Good (and affordable) starter camera?

[mihalski]

Hello ipcamtalk denizens,

I recently purchased the much maligned Reolink RLC-420 simply because it was cheap on sale and I wanted to try and see what was possible in terms of home security (and automation). A lot of Home Assistant (home automation software) people recommended it as working well.

It's "OK", but I'm not impressed. Having found this place and done some reading I've repeatedly come across the IPC-HDW5231R-Z (now IPC-HDW5231R-ZE) as a recommendation for a good (affordable?) all-round camera with great low-light image quality.

Is this still the best "serious" starter camera or are there cheaper alternatives that are worth looking at? Price does matter, but I would like to experience what I am missing out on so that I can make more informed future decisions.

Currently the price for the IPC-HDW5231R-ZE is about $170USD (that's $250AUD!), compared to $39USD for the RLC-420 ($58AUD). That's a fair discrepancy so it's no surprise that a camera more than 4 times as expensive would be significantly better.

Thank you in advance for any advice.

Regards,
Michal

 

[Barboots]

Is that Andy's price Michal? (Edit: just checked back and that's about what I paid for the previous model mid 2018)

Maybe look at the HDW2231R-ZS if it's still around. They might get down close to US$100 now. Still, the Aussie exchange rate is gonna hurt.

I have a trade account with Rhino if you want to look at some local comparatives. There's nothing I see there that really excites me to buy locally branded products though.

Cheers, Steve
Western Australia

 

[mihalski]

Thanks Steve,

Yes, that's Andy's price..
US $165.53 7% OFF|IPC HDW5231R ZE 2MP WDR IR Eyeball Network Camera IPC HDW5231R ZE ,free DHL shipping-in Surveillance Cameras from Security & Protection on AliExpress

Right now just over $165US but by the time I get to ordering might be $178US

The camera you suggest is currently $122US.
US $122.37 7% OFF|IPC HDW2231R ZS 2MP Starlight IR Eyeball Network Camera 2.7~13.5mm varifocal lens IPC HDW2231R ZS ,free DHL shipping-in Surveillance Cameras from Security & Protection on AliExpress

I'll read up on it to see how it compares.

It's not just the AU exchange rate.. The US prices seem much higher than old forum posts would suggest. I wonder why that is?

Regards,
Michal

 

[mihalski]

Thanks again Steve! I've just been reading the thread at:

Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal

Again courtesy of @EMPIRETECANDY EmpireTech Andy we have a new cam to look over. Its a new model in Dahua's new Lite H265 Series of cam's. Available for purchase here: Aliexpress.com - Online Shopping for Electronics, Fashion, Home & Garden, Toys & Sports, Automobiles and more Price is approx...

ipcamtalk.com

Unless someone has another competitive suggestions this seems like THE camera to get (sans audio) at the moment.

Would that be correct?

Regards,
Michal

 

[Barboots]

Bear in mind that audio is technically illegal here down under anyway.

I submitted some raw (DAV) footage to the PoPo recently and it's going to court. I forgot that one of the feeds has audio. Fortunately the perp doesn't speak! I think it'll slip through to the keeper

I expect you'll buy another cam after this purchase. The item under discussion will surely fit into your overall system somewhere. What are you recording on?

Cheers, Steve

 

[mihalski]

Is it? I was not aware. I know recording phone calls without consent is illegal.

I just purchased Blue Iris today so I'll be using that. I'm more of a Unix guy so I wish it was multi-platform, but I've put it in a VM and we'll see how it goes. The more I try to use the RLC-420 the more disappointing I find it. Seems locked into it's own little world and unwilling to fully co-operate.

Guess I'm ordering a new camera tonight

BTW, given that the network connector water ingress joints seem to be around 22mm in diameter (judging by the Reolink one which appears standard), do I drill a 22mm hole through brick and push the cable and connectors inside the wall? Or is there a better way that's not occurring to me?

Regards,
Michal

 

[aristobrat]

Unless someone has another competitive suggestions this seems like THE camera to get (sans audio) at the moment.

