I am treating this as a living document and will update it with new captures, information, etc from time to time since the journey and knowledge gained never ends. Even though it was originally posted in May of 2023, it is still very much relevant.
I have gained a lot of knowledge since I signed up and wanted to share my experience and examples of improvements and changes for others who are coming from a "I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere to see everything" system mentality.
My ongoing "build/looking for advice" thread can be found here.
The post includes the original Dahua model numbers, but I have edited to add the updated Loryta/Empiretech model number and link where necessary.
Immediately below are images from my Lorex system with 2.8mm cameras. I had a mix of 1080p analogs and 2K POEs. I thought I had a good system because I could see a lot. I even got defensive when I first came here asking for opinions on what models to replace them with when I was told they were all too high, wrong focal length, etc. (Not to mention they were all on defaults and my night captures were less than usable...)
Refer back to these images when looking at the recent captures down below with some of the changes I have made while working on righting my wrongs and changing FOVs, focal lengths, install locations, and install heights to increase the likelihood of better face captures which will lead to being able to ID someone.
This was my coverage of the back gate with a T5442T-ZE (12mm) (T54IR-ZE) on the 2nd floor soffit. The install height was 20-22' with a horizontal distance to the gate of 85'.
I was definitely not going to be able to ID anyone, especially at night.
This is the replacement B5442E-Z4E (32mm) (B54IR-Z4E) at the same 2nd floor soffit install location (L) and after I moved it down to the deck roof (R). The new distance is 11' install height with a horizontal distance of 65'.
The extra zoom helped immensely, but the image on the right has a better chance of ID.
I have an "alley" between my fence and my neighbor's that was created when he installed his fence closer to his house than on the property line. I wanted to be able to watch people who use this to get to the walking path behind our houses. I had already chose the T5442T-ZE (T54IR-ZE) for this location but wanted to show the difference between a 2.7mm overview and a tight 12mm on the alley opening. Install height is 11' with a horizontal distance of 33'.
This is the same T5442T-ZE (T54IR-ZE) as above, but zoomed in to 12mm.
The chance of an ID shot has been increased.
This was my front yard camera mounted on the 2nd floor soffit, overlooking the alley area shown above. Install height is 20-22'. This was a T5442T-ZE (T54IR-ZE) at approximately 3.6mm.
It allowed me to see the yard, street, sidewalk, etc but I never would have been able to ID anyone.
This is the new FOV with a fixed T5442TM-AS 2.8mm (T54IR-AS). The focal length is shorter than when this view was on the 2nd floor soffit, but the lower mounting height of 7' gives a better angle for potential ID.
This is the 3541F-AS-M (2.8mm) installed at my front door. With these three shots you can tell the difference a lower height makes compared to the fixed T5442TM-AS 3.6mm (T54IR-AS) above the front door (L) and the lower front yard FOV (R).
Similar to my back gate, this was the overview of my back yard from the 2nd floor soffit (20-22' height) with a fixed T5442TM-AS 2.8mm (T54IR-AS) (L) and then a 3.6mm (R). I have since lowered this view down to the deck roof and added other cameras to fill in gaps, but the significant difference in ID-ability from a 2.8mm to the 3.6mm is huge. I lost the view of the rest of the yard, but a camera that sees everything can't necessarily ID someone and a camera meant to ID someone won't necessarily see everything.
Originally I had wanted an overview of the front yard and driveway (before I knew any better).
I had installed a fixed T5442TM-AS (3.6mm) (T54IR-AS) on the 2nd floor soffit. I was able to see a lot with it, but after I received the 4K-X (3.6mm) (Color4K-X) and played with it on the lower soffit I realized I could see about the same items at distance but had a much closer view of the driveway and anyone who might be on it. Going from a 20-22' install height to 11' was a big change and not a big change, all at the same time.
This was one of my driveway cameras. It was a varifocal T5442T-ZE (5mm) (T54IR-ZE) and its purpose was for door checkers. I could have left it and probably been fine, but ideally you would want it lower than the 11' height it was mounted.
With the 4K-X (3.6mm) (Color4K-X) being used as a general driveway overview and to capture color details I have T5442T-ZEs (T54IR-ZE) installed under both of the garage door headers at approx. 7' (I moved the one posted above down) and zoomed all of the way in to 12mm. The longer focal length and shallower angle gives good detail of faces as people walk up the driveway. The 4K-X (Color4K-X) would not have been ideal for ID in this situation.
