Consumer based wireless mesh systems

[c hris527]

Hey all,
Bringing this up because as home systems are ditching the either-net cables, the wireless demands are rising. Just over a year ago I helped a local Museum with a dead wireless issue. Their Spectrum gear was in the basement and not cutting it anymore. They ended up buying a Netgear Nighthawk system (3 pack) but could not get it configured. One of the board members who happens to be a customer of mine asked if I could help. I Volunteered my time and after creating a account (UGG) and doing some testing, all three floors had rocking wifi with 2 of the 3 nodes. That was well over a year ago and last time I knew they were very pleased with the Netgear stuff. I,m looking for opinions or experiences with consumer based mesh systems, setup ease, longevity, and issues encountered. Keep in mind this is for mom and pop and not business based gear,nor camera stuff.

 

[factor01]

home systems are ditching the either-net cables

They are doing this because most home builders in America haven't embraced or realized in importance of whole home network wiring. Also no one wants to retrofit old homes from the fifties. Plus the average consumer has no real knowledge of how to network their Home or Business with Cat 6 or fiber. However wire/fiber is still the king of speed.

Their Spectrum gear was in the basement

That's the issue right it never was going to cut it. It was a ability they didn't have to do it correctly or had funds to hire someone. It why they bought consumer grade equipment. They just don't have the knowledge. As its easily $90+ per hour to hire someone. Wiring and using good gear could cost thousands. I think it was very great that you helped them.

opinions or experiences with consumer based mesh systems

You can get good prosumer and consumer grade equipment from most popular brands.
Unifi used to be the King of this line but they went the way of Apple and all there stuff is very expensive. There stuff runs well but they have been transitioning to the Pro market for years now.
TP link Omada is one you hear alot now. They also have consumer and business lines. Omada was TP link option to take the old abandon prosumer market from Unifi. They have Mesh consumer kits.
Netgear still makes good stuff as well.
Mikrotik is a great brand but I would not say its easy to setup.
Linksys is owned by Cisco. They to have a Mesh kit.
ASUS is a good brand as well.
Engenius is not bad either.
I wouldn't buy anything google or amazon based (they like to think they invented it).

Keep in mind Mesh is a marketing thing most current access points all have "mesh" and all do roaming as well now. Also just like Zigbee and Thread are mesh technologies. Its just more than a single connection between access points.

I currently run TPlink Omada but I have a wired and fiber backbone. I also run Unifi at my Church and had Unifi at home before Omada.

I would stick to a brand you know more than anything. Mainly since it is most likely you who will be tech support.

longevity

Also keep in mind most any IT based solution will be ancient in 5 years. Most larger IT shops replace all there gear every 5 years. Network gear can and will last longer. As time goes on features will be lost and replaced by new tech. Its something even consumers should consider.

I most likely was off topic some but most think real simple networking is not that achievable in the home, consumer, or Mom and Pop as you called it. However it is if you just plan it out and run some wire as well..

Hope that helps.

 

[c hris527]

They are doing this because most home builders in America haven't embraced or realized in importance of whole home network wiring. Also no one wants to retrofit old homes from the fifties. Plus the average consumer has no real knowledge of how to network their Home or Business with Cat 6 or fiber. However wire/fiber is still the king of speed.


That's the issue right it never was going to cut it. It was a ability they didn't have to do it correctly or had funds to hire someone. It why they bought consumer grade equipment. They just don't have the knowledge. As its easily $90+ per hour to hire someone. Wiring and using good gear could cost thousands. I think it was very great that you helped them.


You can get good prosumer and consumer grade equipment from most popular brands.
Unifi used to be the King of this line but they went the way of Apple and all there stuff is very expensive. There stuff runs well but they have been transitioning to the Pro market for years now.
TP link Omada is one you hear alot now. They also have consumer and business lines. Omada was TP link option to take the old abandon prosumer market from Unifi. They have Mesh consumer kits.
Netgear still makes good stuff as well.
Mikrotik is a great brand but I would not say its easy to setup.
Linksys is owned by Cisco. They to have a Mesh kit.
ASUS is a good brand as well.
Engenius is not bad either.
I wouldn't buy anything google or amazon based (they like to think they invented it).

Keep in mind Mesh is a marketing thing most current access points all have "mesh" and all do roaming as well now. Also just like Zigbee and Thread are mesh technologies. Its just more than a single connection between access points.

I currently run TPlink Omada but I have a wired and fiber backbone. I also run Unifi at my Church and had Unifi at home before Omada.

