Choosing a high quality turret IP camera

[Peeper]

Near the street, I have decorative rock columns on each side of my driveway. I have an inexpensive turret IP camera mounted on each column. These:

Amcrest 4K Night Color AI Turret IP PoE Camera 49ft Full Color Nightvision, Security IP Camera, Built-in Microphone, Human Detection, Perimeter Protection, 129° FOV, 4K@15fps IP8M-2779EW-AI (White)

They are connected via ethernet cable to a Synology NAS running Surveillance Station.

The turret IP cameras provide a nice "live view" but recorded images seem lesser quality. For example, a landscaper truck recently came down my street and made a U-turn in my cul-de-sac. Right in front of my driveway, max 80 feet away. There was a company name posted on the door. When I reviewed video and tried to zoom in, I could not read the sign on the door. Blurry. I do not know if this is due to shutter speed, a 2.8 lens, or camera quality, Later I tried a similar thing with live view and surprisingly got similar results. I know digital zoom has limits but I seem to lose resolution faster than I should.

I would like to switch one of them to a different model with better performance. I do need to stay with turret form factor. I first started looking at a 4mm or 6mm lens, but I don't see many choices. I could easily go to 4mm or even 6mm and keep the entire cul-de-sac in view. Then I learned some cameras have "plastic" lenses and others "glass" lenses. Is that right? I could do varifocal but would likely never change the varifocal setting after installation-- so I think a 4mm or 6mm might be a better choice if I could find an improved one.

So, looking for a top quality turret IP camera with a lens above 2.8 and better performance. Any recommendations?

 

[TonyR]

I suggest this ==>> EmpireTech IPC-T54IR-AS-S3 1/1.8" CMOS New Look 4MP IR Fixed-Focal Eyeball Network Camera
Available in 2.8, 3.6 AND 6mm.

It has a properly sized sensor for 4MP; yours is only 1/2.8" and under reduced lighting requires a shower shutter for more light, hence the blur (likely).

FWIW, for less than $30 more here's the vari-focal version ==>> EmpireTech IPC-T54IR-ZE-S3 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP IR Starlight Vari-Focal Turret Security Camera
It's available in black OR white.

 

[Ri22o]

As @wittaj usually says, digital zoom only works in the movies.

You are not going to have good ID/detail results at 80' away from a 2.8mm focal length camera, even with 8mp/4K.

Below is my varifocal driveway cam set to 12mm. (Same as mentioned by TonyR above, but varifocal)

This is me at approx 40' away.


This is a license plate at approx 75' away.


If 12mm can't do it, 2.8mm definitely won't be able to do it.


What is the use case for your cul-de-sac camera? Are you just wanting to monitor the cul-de-sac or are you wanting to get details of cars and people? One camera cannot do it all.

You cannot see everything and still see details. Getting good details does not allow you to see everything; it is a give and take.

This is why a good system will have cameras that complement each other. This is also why a PTZ is a complement to a good, already established system and should not be heavily relied on by itself.

When planning your system and layout start by focusing on choke points and set up fields of view to capture details and give the ability to ID. This means all this camera will be able to do/see is the very narrow scope of its job. You can then deploy a more general overview cam to give context to the details. This overview cam can support one or more of your choke point ID cams.

For instance, as an extreme example. I am deploying this camera. It's only job is to see people walking down the path behind my house. This is what I see 99% of the time when I look at the feed.


However, this is what I see when someone walks down the path, 95' feet away.


I then have these two cameras I can use to get a better idea/context of what they were doing and where they may have come from or gone to.


To put the above path images into perspective. The kill zone is between the green lines and the camera is on the fence at the bottom, center of the picture. You can see someone just entering the KZ and the 3.6mm focal length of this cam gives absolutely no details other than it might be a person.


This is the person in the above wide angle shot, and there is no way you would have been able to tell it was a male, in a red, flannel shirt, with sunglasses, and a receding hairline.


Below are a couple links to some of my threads which you might find helpful. I have learned a lot since joining and try to pay it forward when possible.

This is my on-going "build" thread.

Looking for advice on my install locations.

After posting my thread on where/whether to install the 4K-X I realized I may need to adjust the locations of some of my cameras and with Andy's sale coming up I wanted to get some opinions so I can buy any new hardware I may need. A little about where I live: My street is lit primarily by...

ipcamtalk.com

This is one I put together with images from my journey showing the differences between focal lengths, install heights, changing fields of view, etc.

"I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere to see everything..." - This is why you need specific FOVs with purposeful focal lengths.

I have gained a lot of knowledge since I signed up and wanted to share my experience and examples of improvements and changes for others who are coming from a "I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere to see everything" system mentality. My ongoing "build/looking for advice" thread can be found here...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[wittaj]

All good stuff above!

One camera cannot be the be all/see all. Each camera is specifically selected for a goal in mind and the correct camera for that goal. A 2.8mm camera is the right choice for overview or within 15 feet of the camera. At 80 feet, a different camera is needed.

Do not chase MP. Sometimes 2MP is more than enough. Those zoom in shots @Ri22o provided of people on the sidewalk are from a 2MP camera. Your 8MP camera DIGITAL zoom at 95 feet away would never get close to that quality.

See this thread for the commonly recommended cameras (along with Amazon links) based on distance to IDENTIFY that represent the overall best value in terms of price and performance day and night.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

 

[Peeper]

This is really helpful.

I had considered the camera below, but after learning more, it seems a 1/2.8 sensor on a 4k camera is a poor match?

