Excited to join the IP Cam Talk community!

[Sir V Lance]

Hello everyone. Thanks for having me here.

I am reasonably proficient with computers and networks, but I am fairly inexperienced with IP surveillance cameras. After browsing many threads here for about a week, it is clear this forum is a gold mine of information. I am in awe of the expertise here. I am definitely in the right place to learn, seek guidance, and purchase components.

I was using a Uniden 4-camera wireless system from Costco for a few years. Terrible performance, discontinued app support for newer iOS, constant false motion triggers, poor network security... ah hell, you all know this already. I finally took the useless thing behind the barn and shot it. More "suspicious" activity is being reported in the neighborhood than back in the good old days, so it is time to invest in a serious camera system to complement my wired intrusion security.

From my reading here, I have concluded I want to go this route:

• Blue Iris on a dual-NIC PC
• PoE switch
• Eventually 6 or more Dahua cameras from EmpireTech
• Start with 2 PTZ varifocal to experiment and determine ideal locations/needs
• Complement with as many bullet cameras as needed

My priorities are:

• Usable/effective night time performance
• Prefer larger sensors, but ain't chasing megapixels (4MP is fine)
• Mostly outdoor surveillance, but 1 or 2 cameras indoors
• Reliable detection with minimal false alarms
• Capability to view video, control cameras, and receive alerts on phone

A few questions for which I did not find answers searching the threads:

- I ended up with a few Intel NUC NUC11PAHi7 barebone units from a computing array project that was dismantled. I am planning to use one for my dedicated Blue Iris machine. i7-1165G7 4-core 2.8 GHz (up to 4.7 GHz), 32 GB RAM, 4 TB SSD. I know there are cheaper solutions when going with refurbs, but I already have this hardware, so it is a sunk cost, and the small footprint is an advantage because it is very easy to hide away. Considering a max of 7 or 8 4MP cameras, do you think this machine is sufficient?

- Can Blue Iris be run on a headless computer (no monitor/keyboard)? In other words, after initial setup, can all of my viewing, maintenance, config, etc. be done with another computer on the network? If so, is it done with a client-server scenario hosted by Blue Iris, or is remote desktop the method to use?

- I grasp the basic concepts of IVS, detection, perimeters, trip wires, etc. What I am not clear on is how these things function in conjunction with a PTZ camera. Are they configured relative to a specific position of the PTZ, and then it must be left in that position while unattended in order to detect and notify? Is there some sort of "home" position that gets set up so it is easy to return it to the proper location for detection? Or am I overthinking this and it is really only applicable to fixed bullet type cameras?

- Many cameras are available in white or black finishes. Is this purely an aesthetic choice, or are there actually performance benefits (thermal soaking, light reflection, etc.) to one over the other? Is it better to blend cameras in with the environment to be less overt and prevent theft/tampering, or is it preferred to make them stand out to potentially deter nefarious activities?

- I am seeing references to a 5442-S3 camera that is frequently recommended, and I am also seeing mention of the IPC-T54IR-VE-S3. Are these the same cameras? Is there a secret decoder ring somewhere to correlate model numbers, particularly with regard to the units available from EmpireTech which may not be sold by other US distributors?

Sorry for the long-winded post. Thanks in advance for your insight and commentary.

 

[bigredfish]

Welcome

I wouldnt start with a PTZ. Just a standard varifocal. PTZ opens up a lot of other issues/questions

- I grasp the basic concepts of IVS, detection, perimeters, trip wires, etc. What I am not clear on is how these things function in conjunction with a PTZ camera. Are they configured relative to a specific position of the PTZ, - YES each preset has its own IVS rules
and then it must be left in that position while unattended in order to detect and notify? YES But.. you can also direct them to look at other zones with the use of other fixed cameras acting as spotters automagically while you sleep

Is there some sort of "home" position that gets set up so it is easy to return it to the proper location for detection? YES, typically Prest #1 becomes its "Home: or you can otherwise define that as well as how long it takes to return home after activation/tracking
Or am I overthinking this and it is really only applicable to fixed bullet type cameras? Nope, but it can get complicated with multiple PTZs and multiple spotter cams

