Has anyone ever tried a "TVI to IP Camera converter"?

AveryFreeman

AveryFreeman

Getting the hang of it
Jan 24, 2019
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Seattle
Hey, I came across these on ebay looking for a solution for using existing HD-TVI/BNC cameras on an NVR: 1 Channel Video Server 1080P HD (CVI/TVI/AHD) to IP Camera Converter CCTV | eBay

ip-camera-converter.jpg

Anyone ever used one before (or even heard of such a thing)?

I know "regular" BNC to RJ45 baluns do NOT convert the signal from HD-TVI to a digital stream, but it appears that's what these are for.

Kind of expensive at $30 a pop when you can get an 8-Ch DVR for $50 new, but still kinda interesting. Thoughts?
 
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Yes but to be honest why like you said some DVRs not all of them can work as IP cameras. Anyway using a Hikvision for my Hikvision 2mp camera back in the day was kind of needed. However with newer DVR I no longer use them and just use my DVR as a IP cameras.. But if you think that is costly buying one of these might as well just buy a new camera. Unless your camera is like mine with features that are still not normal in zoom ip cameras.. I mean sure my very costly long range IP camera has heater, presets in a bullet format but so far only 2 cameras that I know of right now in bullet format with presets is very costly lol. Both are same but different branding as the Sharpshooter 4.. Anyway here is the Hikvision version of what you are asking about

edit sorry that was the wrong item that was when I was gong TVI to HDMI,, Need to find my other one that was TVI-Ethernet wasn't as costly but still was over the top in price.. Have to find it as I don't remember the model #
 
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Revo2Maxx said:
Yes but to be honest why like you said some DVRs not all of them can work as IP cameras. Anyway using a Hikvision for my Hikvision 2mp camera back in the day was kind of needed. However with newer DVR I no longer use them and just use my DVR as a IP cameras.. But if you think that is costly buying one of these might as well just buy a new camera. Unless your camera is like mine with features that are still not normal in zoom ip cameras.. I mean sure my very costly long range IP camera has heater, presets in a bullet format but so far only 2 cameras that I know of right now in bullet format with presets is very costly lol. Both are same but different branding as the Sharpshooter 4.. Anyway here is the Hikvision version of what you are asking about..
Click to expand...
Yeah, thanks for the info - how do you like using your DVRs as IP cameras vs. the converter? Those are exactly the two solutions I am comparing.

We have 32 cameras at a restaurant we're slowly moving away from, but we need to be able to do it over time because of how much new wiring it will require. They still use the ol' Hikvision DVR for a lot of business stuff.
 
Well there are many different options. My guess is that the TVI to Ethernet might be out in the shed and right now I am to old for the cold to go out and search for it.. But 32cameras. to NVR that is going to cost alot.. I would double check that the recorder can infact be used as a Ip camera, I know my Amcrest ones have no issue letting me connect the cameras to my Amcrest NVRs.. But not all machines let me do that. Like my older TVI only 16ch will but the 3 newer ones from Annke I have not been able to for some odd reason lol.. So sure I could use my older TVI 2mp 16ch DVR but then my 5 and 4mp cameras would have to be changed down to 1080P and it is ok. Bought newer Amcrest Ai machines that I use with my TVI cameras and still have UTC access to my cameras OSD.. Kind of important as they are mostly zoom cameras..

Edit, However if I remember right one down side to my TVI DVR was it would only let me access 1 channel where my Amcrest DVRs I can use all the connected channels so that might be an issue if the 32ch DVR would only output 1 camera..
 
Yeah, the number of channels out from each DVR is exactly the concern I have using DVRs to convert HD-TVI, but since you have hands-on experience, you're giving me exactly what I was hoping to learn. I really appreciate you helping me

If I'm hearing you correctly, some DVRs have a single output feed, others have multiple - some even as many as it has camera inputs. Is that right?

Amcrest 16CH HD-TVI DVR can be used between the camera and the NVR as an HD-TVI feed decoder/transceiver:

(diagram) Old HD-TVI BNC Camera --> Amcrest 16CH DVR ==> New Amcrest (n_CHs?) NVR --> TV

Re: the BNC to IP camera converter is marketed as being like a single-channel DVR used as a decoder. But we have a couple 32-channel Hikvision DVRs (7332-HGHI IIRC) - the DVRs show up as either 4 or 8 channel ONVIF devices (I remember it's >=4) when configuring cameras on Milestone, for example.