Amcrest 4K Optical Zoom IP Camera, Varifocal 8MP Outdoor POE Camera Turret, Security Camera, 2.7mm~13.5mm Lens, IP67 Weatherproof, MicroSD Recording (IP8M-VT2879EW-AI)

So the 4mp with 1 / 1.8 sensor would provide better performance?

empiretech01.com/products/empiretech-ipc-t54ir-ze-s3-1-1-8-cmos-4mp-ir-starlight-vari-focal-turret-security-camera?variant=46950104498461

Here is a bit more detail:

- one of the existing cameras mounted on the column is fine. Provides a good "panoramic" view of the entire street and a bit more. (Although I don't mind upgrading it either.)

- I want to upgrade a 2nd camera to tighter focus on the central portion of the street and cul-de-sac. No need for panorama. I am not expecting LPR from this camera, just a better ability to capture details from vehicles that are transiting. Like the landscape truck door sign.

- In the future, I will add the -12 camera for LPR. That will have to be mounted differently due to the length of the camera, but I can work on that. Will use Blueiris or Synology DVA1622.

So, 3 applications, 3 different cameras. It seems for an extra $30 I should go with vari-focal, and maybe use it in various other camera locations to evaluate any change to FOV for those existing cameras. If I am pleased with performance, I could potentially change the other turret cam to the same model, and bring it back to a wider view.

I will confess I have been chasing MP when I should provide more focus on FOV.

 

[wittaj]

Chasing MP is a common mistake - most of us have been there LOL. And then companies jump on that opportunity to then sell higher MP on sensors designed for lower MP to keep the cost down, and then you get a cheap camera that performs poorly at night.

Yes that varifocal will outperform your existing camera day and night. And like you said, you can then use it to test other areas as well.

Here is a recent example someone posted with an 8MP on the 1/2.8" sensor versus 8MP on the proper sized sensor (1/1.2" sensor) - which image looks better to you?

Of more importance is that the top picture is default settings, so a horribly slow shutter of maybe 1/12 so any motion would be a blur and would look like your existing cameras. The 2nd picture is a 1/100 shutter and will get a clean capture. The faster the shutter speed, the more light that is needed. That bottom picture at 1/100 shutter is impressive. If the top camera was set to a 1/100 shutter it would be a very dark image.


Almost any camera can do well in the daytime with enough light, even cameras that are 8MP put on a sensor designed for 2MP. But keep in mind that usually the processor and other stuff are still designed around 2MP, so the camera struggles trying to keep up with 8MP worth of data.

So buying an 8MP camera on the same sensor as the 2MP processor means that the processor is potentially working 4 times as hard for the 8MP camera. These are the types of cameras the consumer grade sells.

 

[Ri22o]

Here is a recent example

Your photos didn't post.

 

[Ri22o]

This is really helpful.

I had considered the camera below, but after learning more, it seems a 1/2.8 sensor on a 4k camera is a poor match?

Amcrest 4K Optical Zoom IP Camera, Varifocal 8MP Outdoor POE Camera Turret, Security Camera, 2.7mm~13.5mm Lens, IP67 Weatherproof, MicroSD Recording (IP8M-VT2879EW-AI)

So the 4mp with 1 / 1.8 sensor would provide better performance?

empiretech01.com/products/empiretech-ipc-t54ir-ze-s3-1-1-8-cmos-4mp-ir-starlight-vari-focal-turret-security-camera?variant=46950104498461

Here is a bit more detail:

- one of the existing cameras mounted on the column is fine. Provides a good "panoramic" view of the entire street and a bit more. (Although I don't mind upgrading it either.)

- I want to upgrade a 2nd camera to tighter focus on the central portion of the street and cul-de-sac. No need for panorama. I am not expecting LPR from this camera, just a better ability to capture details from vehicles that are transiting. Like the landscape truck door sign.

- In the future, I will add the -12 camera for LPR. That will have to be mounted differently due to the length of the camera, but I can work on that. Will use Blueiris or Synology DVA1622.

So, 3 applications, 3 different cameras. It seems for an extra $30 I should go with vari-focal, and maybe use it in various other camera locations to evaluate any change to FOV for those existing cameras. If I am pleased with performance, I could potentially change the other turret cam to the same model, and bring it back to a wider view.

I will confess I have been chasing MP when I should provide more focus on FOV.

One column with an overview and another focused on the entry/exit choke point would definitely be a lot more ideal. This could be a good use for the 54IR-ZE as long as 12mm is enough.

 

[wittaj]

Weird I see them on my end. Try again:

8MP on 1/2.8" sensor at default settings



8MP on 1/1.2" sensor at 1/100 shutter

 

[Peeper]

Regarding the 8MP on 1/1.2" sensor,

does any make that camera in a turret form factor with varifocal lens? I don't recall seeing any?

 

[wittaj]

Unfortunately not unless you go to PTZ that starts at $2K

That is why the 4MP is still the overall preferred choice.

 

[Peeper]

I ordered the 4MP turret camera suggested, varifocal version.

Now I am contemplating an upgrade to the other camera which faces the street. But what to choose? 2.8mm lens is OK but I would like improved performance.

I could order the same 4MP camera except with fixed lens. Or, does anyone make a turret form factor with 8MP and 1/1.2" sensor?

 

[Ri22o]

The Color4K-T is a 4K/8MP on 1/1.2". It does not see IR though and relies on visible light, so you need to make sure you have enough light for it to see at night.