IPC-T54IR-ZE-S3 is indeed a 5442 series camera. Its the local part number by our preferred seller @EMPIRETECANDY . Andy is a trusted vendor and sells Dahua OEM gear with his name on it
Its a good first camera - Variable focus , which allows you to dial in your scene zoom from 2.7mm-12mm
EmpireTech IPC-T54IR-ZE-S3 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP IR Starlight Vari-focal Tur

Its the same camera as the Dahua part number HDW5442T-ZE

IPC-HDW5442T-ZE - Dahua International

IPC-HDW5442T-ZE

www.dahuasecurity.com

You can have any color, as long as its black or white. No tech spec difference

 

[wittaj]

Welcome

+1 on everything @bigredfish said. A PTZ is great when it is a compliment to an existing fixed camera system. If the PTZ is looking left and a perp comes from the right, then you miss it. And you don't want to have a PTZ on patrol like you see in the movies and on TV. And even then it would miss them. They are only good for so many cycles and you can burn up a PTZ in a few years having it on constant patrol.

To answer your BI questions:

- I ended up with a few Intel NUC NUC11PAHi7 barebone units from a computing array project that was dismantled. I am planning to use one for my dedicated Blue Iris machine. i7-1165G7 4-core 2.8 GHz (up to 4.7 GHz), 32 GB RAM, 4 TB SSD. I know there are cheaper solutions when going with refurbs, but I already have this hardware, so it is a sunk cost, and the small footprint is an advantage because it is very easy to hide away. Considering a max of 7 or 8 4MP cameras, do you think this machine is sufficient?

- Can Blue Iris be run on a headless computer (no monitor/keyboard)? In other words, after initial setup, can all of my viewing, maintenance, config, etc. be done with another computer on the network? If so, is it done with a client-server scenario hosted by Blue Iris, or is remote desktop the method to use?

A NUC is not a preferred system as they are not designed for 24/7 operation. And USB drives are a no-no with surveillance cameras. Now of course some will say a NUC is fine and so are USB drives, but they probably haven't had a purpose or need to find an incident and find that they couldn't keep up.

Yes you can run it headless. Most here have it tucked away and remote desktop is the preferred method to access it.

 

[Keizer]

Welcome!

 

[TonyR]

Welcome to IPCT!

 

[Sir V Lance]

A NUC is not a preferred system as they are not designed for 24/7 operation. And USB drives are a no-no with surveillance cameras. Now of course some will say a NUC is fine and so are USB drives, but they probably haven't had a purpose or need to find an incident and find that they couldn't keep up.

wittaj - Thanks for the response.

To clarify, I have no intention of using USB drives. The 4TB drive I mentioned is an internal 2.5" SATA SSD. I can understand why a USB drive would lack necessary performance.

I was really trying to get a reading on whether the Intel NUC that I cited had the required performance to handle 8 4MP cameras streaming and recording. However, you bring up something I had not considered. I am curious what determines if a PC is capable of 24/7 operation or not. I have an identical NUC set up us as my media steaming server. It is configured to never enter sleep mode, it streams using Kodi several hours a day, and it sends background music to a couple rooms 24/7. It has been running for a couple years and the only time it has ever shut down (restarted technically) is for Windows updates. Is there something about a mini computer based on a laptop chip set that makes it less suitable for continuous operation?

Thanks.

 

[wittaj]

Keep in mind the 2.5" drives have been problematic as well for some people. There was a guy here about a year ago posted issues with CPU pegging at 100% and as we questioned more, it came out it was a NUC with a 2.5" drive. But since you have it available, give it a try.

If you follow the optimizations and do substreams and direct to disc, folks are running 50 cameras on a 4th gen just fine. That could certainly make the NUC a possibility, at least for awhile.

Laptop chipsets are designed for power efficiency over performance, so when they get hot, the CPU is throttled to cool down. And with the non-buffering demands of surveillance cameras, it can cause problems.

Another problem with many NUC is they have no internal cooling, so running non-buffering video 24/7 will induce more heat than a NUC sitting idle most of the day and used for email and surfing the net and a video every once in while (that is buffered as well).