And to show the difference between a fixed T5442TM-AS 2.8mm (T54IR-AS) and a varifocal T5442T-ZE at 12mm (T54IR-ZE) I have these shots. These are new installs placed with information I have learned and gained from my journey above.
For reference, both of the T5442T-ZE (T54IR-ZE) cams below are installed above the guy kneeling on the deck, near the post, and pointed respectively.
A "I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere to see everything" mentality does not work here for ID. You can see the two men, but you can't see who they are. I have the 2.8mm strictly for overview of the deck and the 12mm views for ID of someone coming up the step or leaving the porch/house.
To further drive the point of DORI distances and show some captures from the lessons learned and changes made above, below are various captures with distances and focal lengths noted.
T54IR-AS in 2.8mm at 11ft
T54IR-ZE set to 12mm:
40ft to the license plate.
75ft to the license plate.
40ft to the sidewalk.
25ft
18ft
This portion of coverage is an ongoing project, but helps to show you cannot see everything and still see details. Getting good details does not allow you to see everything; it is a give and take.
My property backs up to a walking path and one evening there was an altercation between a man and his wife. After this happened I wanted to make sure I had better coverage in this area. I started with a fixed T5442TM-AS 2.8mm (T54IR-AS) mounted on the fence, near the gate, covering the easement/path area, but was not happy with the lack of detail. It provided good coverage for anyone at the gate, but not much further out and on the path.
This is when "getting good details does not allow you to see everything" came into play. I deployed a B52IR-Z12E-S2 to zoom in and give me focus on the people on the path. What does it see 99% of the day? Trees. Nothing but trees. What does it see the other 1% of the time when someone walks by? All the details.
Using the easement T54IR-AS, and the Color4K-T180 weathercam mounted on the roof, I am able to get a better idea/context of what they were doing and where they may have come from. Individually, they each offer information, but together they give a better picture of the situation. In the "I want a camera to see everything..." image below, there is no way you would have been able to tell it was a male, in a red, flannel shirt, with sunglasses, and a receding hairline.
I have gained a lot of knowledge since I signed up and wanted to share my experience and examples of improvements and changes for others who are coming from a "I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere to see everything" system mentality.
My ongoing "build/looking for advice" thread can be found here.
The post includes the original Dahua model numbers, but I have edited to add the updated Loryta/Empiretech model number and link where necessary.
Immediately below are images from my Lorex system with 2.8mm cameras. I had a mix of 1080p analogs and 2K POEs. I thought I had a good system because I could see a lot. I even got defensive when I first came here asking for opinions on what models to replace them with when I was told they were all too high, wrong focal length, etc. (Not to mention they were all on defaults and my night captures were less than usable...)
Refer back to these images when looking at the recent captures down below with some of the changes I have made while working on righting my wrongs and changing FOVs, focal lengths, install locations, and install heights to increase the likelihood of better face captures which will lead to being able to ID someone.
This was my coverage of the back gate with a T5442T-ZE (12mm) (T54IR-ZE) on the 2nd floor soffit. The install height was 20-22' with a horizontal distance to the gate of 85'.
I was definitely not going to be able to ID anyone, especially at night.
This is the replacement B5442E-Z4E (32mm) (B54IR-Z4E) at the same 2nd floor soffit install location (L) and after I moved it down to the deck roof (R). The new distance is 11' install height with a horizontal distance of 65'.
The extra zoom helped immensely, but the image on the right has a better chance of ID.
I have an "alley" between my fence and my neighbor's that was created when he installed his fence closer to his house than on the property line. I wanted to be able to watch people who use this to get to the walking path behind our houses. I had already chose the T5442T-ZE (T54IR-ZE) for this location but wanted to show the difference between a 2.7mm overview and a tight 12mm on the alley opening. Install height is 11' with a horizontal distance of 33'.
This is the same T5442T-ZE (T54IR-ZE) as above, but zoomed in to 12mm.
The chance of an ID shot has been increased.
This was my front yard camera mounted on the 2nd floor soffit, overlooking the alley area shown above. Install height is 20-22'. This was a T5442T-ZE (T54IR-ZE) at approximately 3.6mm.