I'd rather have a 1-to-1 feed for each BNC camera, but yep, like you said, cost - if an 8-Ch Zosi DVR w/NO HDD is $50 on eBay, and it outputs at least 4-Channels independently, that's still $70 cheaper than the asking price of those $30 single-channel BNC to IP camera converters ($120 for 4 converters at $30/ea). If it outputs all 8 channels as individual feeds, that's $190 less: I figure eight BNC/IP cam converters is 8 x $30 = $240, minus -$50 for cost of 1 DVR, so difference is $190.

Still goddamn $150 at least for 3 DVRs, assuming the Hikvision would be the 4th one feeding 8-Ch to Zoneminder or Frigate or something, but I guess $150 is still cheaper than buying even 1 single new camera --

Explanation: We are done fkn with cheap cameras after seeing the difference between Andy's cams and the TVI ones we were buying originally, so 4-5 years ago when we started buying from him, we decided will only buy straight from Andy whatever tf his best sht is at the time. That means $150+, as high as $250-$275 historically. But, even though an IP cam with 1/1.8mm sensor or larger is basically invaluable compared to cheaper options, we still need an area covered by those 32 cheap Hikvision BNC cameras. I think would still take about 8-12 of them, so perhaps $2,000-3,000. Not real eager to shell that all out at one time.

But anyway, do you have any model numbers of the DVRs you have that worked best for using as a "TVI converter" for your NVR?

Do you think it made any difference your TVI DVR and your NVR are both Amcrest-branded? (did I read that right?)

Is there anything else you had to do, like downsampling (e.g. 1080p to 720p) or reducing frame rate (e.g. turning 30fps down to 15fps) What kind of results did you get, do the cameras look anything like your IP cams, or is it crazy obvious when you see a side-by-side?

We've got Wyze cams all over the property, too, so 1080p/8-15fps is about the standard, until you get to the 5x 8MP Dahua Color 4K-X bullets and 3x 8MP some I forget the name (a 2020 varifocal pandemic special from Andy's amazon store)

OK that's lots of words. Thanks again for getting back to me, have a good one.
 
I agree that a DVR that will accept CVI/TVI/AHD analog cams and provide a RTSP is the way to go.
It looks like you also need a 12VDC @ 1.0A power supply also, and if the existing 12VDC supply for your camera is not big enough to power the camera AND the converter then that's another $10 per camera if a UL-listed one is purchased.
It is also limited to a 2MP camera if that's factor.

A Hikvision or Hikvision OEM DVR will provide a per channel RTSP stream via it's LAN port such as:

Code: 
rtsp:/173.200.91.70:554/Streaming/channels/101 – get the main stream of the 1st channel

rtsp:/173.200.91.70:554/Streaming/channels/201 – get the main stream of the 2nd channel

A Dahua or Dahua-OEM DVR will provide a per channel RTSP stream via it's LAN port such as :

Code: 
rtsp:/192.168.1.105:554/cam/realmonitor?channel=1&subtype=0 – get the main stream of the 1st channel

rtsp:/192.168.1.218:554/cam/realmonitor?channel=2&subtype=0 – get the main stream of the 2nd channel

NOTE: Be sure to place 2 "/" after "RTSP:" as forum software won't allow 2 to be displayed here consecutively.
 
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So I have a few different Amcrest DVRs.. While they are CVI in contrast they are also 4-1 so that means they will work with the CVI, TVI, AHD and CVBS and they work just fine with my TVI format cameras.. Why this might be important for you.. IF your cameras are TVI and have Audio then the Audio don't work in a CVI built DVR.. Only would work in a TVI type DVR.. So take for instance my CVI 8mp and 5mp cameras that I connect to my TVI dvrs using TVI format not that I had to but trying to see if I could get Audio to work it don't Same can be said the other way around so if your cameras are with Audio either by built in mic or from Mic Input into the camera like some of my Mini CVI PTZ are and you wanted the audio to work then the recorder of same family type would be needed. CVI built camera on CVI and CVI built DVR.. For instance. I can't take my CVI branded 4-1 8mp camera with built in Mic and connect to my 4-1 TVI built DVR even using CVI format the audio don't work because the DVR was built as TVI and kind of their way of making the end user to use their cameras if you want audio.. Kind of same idea behind IVS and VCA Dahua VS Hikvision Ai from 1 don't translate to the other even though you can access the camera on your recorder Ai won't has to be same format for that feature to work..