I would stick to a brand you know more than anything. Mainly since it is most likely you who will be tech support.



Also keep in mind most any IT based solution will be ancient in 5 years. Most larger IT shops replace all there gear every 5 years. Network gear can and will last longer. As time goes on features will be lost and replaced by new tech. Its something even consumers should consider.

I most likely was off topic some but most think real simple networking is not that achievable in the home, consumer, or Mom and Pop as you called it. However it is if you just plan it out and run some wire as well..

Hope that helps.

Nice reply...Thanks
Glad you did not have any nightmare scenario's .. That being said, A lot of the older houses that were built like brick shit houses have really solid walls and seem to have the most issues. I have talked to builders..a few of them and they still have no plans of pre wiring unless specked out by the owner...they think wireless will do everything. Seems the netgear stuff works well so far, have set up 2 of them now. Mikrotik ..hmm never heard of them but my days of staying on top of stuff are over, will have to check them.

 

[factor01]

older houses that were built like brick shit houses

for sure I grew up in one.

I have talked to builders..a few of them and they still have no plans

right because being proactive cost money. Also the common consumer has no idea what they would need. I have wired all my homes since 1992. So if in 33 years they can get on board there is no hope...

they think wireless will do everything

They have no idea they are builders not IT.

Mikrotik ..hmm never heard of them

Mikrotik

MikroTik is a Latvian company which was founded in 1996 to develop routers and wireless ISP systems. Real good stuff.

Let me know what you choose and how it goes.

 

[The Automation Guy]

Mesh wireless systems are like WiFi cameras - it's ALWAYS better to go with a wired solution. Of course there are certain situations where it is simply impossible to run a wire where it is needed and therefore there will always be a market for these type of solutions. However on the consumer side of things, WiFi is typically used because it is EASIER, not because it is better.

 

[Snapper30]

One issue with some mesh systems is slower wi-fi speeds if the backhaul/backbone is wireless, and does not have a dedicated wireless channel etc. to sync the nodes. The mesh system will then use some of the bandwidth, which adds to the traffic and reduces what is available to the users.

Purchasing a mesh system with a dedicated wireless backbone solves the issue, or a hard-wired backbone if you can run ethernet between the nodes.

I was considering a mesh system during the Black Friday sales, or maybe adding a second AP in the house for the regular LAN (internet not cams). Decided to install a proper wired network instead. The current network is a mix of CAT5 the builder installed for a few phone jacks that I repurposed for our LAN, some CAT6 I ran to my office, and wi-fi. Plan is CAT6 and RG6 drops in most rooms so anything with an ethernet port can be connected. Wireless is for devices without an ethernet port. The last hurdle is finding a place for the equipment that has power and meets the WAF (which is the hardest part).

 

[c hris527]

One issue with some mesh systems is slower wi-fi speeds if the backhaul/backbone is wireless, and does not have a dedicated wireless channel etc. to sync the nodes. The mesh system will then use some of the bandwidth, which adds to the traffic and reduces what is available to the users.

Purchasing a mesh system with a dedicated wireless backbone solves the issue, or a hard-wired backbone if you can run ethernet between the nodes.

I was considering a mesh system during the Black Friday sales, or maybe adding a second AP in the house for the regular LAN (internet not cams). Decided to install a proper wired network instead. The current network is a mix of CAT5 the builder installed for a few phone jacks that I repurposed for our LAN, some CAT6 I ran to my office, and wi-fi. Plan is CAT6 and RG6 drops in most rooms so anything with an ethernet port can be connected. Wireless is for devices without an ethernet port. The last hurdle is finding a place for the equipment that has power and meets the WAF (which is the hardest part).

I took a look at a few, The Asus systems are all set for back haul with a extra Lan connection on the nodes. Not sure about dedicated wireless channel, good point on that one, will have to check.

 

[pete_c]

I have been a happy camper here with Ruckus AP's. Never had an issue with them.

 

[wittaj]

One issue with some mesh systems is slower wi-fi speeds if the backhaul/backbone is wireless, and does not have a dedicated wireless channel etc. to sync the nodes. The mesh system will then use some of the bandwidth, which adds to the traffic and reduces what is available to the users.

Purchasing a mesh system with a dedicated wireless backbone solves the issue, or a hard-wired backbone if you can run ethernet between the nodes.