It allowed me to see the yard, street, sidewalk, etc but I never would have been able to ID anyone.
This is the new FOV with a fixed T5442TM-AS 2.8mm (T54IR-AS). The focal length is shorter than when this view was on the 2nd floor soffit, but the lower mounting height of 7' gives a better angle for potential ID.
This is the 3541F-AS-M (2.8mm) installed at my front door. With these three shots you can tell the difference a lower height makes compared to the fixed T5442TM-AS 3.6mm (T54IR-AS) above the front door (L) and the lower front yard FOV (R).
Similar to my back gate, this was the overview of my back yard from the 2nd floor soffit (20-22' height) with a fixed T5442TM-AS 2.8mm (T54IR-AS) (L) and then a 3.6mm (R). I have since lowered this view down to the deck roof and added other cameras to fill in gaps, but the significant difference in ID-ability from a 2.8mm to the 3.6mm is huge. I lost the view of the rest of the yard, but a camera that sees everything can't necessarily ID someone and a camera meant to ID someone won't necessarily see everything.
Originally I had wanted an overview of the front yard and driveway (before I knew any better).
I had installed a fixed T5442TM-AS (3.6mm) (T54IR-AS) on the 2nd floor soffit. I was able to see a lot with it, but after I received the 4K-X (3.6mm) (Color4K-X) and played with it on the lower soffit I realized I could see about the same items at distance but had a much closer view of the driveway and anyone who might be on it. Going from a 20-22' install height to 11' was a big change and not a big change, all at the same time.
This was one of my driveway cameras. It was a varifocal T5442T-ZE (5mm) (T54IR-ZE) and its purpose was for door checkers. I could have left it and probably been fine, but ideally you would want it lower than the 11' height it was mounted.
With the 4K-X (3.6mm) (Color4K-X) being used as a general driveway overview and to capture color details I have T5442T-ZEs (T54IR-ZE) installed under both of the garage door headers at approx. 7' (I moved the one posted above down) and zoomed all of the way in to 12mm. The longer focal length and shallower angle gives good detail of faces as people walk up the driveway. The 4K-X (Color4K-X) would not have been ideal for ID in this situation.
And to show the difference between a fixed T5442TM-AS 2.8mm (T54IR-AS) and a varifocal T5442T-ZE at 12mm (T54IR-ZE) I have these shots. These are new installs placed with information I have learned and gained from my journey above.
For reference, both of the T5442T-ZE (T54IR-ZE) cams below are installed above the guy kneeling on the deck, near the post, and pointed respectively.
A "I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere to see everything" mentality does not work here for ID. You can see the two men, but you can't see who they are. I have the 2.8mm strictly for overview of the deck and the 12mm views for ID of someone coming up the step or leaving the porch/house.
To further drive the point of DORI distances and show some captures from the lessons learned and changes made above, below are various captures with distances and focal lengths noted.
T54IR-AS in 2.8mm at 11ft
T54IR-ZE set to 12mm:
40ft to the license plate.
75ft to the license plate.
40ft to the sidewalk.
25ft
18ft
This portion of coverage is an ongoing project, but helps to show you cannot see everything and still see details. Getting good details does not allow you to see everything; it is a give and take.
My property backs up to a walking path and one evening there was an altercation between a man and his wife. After this happened I wanted to make sure I had better coverage in this area. I started with a fixed T5442TM-AS 2.8mm (T54IR-AS) mounted on the fence, near the gate, covering the easement/path area, but was not happy with the lack of detail. It provided good coverage for anyone at the gate, but not much further out and on the path.
This is when "getting good details does not allow you to see everything" came into play. I deployed a B52IR-Z12E-S2 to zoom in and give me focus on the people on the path. What does it see 99% of the day? Trees. Nothing but trees. What does it see the other 1% of the time when someone walks by? All the details.
Using the easement T54IR-AS, and the Color4K-T180 weathercam mounted on the roof, I am able to get a better idea/context of what they were doing and where they may have come from. Individually, they each offer information, but together they give a better picture of the situation. In the "I want a camera to see everything..." image below, there is no way you would have been able to tell it was a male, in a red, flannel shirt, with sunglasses, and a receding hairline.
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