My Amcrest DVRs are AMDV8M16-H5. This is an older 8mp 4-1 Down side for this DVR is that it only support 7fps at 4k. Then for 1080P it does support 30fps.. Then I have an Amcrest 7108-Ai DVR, This is an 8ch Ai with 4 built in Ai channels the rest can work with SMD.. This DVR is 15fps at 4k and again 30fps for 1080P. The last DVR not my Last Amcrest DVR just last one to mention as I have a few older other ones, is a 5108-I3, This is 8ch Ai with only 2 built in Ai channels and others can work with SMD.. This DVR is also 7fps for 4k and 30fps for 1080P. I can run my 4k CVI cameras in my DVR at 4k and load into my Ai NVR as a Ai Camera as one of my Ai NVRs is a Ultra Series 4216E-Ai with 4 built in Ai channels and the rest of the channels can work off Ai from the cameras.. While I do have a lot of Ai cameras these days I also have a lot of Ai channels from different NVRs to fill. As I have the newer not as robust but with better options 4216-E1 that offers 2ch Ai built into the NVR and might be watered down on connected Ai as I have not tested all it has to offer at the max yet.. I will things were rough for me this year with age/health..

So some things to keep in mind all the DVRs are also able to run IP cameras.. Down side doing this is that it needs to pick up that extra power somewhere and does so by Removing the DVRs ability to work as Ai.. But I am mentioning this as a way to move from BNC to IP without having to buy a new recorder.. As it stands lets say with my 8m16-H5 this DVR turning on IP will enable 8 extra channels to run in IP mode. Lets say you fill them channels and you buy another IP camera or 2 later. No issue just in Camera part of the Menu remove one/two of the BNC channels and now the DVR would be 14ch BNC and 10 IP next month remove 2 more and add 2 more IP. In the end it all comes down to what the max Data and as long as you stay under that you could have a 24ch IP recorder without having to buy another recorder... The other 2 work the same way, difference is they are Ai so adding in Ip ability of extra 8ch will remove the Ai built into the DVR.. So this turns the 8ch DVR aka XVR into a 16ch recorder and in the end could be 16ch IP cameras if you wanted.. 8m16-H5 is a dual HDD box and the other 2 are single HDD boxes.. They all offer UTC and work with all my TVI Zoom Bullet Zoom cameras still able to access the OSD to make changes in the cameras menus.. Also able to going from DVR to one of my NVRs as well works just like you were accessing it within the DVRs GUI.. For me this is important as I have cameras with Zoom, Presets and need access to OSD to make some changes in cameras settings.. Mind you I have older TVI cameras from 2016 and some even older then this.. All work flawless in my Amcrest DVRs.. I do have 3 Hikvision OEM DVRs 5mp that I no longer use because they lack the RS-485 that I need and my Amcrest DVRs offer for my older 960h and older PTZ cameras..

No down scaling needed.. What comes in to the DVR is translated to the Amcrest NVR as if it was being access and used on the DVR..

About data info. IT would be like my older 4116E-HS NVR with 80Mbps for connection to the NVR same goes for the DVRs with IP channels enabled you have 80Mbps to work with on all incoming Ip channels total.. So while you could use 8M16-H5 with all 24ch as IP it would need to be under the 80Mbps...
 
