Hello and help, please.

M

Murdoc

n3wb
Jun 6, 2022
7
4
USA
Hello all,

Long time lurker and new member.
I have wanted a camera system at my home for years. I started researching, read the wiki, learned a lot, got overwhelmed, frustrated with having no attic space and not wanting to run cat5 outside and I guess life happened. I now find myself in a situation where I need a camera system asap .

I apologize in advance for asking to be spoon fed, I've forgotten most of what i learned. I need help.

I'd like to purchase from the ipcamtalk store or from Empiretechandy.

I'd like to set up a system with a poe nvr with probably 2 to 3 cameras to start.

My priority is the front of my home and my thought was a great day time camera and a great
low-light/no-light camera to overlap coverage of the yard and driveway gate.

A LPR camera is also something I want if it would work in my situation.
Is ANPR the same or similar to ALPR? If possible I would like the system to scan and log plates.

I attached a rough sketch. Please ask any questions. I'd greatly appreciate an easy to follow road map. I'm not trying to skirt the time and effort to do the work myself, my situation necessitates getting up and running asap. The best time to plant a tree was 20 uears ago. The second best time is now.

Thank you for your time.
 

Attachments

  • Like
Reactions: mat200
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: looney2ns, mat200 and EMPIRETECANDY
As an Amazon Associate IPCamTalk earns from qualifying purchases.
As an Amazon Associate IPCamTalk earns from qualifying purchases.
Thank you for your reply Flintstone and thanks for posting my sketch. Would that bullet cam and nvr scan and log plates? What are your thoughts for which camera goes where?

Thank you again for your time.
 
Check out this part of the forum on LPR cameras

LPR

Licence Plate Reader cameras
ipcamtalk.com ipcamtalk.com

Some of the guys have a standard condensed version they can drop in, but a LPR camera is a totally different
camera setup and it is dedicated only to plates. At night is shows all black, just plated and headlights.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sebastiantombs
Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well.
  • 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm or the 4K/X - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
  • T5449H-ASE-D2 2.8mm fixed lens - anything within 10 feet of camera where the object would be in a backlit condition at night
  • 5441F-AS-E2 (AKA Boobie cam) or E3241F-AS-M- great choice for a front door camera. The boobie cam can have one lens pointed down for packages
  • T5241H-AS-PV - Great little active deterrence camera with two way talk. Good for anything within 10 feet of camera or as an overview camera
  • 5442 ZE or 5842-ZE- varifocal up to 13mm- distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
  • 5442 Z4E - varifocal up to 32mm - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - varifocal up to 64mm - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
  • 49225 PTZ - great auto-track PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.

You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A wide angle 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

One camera cannot be the be all, see all. Each one is selected for covering a specific area. Most of us here have different brands and types, from fixed cams, to varifocals, to PTZs, each one selected for it's primary purpose and to utilize the strength of that particular camera.

So you will need to identify the distance the camera would be from the activities you want to IDENTIFY on and purchase the correct camera for that distance as an optical zoom.

If you want to see things far away, you need optical zoom, digital zoom only works in the movies and TV...And the optical zoom is done real time - for a varifocal it is a set it and forget it. You cannot go to recorded video and optically zoom in later, at that point it is digital zoom, and the sensors on these cameras are so small which is why digital zoom doesn't work very well after the fact.

Regarding a camera for plates (LPR) - keep in mind that this is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night.

At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my 2MP camera (that is all that is needed for plates):

1642003530269.png
 
As an Amazon Associate IPCamTalk earns from qualifying purchases.
  • Like
Reactions: Old Timer, looney2ns, mat200 and 1 other person
Murdoc said:
got overwhelmed, frustrated with having no attic space and not wanting to run cat5 outside
Click to expand...
More details about the construction / a few pictures could be helpful. Painted conduit doesn't look terrible. If you've got vinyl siding, you may be able to run cables under the siding.

You could trench and put a camera closer to the gate. Since you're in a hurry (reactive to some event, that may not be likely to recur), a battery powered game camera is one quick option. Not as versatile, useful, or secure but hard to beat in terms of simplicity (cellular models also exist).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Flintstone61, sebastiantombs and mat200
Thanks for all the input. The front of the house is single story, wood sided, with about a two foot roof overhang. Looking at it more I could run the cat5e tucked up in the overhang and it would be out of sight and semi protected from the elements. Would that be an acceptable way to run it? If so, would it be better to use the direct burial weatherproof cable?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Flintstone61 and Old Timer
Caution you about just jumping in and buying everything at once. Get ONE good varifocal cam, like the 5442 varifocal turret or bullet. Use it on a test rig as described in the WIKI to see what to expect of different placements BEFORE you run cables and mount it.

Test Rig.JPG

Then you can make informed decisions as to which cams to buy and where to place them.