Another thing with using an SSD for this kind of video is you may wear it out really early and then you lost your operating system as well.

SSD HD Failure 2nd time :(

Unfortunately, my main sytem SSD has failed again. It failed april 2022 and I replaced it. What am I doing wrong? It is a Sandisk 240GB SSD. On a Dell Optiplex. I inserted the drive to another computer and also can't get past the windows screen with a loading circle. I have unplugged it a few...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Sir V Lance]

If you follow the optimizations and do substreams and direct to disc, folks are running 50 cameras on a 4th gen just fine. That could certainly make the NUC a possibility, at least for awhile.

Laptop chipsets are designed for power efficiency over performance, so when they get hot, the CPU is throttled to cool down. And with the non-buffering demands of surveillance cameras, it can cause problems.

Another problem with many NUC is they have no internal cooling, so running non-buffering video 24/7 will induce more heat than a NUC sitting idle most of the day and used for email and surfing the net and a video every once in while (that is buffered as well).

Another thing with using an SSD for this kind of video is you may wear it out really early and then you lost your operating system as well.

SSD HD Failure 2nd time :(

Unfortunately, my main sytem SSD has failed again. It failed april 2022 and I replaced it. What am I doing wrong? It is a Sandisk 240GB SSD. On a Dell Optiplex. I inserted the drive to another computer and also can't get past the windows screen with a loading circle. I have unplugged it a few...

ipcamtalk.com

Thanks wittaj.

Substreams and direct to disk were on my radar. What other optimizations should I be aware of?

The NUC model I am using has an active cooling system with a variable speed fan. It also has a 500 GB PCIe system drive where the OS and BI will reside. The 4 TB SATA will just be for video storage. I assume (not always a good thing) that BI can store video direct-to-disk somewhere besides the system boot disk?

Are people tending to use spinning hard drives rather than solid state drives for video recording? I understand the write cycle issue with a SSD, but even so, I would think the low noise and fast write speed of a modern SSD would be preferred over a 7200 RPM spinner.

I will give the NUC a try. It should allow me to get familiar with BI and learn about IP cameras. If it has issues or I outgrow it by expanding the system, there is a place for it behind the barn, right next to the old Uniden junk.

 

[wittaj]

Those are the two big optimization ones.

Yes the drives designed for surveillance cameras are just fine.

Yeah I say give it a try - if it lasts a year, well that was a year later to buy something!

 

[TonyR]

Substreams and direct to disk were on my radar. What other optimizations should I be aware of?

Since that CPU has Intel's Quick Sync Hardware Acceleration, possibly using it BUT....with the addition of sub streams in a past update the use of HA is not preferred and in some instances has caused issues,

I assume (not always a good thing) that BI can store video direct-to-disk somewhere besides the system boot disk?

Yes, including a NAS. For best performance, I would not have the machine writing video clips to the same drive that contains Windows and the Blue Iris program.

Are people tending to use spinning hard drives rather than solid state drives for video recording? I understand the write cycle issue with a SSD, but even so, I would think the low noise and fast write speed of a modern SSD would be preferred over a 7200 RPM spinner.

Yes, video clips are best for a spinner, particularly one designed for video surveillance, because it is purpose-built, including hardware and firmware algorithms, to efficiently perform and better cope with the constant write / seldom read nature of a video surveillance drive.

It is best to put Windows, BI and BI's "db" folder on the SSD and video clips on the spinner, one designed for video surveillance if possible. I also recommend setting up the drive allocations as stated here by @SouthernYankee : My Standard Allocation Post

 

[Sir V Lance]

Yes, video clips are best for a spinner, particularly one designed for video surveillance, because it is purpose-built, including hardware and firmware algorithms, to efficiently perform and better cope with the constant write / seldom read nature of a video surveillance drive.

Thanks TonyR. I was not aware of hard drives designed specifically for video surveillance. I will look into that.

 

[TonyR]

Thanks TonyR. I was not aware of hard drives designed specifically for video surveillance. I will look into that.

Yes, popular are WD Purple or Seagate SkyHawk.