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So in this NVR I only have 3 of the channels connected because others are going to different NVR my 5232E-16P from Amcrest as well.. Anyway here are 2 pictures of Boot of the cameras. This NVR is my 4216-E1 Cameras are connected to 5108-i3.. In the first picture you see the Tripwire that I have setup like an intrusion but is a tripwire on my DVR and is acting as IP Ai camera on my Ai NVR, it shows the screen before image comes live. Anyway that camera being older 2mp 10xzoom camera has options that normal zoom IP cameras don't have and so far only 2 of my Very costly Bullet IP cameras offer presets.. The second one is not placed the greatest but there are 2 other cameras that see what this might be missing anyway lol.. But newer camera so image comes on before boot header goes away.. The 10x zoom camera if I waited for image the boot header would be gone and I have posted that FOV in many places even in videos I have made.. But wanted to show TVI over my Amcrest XVR aka DVR that takes 3 channels to my NVR. Access to OSD on NVR same way you would access OSD in the DVRs.. Also 1 thing DVR to NVR has different then IP camera not that many people care is that Snapshots are able to be changed not only in quality but in size, In my case CIF, D1 or 960H and I have mine setup for 960H where with IP camera only option is full size snapshots. So 8mp would be 8mp snapshot or 4mp and so on.. With DVR to NVR access gives options.. For some people they want FULL SIZE images for me not as important. It is only place holder for Events that I have pushed to my phone and plays on my Samsung 21Ultra in small format playback like a mini video so who cares what image size is for me anyway.. Smaller faster equals better for me lol.. However with the last App going from main AVP to AVP2 no longer get the alerts like I used to on AVP where you could choose live, image or Video Now just video option but still old habits are hard to break lol..
 

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There are solutions for using the existing coax cable and upgrading to nvr and new cameras.

E

Thread 'How to Replace Analog system into IP system easily'

These days, many guys asking to upgrade their analog system into IP system, big headache to change the cables. Here are some solutions.

Just need 3 parts can sort out easily.

LR1002, this one only work with dahua ePOE cameras

These two can work with standard poe cameras.
LR1002-1ET
LR1002-1EC

The first option allows a standard PoE ONVIF camera to be used over coax when combined with Dahua’s ePoE switch/head-end along with an LR1002 passive converter and an LR1002-1ET extender.

The second option allows a standard PoE switch to be used over coax when combined with Dahua’s ePoE camera...
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TonyR said:
I agree that a DVR that will accept CVI/TVI/AHD analog cams and provide a RTSP is the way to go.
It looks like you also need a 12VDC @ 1.0A power supply also, and if the existing 12VDC supply for your camera is not big enough to power the camera AND the converter then that's another $10 per camera if a UL-listed one is purchased.
It is also limited to a 2MP camera if that's factor.

A Hikvision or Hikvision OEM DVR will provide a per channel RTSP stream via it's LAN port such as:

Code: 
rtsp:/173.200.91.70:554/Streaming/channels/101 – get the main stream of the 1st channel

rtsp:/173.200.91.70:554/Streaming/channels/201 – get the main stream of the 2nd channel

A Dahua or Dahua-OEM DVR will provide a per channel RTSP stream via it's LAN port such as :

Code: 
rtsp:/192.168.1.105:554/cam/realmonitor?channel=1&subtype=0 – get the main stream of the 1st channel

rtsp:/192.168.1.218:554/cam/realmonitor?channel=2&subtype=0 – get the main stream of the 2nd channel

NOTE: Be sure to place 2 "/" after "RTSP:" as forum software won't allow 2 to be displayed here consecutively.
Click to expand...
Oh OK, I'm loving this: I hadn't even considered RTSP because I haven't worked with it in any meaningful way. Not sure why ONVIF from the Hikvision DVR would only provide 4 or 8 channels if this is the case, but there's nothing wrong with setting up each channel individually if it means not having to buy anything new.
 
dudemaar said:
There are solutions for using the existing coax cable and upgrading to nvr and new cameras.

E

Thread 'How to Replace Analog system into IP system easily'

These days, many guys asking to upgrade their analog system into IP system, big headache to change the cables. Here are some solutions.

Just need 3 parts can sort out easily.

LR1002, this one only work with dahua ePOE cameras

These two can work with standard poe cameras.
LR1002-1ET
LR1002-1EC

The first option allows a standard PoE ONVIF camera to be used over coax when combined with Dahua’s ePoE switch/head-end along with an LR1002 passive converter and an LR1002-1ET extender.

The second option allows a standard PoE switch to be used over coax when combined with Dahua’s ePoE camera...
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Click to expand...