There's a newer "S2" (series 2?) version of the 2231 that looks to do a bit better in low-light:

Review-OEM IPC-T2231T-ZS Ver 2, 2mp Varifocal Starlight Camera

Updated 12/11/19. Edited for clarity. Dahua OEM IPC-T2231T-ZS from EMPIRETECANDY 2MP WDR Turret Varifocal Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon...

ipcamtalk.com

And if you don't need a varifocal, the 5442 series are the first models around here to increase the megapixels (4MP) and do even better than the x231s in low light:
Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+

BTW, given that the network connector water ingress joints seem to be around 22mm in diameter (judging by the Reolink one which appears standard), do I drill a 22mm hole through brick and push the cable and connectors inside the wall? Or is there a better way that's not occurring to me?

If you use a junction box you only have to drill a hole wide enough to get an unterminated ethernet cable through. You can terminate the cable once it's through the wall and in the junction box. The box will have enough room inside to stuff all of the cables. On the Dahua page for each camera there's usually an "Accessories" tab that shows the boxes that work with that particular camera model.

Here's the Dahua page for the 2231 S2:

https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/productDetail/36197

(you may have to click on the link twice to get it to pull up)

On the accessories tab it looks like the PFA130-E is the wall-mount box for this model:

https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/productDetail/17081

 

[mihalski]

Oh damn! Thank you for the heads up.

The S2 certainly seems better.. Unfortunately I see "Sorry, this item is no longer available! " on Andy's store.
Not entirely sure of this means out of stock or something else. But it puts a brake on my purchase.

And do I need varifocal? I ABSOLUTELY... do not know. So I want it to find out

I can see this becoming an expensive "hobby".

Regards,
Michal

 

[mihalski]

Interesting..

Less RAM and more ROM. IR distance less? Unclear. Lower H264 bitrate.. Are you sure this is the right data sheet? a LOT seems different.
This S2 lists as fixed focal.

Thanks for the info on the wall-mount box. I was HOPING they could fit everything inside but it wasn't obvious to me.

Regards,
Michal

 

[aristobrat]

That was the wrong data sheet, sorry about that. I updated the post. Here's the correct link:

https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/productDetail/36197

You can email Andy (kingsecurity2014 at 163.com) or start a forum Conversation with him via his forum profile (@EMPIRETECANDY) and ask about the stock status of the 2231 S2.

And do I need varifocal? I ABSOLUTELY... do not know. So I want it to find out

If you haven't run into it already, IPVM Camera Calculator V3 is a good tool for "seeing" how focal lengths come into play on your property. "Change location" to your address, "Add Camera" to the Google Maps image of your house, "Select Model" to change the camera to a model that you're considering, then position it and play. Drag the person icon around and see what the image looks like. If you choose a varifocal camera model, there should be a slider in the camera area (HFoV) that lets you simulate changing the varifocal lens. If you slide it all the way to the right (i.e. to 2.7mm, but the tool will show it as degrees of view, so 106'), you should get a very wide FOV from the camera but you'll notice that things have to be closer to the camera to get a good ID. As you slide the varifocal bar to the left, the FOV narrows, but the camera is able to ID further away.

Using Dahua's specs (which are optimistic), they say that if you zoom the 2231 S2 wide (2.7mm), it can identify someone you don't know up to 4.4m. If you zoom it in all the way (13.5mm), it can ID someone you don't know up to 15.1m. When you use the tool above it should give you a PPF value for however the lens is currently zoomed. The general recommendation is that a PPF should be 100+ to ID someone you don't know. IMO it can be hard to get a PPF that high with a fixed lens camera, esp one that comes with either a 2.8mm or 3.6mm. This is where varifocals can be cool.... zoom them in tight on an area you want to cover and the PPF can go up quite a bit.

 

[Barboots]

My terminations are pushed through a twenty something millimetre hole into brick. Lower profile and less expensive. My house is rendered so a "change of mind" repair is much the same irrespective of size.

Varifocal has massive benefit as your first cam. It allows you to gain understanding of field of view versus ID distance. I recommend.

Cheers, Steve