bad of an idea is it to just use the Cat6 in glued PVC buried a foot away from the electrical line? Why would water get into the PVC? My sprinkler people pressure test my water lines in the spring and have had no issues for the past 8-9 years? Have I just been really lucky?

Thanks so much in advance!
Click to expand...
Personally, since you're running power to the garage I'd go with a Ubiquiti Layer 2 Transparent Bridge or fiber but since you're considering CAT cable I'd recommend:
  • Go with shielded since the run will be running parallel to the AC power a foot away and your conduit is not metallic. Insure the conductors are solid (not stranded), pure copper (not CCA/Copper Clad Aluminum) conductors.
  • I suggest using outdoor-rated, direct-burial rated cable for all conduit installations that are outdoors and below ground. This is because moisture WILL find its way into the conduit generally from above-ground boxes and fixtures, collect in low points as the air inside the conduit is subjected to a thermal cycle (heats up during day, air inside expands, cools off at night and contracts, drawing in damp outside air, condenses, travels to low point, is trapped and won't escape during warm up cycle, just continues to collect at low points).
 
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Holbs

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Donut17 said:
Sorry to revive this thread but I have a very similar scenario with my new detached garage and hope to get some insight from the experts here. The electrician will be burying a 50A line (not sure on details yet as we have not talked specifics) to power the garage. I will be digging the 2 foot deep trench so he can bury the electrical line. It will be a 70 foot run.

Until I saw this thread I was planning to bury 1/2 inch PVC conduit (glued together) in the same trench with about 1 foot difference to separate the lines for interference (electrical line 2 feet down then ethernet in PVC about 1 foot down). Inside the PVC I was going to run three lines of Monoprice cat6 unshielded CMR rated since I have nearly 1000 feet I am not using for anything else. It seems that if a line goes bad I can simply pull another line.

I like the concept of fiber but it seems like more points of failure and more equipment (fiber line, fiber to ethernet converters, POE source in garage, etc).


So my question is how bad of an idea is it to just use the Cat6 in glued PVC buried a foot away from the electrical line? Why would water get into the PVC? My sprinkler people pressure test my water lines in the spring and have had no issues for the past 8-9 years? Have I just been really lucky?

Thanks so much in advance!
Click to expand...
water will get into PVC if buried. You do not only have to worry about rainfall seepage but humidity & condensation buildup. Hence, ANY buried cable should be waterproof regardless.
If going underground path...it should be considered by everyone on IPCT past, now, and future to go weatherproof & shielded in a minimum of 1" conduit. You get one shot at this. Cover all bases. Heck, cause I've learned at my business, I would slap in 2" with a following pull-string for future.
I have to struggle and swear often to put 5 shielded/weatherproof Cat6 cables in a 3/4" conduit with 90's.
The price different of 1/2" -> 3/4" -> 1" is negligible for this purpose.
Plus, always think future. More cables? Slap in fiber cable later on?
Over a 5 or 10 year period, you would have more issues with copper wiring in underground than with any fiber modules in switches. Go fiber.
 
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TonyR

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looney2ns said:
Yeh, your in KY, Nasty thunderstorms. Use either fibre as suggested or the Wireless bridge that @TonyR suggests.
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Amen to that regarding lightning....which is exactly why down here in 'Bama that metallic cable between 2 or more buildings for networking purposes would be my last choice.
 
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Kevin Doe

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I can vouch for water in glued up buried conduit. Not sure if it's from ground water or condensation building up over time since the ends aren't perfectly sealed. I ended up pulling fiber through my conduit, and sure enough, the fiber coming out the other side was wet. The fiber to ethernet converters were cheap and work reliably. Like other said, I wished I used larger size conduit. Min 1" next time.
 
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Donut17

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Kevin Doe said:
Ordered:


Wish me luck. Maybe I'll need it running through what is likely a water filled conduit. If it doesn't work, I'll then spend the extra money for a burial cable. I decided to go single mode as it seemed capable of faster data transfer rates, and really wasn't any more expensive (at least of what I was looking at on Amazon). Thanks for all of the guidance.
Click to expand...
So is this the equipment you ended up using? Price is reasonable. Any issues?
 
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IReallyLikePizza2

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A note on the fiber patch cables. If you're pulling it through conduit be careful, those ends are quite large and you want to be somewhat careful with them. When I was running fiber to my generator and I went through a few different options for powering the Raspberry Pi inside, and I ended up damaging a connector because I had to re-pull it a few times, but this was 20ft of 1/2 conduit also with power in the same run

In the end I bought some short boot fiber from fs.com to replace it and it was much easier to get around corners

www.fs.com

Short Boot Fiber Jumper Duplex OS2 LC/SC Single Mode - FS - FS.com

FS LC/SC short boot fiber jumper cable, customized OS2 single mode are ideal for use in high-density data center applications with shorter boot length and lower reduction.
www.fs.com www.fs.com

Here is a picture comparison

1672237986672.png

Hopefully I'm not causing more confusion, but worth a think. Another thing, buy the fiber MUCH longer than you need. With SMF and those transceivers you have a max distance of 10km, so I always go longer and coil it up at both ends. PITA to run it and realize you're a few feet short, or you want to move the setup in a few years and realize you don't have enough length. If you think you need 50ft, I'd just go for 100ft

The transceivers listed are a bit expensive, I'd get these instead

www.fs.com

Cisco GLC-LH-SM 1000BASE-LX/LH SFP Transceiver Module - FS.com

FS Cisco compatible GLC-LH-SM SFP optical transceiver, up to 10km link lengths over singlemode fiber (SMF), applied for Gigabit Ethernet communication links, enterprise/data center LAN & SAN networks.
www.fs.com www.fs.com

But, if you're getting everything from Amazon then maybe its not a big deal. fiberstore (FS.com) is generally quite reasonable for fiber equipment.

You might think about also skipping media converters + switch and just buy a switch with SFP ports. I'm a big fan of less equipment. Less to plug in, less to fail, less cables.

www.fs.com

FS 8-Port Gigabit Ethernet Smart PoE Switch with 2x 1Gb SFP Uplinks - FS

Buy FS S2800S-8T2F-P L2+ Smart PoE Switch @65W. This 8-port switch helps to power PC, IP camera, AP,etc. providing affordable solution for your home and SMB businesses.
www.fs.com www.fs.com


If you do, do you ever have need for 10Gb networking over 1Gb? Because you could get a switch with SFP+ ports, and then you'd be able to get 10Gb across the same fiber (Switch will be much more expensive though)
 
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TonyR

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Kevin Doe said:
Yes, this is what I used. Been working great for a few months now. No issues at all, it just works.
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I bought the exact same 2 media converters with SFP module and the exact brand and type fiber (except 30m/98 ft.) this past fall, I plan to replace the 65 foot CAT-5e cable in my attic that's been responsible for several damaged devices on my network the last few years after nearby lightning strikes.

My plan has been stalled by several personal events since but I should have in place BEFORE the attic hits 120 degrees F this summer! :cool:

I ran it on the desktop to one test cam for 2 weeks without a hiccup.
 
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