That sounds pretty awesome, got fkn RG59 cables going all over the place, ran most of them within the last decade so feels like just yesterday :wtf:

Edit: Looked into the cost of full solution, and appears to be cost-prohibitive, but thanks for weighing in with more ideas/possibilities
 
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Just be advised that a pair of the Linovision EoC (Ethernet-over-Coax) are $80 a pair (1 transmitter and 1 receiver) so if deployed on a per camera basis that could add up quickly. I would instead look into a way to run Ethernet cable to a few cameras where it's not very difficult and get the Ethernet to that transition point using the EoC adapters. They claim a 100Mbps bandwidth so you could bring perhaps 4 cameras (depending on resolution) via Ethernet to a POE switch and connect that switch to the EoC adapters to use the coax back to the NVR or VMS server. However, that would require power for the remote POE switches. I haven't done this but in theory it should be doable.

A 2MP (1920 x 1080) resolution IP camera requires about 4Mbps of bandwidth.
 
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TonyR said:
Just be advised that a pair of the Linovision EoC (Ethernet-over-Coax) are $80 a pair (1 transmitter and 1 receiver) so if deployed on a per camera basis that could add up quickly. I would instead look into a way to run Ethernet cable to a few cameras where it's not very difficult and get the Ethernet to that transition point using the EoC adapters. They claim a 100Mbps bandwidth so you could bring perhaps 4 cameras (depending on resolution) via Ethernet to a POE switch and connect that switch to the EoC adapters to use the coax back to the NVR or VMS server. However, that would require power for the remote POE switches. I haven't done this but in theory it should be doable.

A 2MP (1920 x 1080) resolution IP camera requires about 4Mbps of bandwidth.
Click to expand...
Is it not much cheaper if you stay with Dahua epoe cameras and NVR?
 
dudemaar said:
Is it not much cheaper if you stay with Dahua epoe cameras and NVR?
Click to expand...
It could be.

Since I'm not the OP I have not researched the prices and alternatives extensively , just observing that it seems trying to avoid replacing the coax with Ethernet by using additional hardware can be pricey and will add additional failure points.

IMO, and I understand this depends on the extent of what would require replacing right off the bat to get even a section going, I would replace a run with Ethernet and install an IP camera systematically until all were done.

However, if I had one very, very long coax run and one camera then that would be a very different story and would likely install a pair of the EoC adapters and an IP camera, at least until it was convenient to go with Ethernet cable.

It's hard to armchair quarterback without actually seeing what's in place, how it's run and knowing available labor strategy and budget numbers. :cool:
 
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dudemaar said:
Agree, 32 cameras on epoe would cost also. OP would need 4 x epoe 8ch switch EmpireTech EPOE-8CH 10-Port Unmanaged Switch with 8-Port ePoE , 32 x EmpireTech IPC-T54IR-AS-S3 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP IR Fixed-focal Eyeball Netw or EmpireTech IPC-T54IR-ZE-S3 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP IR Starlight 2.7mm–12mm Var and 64 x transmission (which i dont see on Andy's website).

View attachment 210833
Click to expand...
These are all good points, and I appreciate learning more about this stuff, thanks to everyone who replied. This has been a great discussion regarding the options that are available for reviving old gear.

My key takeaway: Is it good we know we can use a certain solution if necessary? Absolutely. Is it always a good idea to use it? No.

I think in my case, using RTSP endpoints for discrete-channel feeds from our current DVR seems like the best solution to avoid getting more stuff. We're sitting on a mountain of gear we've acquired through the years: Single + 18ch 12v PSUs, DC barrel jacks + heat shrink soldering connectors, 1000ft boxes of RG59 and cat5e, 8, 16, 48 port POE switches, Xeon E5 servers, etc.

Buying semi-old stuff on eBay has been a real issue of mine, where I'm fighting a knee-jerk reaction when I see "deals" like 8Ch 5MP DVR "only $50", and think, "it's so cheap, I'd be dumb not to buy it", only later realizing it's a year or two away from e-garbage.

But then, if I hadn't asked I probably wouldn't have even considered the individual RTSP feeds from the DVR, since I've never used them before. Thanks again!
 
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