I was considering a mesh system during the Black Friday sales, or maybe adding a second AP in the house for the regular LAN (internet not cams). Decided to install a proper wired network instead. The current network is a mix of CAT5 the builder installed for a few phone jacks that I repurposed for our LAN, some CAT6 I ran to my office, and wi-fi. Plan is CAT6 and RG6 drops in most rooms so anything with an ethernet port can be connected. Wireless is for devices without an ethernet port. The last hurdle is finding a place for the equipment that has power and meets the WAF (which is the hardest part).

Exactly this. I recently upgraded my router to the same brand as my older router with the intent of using it as a mesh in the basement.

Hooking up as a wireless mesh and my speeds were slower all the way around, including hooking to that older router - like while in the basement on my phone I literally got faster speeds connecting to the new router on the 2nd floor than the mesh unit a few feet away from me in the basement. Hooking up the old router via wired and the speed of the whole system returned and could actually get faster speeds in the basement connecting to the older router than connecting to the newer router.

Maybe in some instances a wireless mesh or booster may work, but if it can be wired, it is going to be the better route.

 

[TonyR]

The last hurdle is finding a place for the equipment that has power and meets the WAF (which is the hardest part).

I challenge you to find ANY version of WAF in writing...that's because it is NOT available and does not exist. Furthermore, it is ever-changing and is in a contstant state of flux. About the time you think you have it....you do not.

Actually, when you think about it, it's pure genius. Try to grasp this concept for a moment......never commit to anything in writing or captured audio, that way you can always say "No, that's not what I said. I said I prefer the blah-blah, not the yada-yada". The real genius is them knowing how to adopt that concept and method, something that mere mortal men cannot do. We could not get away with it, not for a second.

I admitted defeat years ago.

 

[VorlonFrog]

Closest thing to true WAF was achieved in my home last year. I switched from Asus multi-external-antenna routers with a wired back-haul to Asus XenWifi internal-antenna WiFi6 units with that same wired back-haul. We renovated our home about twenty-six years ago, and at the time, Cat-5e was the best there was. While the house was still in studs, I bought a 1000-foot box from Home Depot, and wired almost every room in the house. It's been great all these years and carries 1G Ethernet just fine.

 

[samplenhold]

I have a two story house built in 2010. All rooms have at least two ethernet ports that go back to a closet in a bedroom where the equipment and connections for the modem/router are located. That is where I have installed my IT rack. The ISP supplied modem/router has WIFI but is about ten years old. Has not been a problem until the daughter and two grandsons moved in with about a bazilion WIFI connected phones, tablets, Xboxes, etc.

So I just installed a Netgear orbi WiFi 7 tri-band mesh system (770 Series). So far this has worked out quite well. Very simple to set up with their app on my iPhone. I had also installed a couple of smart door locks recently and this works out fine. Still have the old ISP supplied WIFI for some older hardware that would be a real bitch to reconfigure, mostly since I don't remember how to do it and am too lazy to figure it out.

 

[factor01]

I have been a happy camper here with Ruckus AP's. Never had an issue with them.

Ruckus is great I hear. Mostly a Enterprise company. Out of reach for most home use. Not that it wont work that last I checked its super expensive. Might find used gear on ebay. For a Business that has a big IT budget I bet it is great.

 

[c hris527]

So Im testing this-->Asus ZENWIFI XD4plus AX1800

I have no back-haul cables yet, So far so good, kinda strange, seems certain devices like the one furthest away from the one in the room..go figure, The Roku's initially crashed with the 2.4 and could not even see the 2.4 after. Next day, they connected fine.
Could have been the firmware update I did on it.


This is my laptop connected on the 5g to the upstairs node, Go figure because I have a node 12 feet from me. This is the actual speed at the client, not the router. In case anyone cares, these speeds are measured at the client.
I feel a bit naked right now bypassing my sonic wall for these tests but so far so good.

 

[factor01]

How close is it to your documented Internet Plan speed?

 

[samplenhold]

Just did some tests with my Netgear ORBI 770. Used my iPhone 16 connected to my Netgear ORBI, to the ATT supplied WIFI router, and my desktop hardwired to the ATT supplied modem:

Connection Ping Download Upload
iPhone/ORBI 19 468 496
iPhone/ATT 19 331 373
Desktop 14 658 814

Just for grins I tried my iPhone connected to cellular. Verizon two bars of 5Guw:

Cell 62 132 0.61

 

[c hris527]

How close is it to your documented Internet Plan speed?

The upload is about what I expect, the download should be more in the 300 range..however Its a LOT faster than my older Asus Router/AP that was getting me about 150 and 15