As far as LPR, it is not something one just jumps into with no cam experience.

maxresdefault.jpg

But check out some of these links:

New to LPR? Considerations Before You Begin

Thought I would throw together a post on my experiences so far with LPR in an effort to help others that are considering running down that rabbit hole. There are some practical considerations you should know about LPR. I am approaching this from the position of using Blue Iris and Plate...
ipcamtalk.com ipcamtalk.com

LPR Case Study: Scoping, Planning, Proof of Concept, Installation, & Results

Introduction This thread is about my journey into LPR (License Plate Recognition) after having about 18 months of experience with IP cams and having quite a bit of my system finished. I am not an expert on LPR, or IP cameras either. But I have spent a lot of time working with my system and...
ipcamtalk.com ipcamtalk.com

Also, the 5241 Z12E cam that most use for LPR does not automatically log plates. There are services and other ways to get that info from that cam.
 
  • Like
Reactions: looney2ns, Sphinxicus, Flintstone61 and 1 other person
I can't answer much about Logging plates.
I usually go off half cocked and buy stuff and then come back i find out that I was wrong.
But the cameras I listed above this AM,,,, I own 3 out of the 4 and they work great.
Log Plates.jpg
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: bigredfish, looney2ns and samplenhold
I've been reading the LPR forum and most of what I've found is using BI. The linked nvr references ANPR AI, is that the same as ALPR? If so, would it need a camera with ANPR/ALPR AI to work as intended? Anyone have experience with LPR using nvr that scans and logs plates? I could post the question in the LPR forum if it would be more appropriate. Thanks again for your time and patience
 
ANPR and ALPR are systems that can read the plates and log them (Automated Number Plate Recognition and Automated License Plate Reader)

Plenty of folks, both NVR and BI users, as well as users with just stand alone cameras, use a camera like the 5241-Z12E to capture the plates by video and then manually read the plates if needed, or subscribe to a 3rd party application to do the actual reading.

Some have found that the ALPR type systems of cameras/NVRs in the USA are not very accurate, and in fact one brand eliminated the ability to read USA plates with a firmware update (one of many reasons why we say never update the firmware, but that is another story).
 
  • Like
Reactions: looney2ns
I have experience with LPR and ALPR tech, but in a different setting. I'm trying to apply it to my situation, which if foreign to me. This is the best platform I found to do so. Generally I would spend months researching a project like this, then moths finding the best deals. I don't have that luxury now. I know from reading this forum that what I'm asking for is not the norm here, usually it's teach a man to fish and I subscribe to that. I am asking for a specific roadmap of how to accomplish what I need in the shortist time possible. I know I'm being vague, it's on purpose and I apologize. I'm asking those that know what I need to know to help me cut all the corners that you usually don't, to help me protect what is most important to me. I can manually review plates, but if I can automate it it would be best. I understand a dedicated lpr camera. Please, I'm wired to do this the right way, but my concerns don't afford me the luxury.

Thanks again for your time.
 
We have given you all the best recommendations here.

I gave you the recommendations for best camera based on distance you want to IDENTIFY and @Flintstone61 gave you the Amazon links to these cameras sold by a trusted member here @EMPIRETECANDY and @samplenhold provided you links to his threads that summarize how he went about LPR after taking and listening to all the great advice from trusted members here.

Most here have found that using the Z12E for LPR and then using a 3rd party reader like OPENALPR with the logger utility a member created here or the Blue Iris custom model that a member here created to read plates is far superior than the ANPR built into these cameras, especially for USA plates - it is proprietary and hard to manage. And of course YMMV.

But if you have experience with ANPR/ALPR from another setting and liked it, it is the same implementation just at a house.

You aren't going to get much better info than has already been presented to you in this thread.

Now it is time for you to decide if you want to trust the info provided to you based on the lessons learned from the members here or if you wanna learn them the hard way LOL.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Old Timer, Griswalduk, looney2ns and 3 others
RTFM
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: looney2ns
Murdoc said:
I've been reading the LPR forum and most of what I've found is using BI. The linked nvr references ANPR AI, is that the same as ALPR? If so, would it need a camera with ANPR/ALPR AI to work as intended? Anyone have experience with LPR using nvr that scans and logs plates? I could post the question in the LPR forum if it would be more appropriate. Thanks again for your time and patience
Click to expand...
There are NVR/cam combinations that people use that get the plate info from the cam and place it in a database in the NVR. As I have not used them, I really do not know anything more about it but do remember posts here comparing Hikvision and Dahua versions.

Also I think that @Wildcat_1 has done some testing of these. Maybe he or @bigredfish can chime in?

Posting the question in the LPR forum, and looking through that forum for threads that touch upon that would be a good start.
 
  • Like
Reactions: looney2ns and sebastiantombs
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom