Idea for driveway camera

CamFan

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I have a long driveway and I'm thinking of building a pair of columns at the end of it. I want to put a camera in there with an IR illuminator (6-8W) and column light (10 W max).

So I'm looking at running AC power in one conduit and a couple of CAT6 in another.

The wire run will be ~200 ft from my data closet, probably pushing longer.

To save on running 2 conduits, here are my ideas for a single conduit.

1. Run AC power with a optical fiber for data in the same conduit.
2. Run 2-3 CAT6E STP with POE for camera and POE+ (20W) for IR illuminator and an LED light, one spare.

I like option #2 as it doesn't require any fiber optic gear and may not require a permit with the city.

What's the feeling on direct burial CAT6, gel filled or not?
 

SyconsciousAu

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Fiber seems like expensive overkill for that project. If you have enough ports on your PoE Switch or midspan just run Cat 6 out there. You also dont have to trench as deep if you are laying low voltage. Conduit is cheap. Even if you use direct burial cable use conduit as well.
 

lowpro

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I'm somewhat in the middle of the same kind of project. I'm still looking for a right priced 10ft post for a back corner in my backyard. My total run was 100 ft. I ran outdoor romex in the 1" conduit and I ran 2-cat6 cables in a separate 3/4" conduit. My electrician said that code was to bury it 24" deep. I plan on using the power for a led flood light. I probably wouldn't have gone as deep if it was just the cat6.
 

CamFan

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I've abandoned the idea of gel filled as this will be all in conduit and not exposed to the elements.

Do you think you could have easily pulled 3 x cat6 in the 3/4" conduit?
 

SyconsciousAu

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Do you think you could have easily pulled 3 x cat6 in the 3/4" conduit?
Thats 20mm in the metric parlance on a 200 ft run. You will probably fit three cat 6 in there but your pulling tension as you get further away from the house is going to be an issue. Conduit is cheap. Lay 32mm (1.25") and put a pull wire in there as well to give yourself some upgrade potential. Consider duplicating your conduit with an empty conduit with just a pull wire. Lay 2" if you can find it cheap. yes it is more more work / expense in the short term but not having to dig and backfill 60m of trench in the future is worth it. Use cable lube to make the pull a little easier.
 

Q™

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I've abandoned the idea of gel filled as this will be all in conduit and not exposed to the elements...
It has been said that it's not IF conduit will have water intrusion...but WHEN. I would use gel filled inside the conduit.
 

Kawboy12R

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Even in conduit, underground = burial grade wire. Regular wire will definitely last longer when protected in conduit but it's still a failure waiting to happen. Ordered online at a place like Monoprice, gel filled is surprisingly cheap.
 

lowpro

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3-cat6 cables could fit in the 3/4" conduit, but I won't do it. I remember thinking to myself that I should have gotten 1" instead.
 

CamFan

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lowpro, what kind of CAT6 were you running? I'll be going with direct burial extra thick PVC jacket cable. Bigger than the thin jacket stuff I normally use.

Now I feel the super thick PVC jacket will be fine, gel filled won't really do much for me unless I get water ingress at the ends. This jacket will not get compromised on the install. It's always the ends you need to worry about. Both of my cable ends will be dry thru waterproof cord bushings into a sealed j-box.

I've done explosion proof rated system design a past project, I know how to keep things sealed.

Also, my run is on a slope from house to camera, so I'm worried about the gel oozing out at the camera side.
 
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I'm no pro or anything, but I was under the impression that ALL conduit will eventually have water in it...at least from condensation.

Never go with the smallest conduit you can, as pvc conduit is CHEAP, compared to trying to pull through narrow conduit. Avoid 90 degree sweeps where you can....try to plan as few turns as possible, as that is where you will greatly increase your pulling resistance. Of course, always use pressure fitting, not dwv pic fittings (drainage), which have much shorter sockets, and NEVER NEVER use 90's, always sweeps. Gray and white are the same pipe, but gray signifies electric while white signifies water. Primer both pipe and socket, before the correct glue, both pipe and socket.

We actually had to run 850' of conduit with cat5e wire inside to service a remote building....it went underground for most of the distance, but we did have to go over a creek and up a steep hill, so we swept up out of the ground every 200' with LB's at the top of each riser for pulling. Everyone told me it wouldn't work, but it is fine and we run both phones and Internet through it.

Be aware that not all wire is approved for inside conduit...some wire gets rid of it's heat by being exposed to the air or soil. We never pull Romex through conduit....always individual solid wire, just for that reason.

If I have to dig a trench, it gets power, Ethernet, AND water conduit/pipe dropped in it, as it is SO easy to do all three at once...and I change my mind like crazy...."oh, let's put a light there"..."oh, let's put some plants over here"...."hmmm, this would be a GREAT place for a camera, hon......".
 

Kawboy12R

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Running ethernet cable next to AC power cable in a conduit is a no-no for data corruption and power leakage concerns. It's between "Thou Really Should Not" and "Thou Shalt Never" with a very heavy leaning towards "Thou Shalt Never". It's not that the data will automatically get corrupted and you'll instantly fry your network gear and/or electrocute the next unsuspecting tech to touch the ethernet cable trying to figure out why your switch went up in smoke, but those are the possible concerns in the future.

Congrats on getting the 850' run working. Any tricks like using switches as repeaters in the middle? It'll work over the 100m rating in a simple run but after that point it's quite dependent on luck without special help. That would be the longest run of straight twisted pair cable I've heard of working.
 
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Running ethernet cable next to AC power cable in a conduit is a no-no for data corruption and power leakage concerns. It's between "Thou Really Should Not" and "Thou Shalt Never" with a very heavy leaning towards "Thou Shalt Never". It's not that the data will automatically get corrupted and you'll instantly fry your network gear and/or electrocute the next unsuspecting tech to touch the ethernet cable trying to figure out why your switch went up in smoke, but those are the possible concerns in the future.

Congrats on getting the 850' run working. Any tricks like using switches as repeaters in the middle? It'll work over the 100m rating in a simple run but after that point it's quite dependent on luck without special help. That would be the longest run of straight twisted pair cable I've heard of working.

Pretty much, you should never run low voltage, ethernet, etc, pretty much anything inside conduit with line voltage, as you'll get bleed over We don't even run low voltage thermostat wire inside the line voltage conduit to a/c units for that very reason.



My biggest concern in pulling that long of wire (except for it just not transmitting decently) was pulling too hard or kinking the wire, ESPECIALLY over the creek. That is why we jumped up out of the ground every 200' and put an LB, so we could pull only a couple of hundred feet at a time.


Funny story. .. we had monsoons, I mean HEAVY rain day after day, and that creek goes from a trickling brook to a raging river because it drains so much land uphill from us. In order to make sure the conduit was high enough, we had it strapped to a tree limb, but never had gone back and done any decent support to bridge the banks, so that section was simply about 40' of 1" schedule 40 pvc conduit, hanging in the air, resting on the far bank, which is higher than the house side.

Well, I and a employee had gone down to just watch the water run, when we spotted that line trying to float away. Sure enough, the wind had gotten up, the tree limb had broken, and now the conduit was stretched to the limit in a big swoop, bouncing on top the raging torrent of water, just WAITING for a big floating piece of debris to take it out!!! Both ends where it tied into the 1 1/2" conduit were bent over so far they pointed downstream too, ha ha. Talk about panic!! I just saw all of our phones, internet, etc getting ready to take off downstream!!!


With dual screeches of alarm, we both dove for the conduit and began to try to wrestle it back up out of the water and hoist as high above our heads as we could, willing the far end to release from the water. It seemed like it took forever for us to get the better of the fight, but finally the last few feet sprung loose and up out of the water, and there we stood, hands high above our heads, staring wild-eyed at each other, saying, "NOW WHAT????" hahahahha


Finally, we worked our way back to the errant tree and strapped that sucker tight against the trunk, as high as we could reach. Boy, talk about wear your butt out!!! To this day, I don't know why some large piece of debris didn't rip that line out and pull the whole board out of the network box, ha ha. Aaaahhh, good times!
 

Kawboy12R

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Gotta love the drama of saving a near "disaster". You'll never forget that one!
 
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